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  • FIRST POST
    • williduck
    • By williduck 13th Jan 18, 1:09 PM
    • 17Posts
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    williduck
    Made Redundant but Contractors Kept On
    • #1
    • 13th Jan 18, 1:09 PM
    Made Redundant but Contractors Kept On 13th Jan 18 at 1:09 PM
    Hi all

    I’m looking for a bit of advice please regarding refundancy please:

    My wife was made redundant on Thursday, it came as a complete shock - a meeting was put in her diary with her manager on Thursday morning for later that day at which she was told she was being made redundant as of 31st January and to leave the office immediately and don’t return.

    It all doesn’t seem right - where was the consultation, offer of alternative employment etc. But most of all contractors who do the same job as her within the team have been kept on (getting paid at least double).

    As part of consideration she has £250 towards advice of the agreement, however I am looking for thoughts if the process is correct/appropriate.

    Thanks
Page 1
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 13th Jan 18, 1:12 PM
    • 4,384 Posts
    • 7,307 Thanks
    sangie595
    • #2
    • 13th Jan 18, 1:12 PM
    • #2
    • 13th Jan 18, 1:12 PM
    How long has she worked there?

    Contractors are not employees. There are reasons why an employer might want to retain them and make employees redundant, and they are allowed to do that.
    • williduck
    • By williduck 13th Jan 18, 1:24 PM
    • 17 Posts
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    williduck
    • #3
    • 13th Jan 18, 1:24 PM
    • #3
    • 13th Jan 18, 1:24 PM
    She’s worked there over 2.5 Years - started April 2015

    She’s a project manager and was in the middle of delivering a project so there was definitely a role for her.

    If they employ a contractor to deliver the project is that legal?
    • Cheeky_Monkey
    • By Cheeky_Monkey 13th Jan 18, 3:02 PM
    • 1,493 Posts
    • 2,995 Thanks
    Cheeky_Monkey
    • #4
    • 13th Jan 18, 3:02 PM
    • #4
    • 13th Jan 18, 3:02 PM
    Hi all

    I’m looking for a bit of advice please regarding refundancy please:

    My wife was made redundant on Thursday, it came as a complete shock - a meeting was put in her diary with her manager on Thursday morning for later that day at which she was told she was being made redundant as of 31st January and to leave the office immediately and don’t return.

    It all doesn’t seem right - where was the consultation, offer of alternative employment etc. But most of all contractors who do the same job as her within the team have been kept on (getting paid at least double).

    As part of consideration she has £250 towards advice of the agreement, however I am looking for thoughts if the process is correct/appropriate.

    Thanks
    Originally posted by williduck
    Are you absolutely sure she's been made redundant? That sounds to me like a Compromise Agreement??
    I used to be indecisive - now I'm not so sure
    • ohreally
    • By ohreally 13th Jan 18, 3:38 PM
    • 6,439 Posts
    • 4,935 Thanks
    ohreally
    • #5
    • 13th Jan 18, 3:38 PM
    • #5
    • 13th Jan 18, 3:38 PM
    As part of consideration she has £250 towards advice of the agreement, however I am looking for thoughts if the process is correct/appropriate
    Originally posted by williduck
    Do you have the agreement on which to get advice?
    Imagination is a mental faculty that serves as a coping mechanism for those who can't or won't accept reality - unicorns and dragons and wives who don't nag, are all figments of the "imagination".

    Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world.
    • williduck
    • By williduck 13th Jan 18, 4:12 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    williduck
    • #6
    • 13th Jan 18, 4:12 PM
    • #6
    • 13th Jan 18, 4:12 PM
    Are you absolutely sure she's been made redundant? That sounds to me like a Compromise Agreement??
    Originally posted by Cheeky_Monkey
    Yeah deffo been made redundant, it is essentially a compromise agreement which is why I feel something isn’t right!
    • williduck
    • By williduck 13th Jan 18, 4:24 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    williduck
    • #7
    • 13th Jan 18, 4:24 PM
    • #7
    • 13th Jan 18, 4:24 PM
    Do you have the agreement on which to get advice?
    Originally posted by ohreally
    Yeah we have the settlement agreement
    • agrinnall
    • By agrinnall 13th Jan 18, 4:26 PM
    • 19,148 Posts
    • 14,823 Thanks
    agrinnall
    • #8
    • 13th Jan 18, 4:26 PM
    • #8
    • 13th Jan 18, 4:26 PM
    What is the basis for the Compromise Agreement? If she's seeking legal advice she has to know what to seek advice about. Might it be on non-statutory grounds such as waiving a claim for breach of contract?
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 13th Jan 18, 4:51 PM
    • 4,384 Posts
    • 7,307 Thanks
    sangie595
    • #9
    • 13th Jan 18, 4:51 PM
    • #9
    • 13th Jan 18, 4:51 PM
    Ok. I expected it to be under 2 years. So I'm going to have to ask. Is there something else going on here? They called her in, told her she was redundant and turned her off the premises, having already drawn up a settlement agreement - and the employer knows she can claim unfair dismissal? That sounds decidedly like a death wish on their part.
    • williduck
    • By williduck 13th Jan 18, 5:41 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    williduck
    What is the basis for the Compromise Agreement? If she's seeking legal advice she has to know what to seek advice about. Might it be on non-statutory grounds such as waiving a claim for breach of contract?
    Originally posted by agrinnall
    OK reading through a copy of the brief she received at her meeting on Thursday, essentially due to poor financial performance etc. They are re-structuring etc..... “i am sorry to inform you that as a consequence of these proposed changes your role is now at risk of being made redundant

    The settlement agreement is offered as a compensation payment to terminate mutually end employment.
    • williduck
    • By williduck 13th Jan 18, 5:47 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    williduck
    Ok. I expected it to be under 2 years. So I'm going to have to ask. Is there something else going on here? They called her in, told her she was redundant and turned her off the premises, having already drawn up a settlement agreement - and the employer knows she can claim unfair dismissal? That sounds decidedly like a death wish on their part.
    Originally posted by sangie595
    Nothing else going on, this is why it’s a complete shock

    Essentially it appears that the meeting she had on thursday was to put her at risk of redundancy and the process is to offer the settlement agreement, it goes on to say that “you are not required to return to work after this meeting.......after the settlement agreement discussions have been concluded I am happy to arrange a date for you to return to work if you wish to say goodbye to your team and colleagues”
    • Xbigman
    • By Xbigman 13th Jan 18, 6:21 PM
    • 2,979 Posts
    • 1,230 Thanks
    Xbigman
    How many are affected?




    Darren
    Xbigman's guide to a happy life.

    Eat properly
    Sleep properly
    Save some money
    • nicechap
    • By nicechap 13th Jan 18, 6:23 PM
    • 883 Posts
    • 1,967 Thanks
    nicechap
    Presumably the Settlement Agreement is more than redundancy would be otherwise. Does it include anything about a good reference?
    Quote was right and saw into the future.
    • williduck
    • By williduck 13th Jan 18, 6:36 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    williduck
    How many are affected?




    Darren
    Originally posted by Xbigman
    She’s not sure - the briefing/minutes of the meeting refer to a team of support engineers.

    Within her team, herself and another (the other has been on/is still on long term sick for over a year following a serious car accident) - the rest of her direct team are contractors.

    From the sounds of it, potentially more than the trigger for consultation.
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 13th Jan 18, 6:39 PM
    • 4,384 Posts
    • 7,307 Thanks
    sangie595
    Ok. Unfortunately I am not seeing much wrong here. They are making the role redundant- the work may continue but that will be reallocated, and they can do that. It is very common, when financial pressures are the driver, to retain contractors. They are usually cheaper overall and have no employment rights so they can be disposed of quickly.

    On that basis there wouldn't be an alternative employment, and you can't discuss something that doesn't exist. And the "consultation" would cover the discussions on the settlement agreement.

    I would suggest that fighting this on a technicality - if you can find one - isn't worth it. I would be looking at the best possible settlement offer and agreed reference. She will be getting legal advice anyway, so if there is something glaring that isn't obvious here, then they should pick it up. But the reality is that they don't want her, so why would she want to fight to stay? So unless there is something not obvious here, it probably isn't worth much anyway. If they are this close to the edge, getting out now might be best for her in the long run.
    • williduck
    • By williduck 13th Jan 18, 6:40 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    williduck
    Presumably the Settlement Agreement is more than redundancy would be otherwise. Does it include anything about a good reference?
    Originally posted by nicechap
    Yes - I think statutory she is only entitled to 2 weeks pay (is it 1week per year???)

    The words in the briefing from the meeting she had are “the financial benefit to you is due to the fact your settlement would include: a compensation payment equivalent to your redundancy entitlement and a payment for contractual elements”

    A reference is included but it’s just a standard with job title and employment dates
    Last edited by williduck; 13-01-2018 at 6:43 PM.
    • williduck
    • By williduck 13th Jan 18, 6:46 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    williduck
    Ok. Unfortunately I am not seeing much wrong here. They are making the role redundant- the work may continue but that will be reallocated, and they can do that. It is very common, when financial pressures are the driver, to retain contractors. They are usually cheaper overall and have no employment rights so they can be disposed of quickly.

    On that basis there wouldn't be an alternative employment, and you can't discuss something that doesn't exist. And the "consultation" would cover the discussions on the settlement agreement.

    I would suggest that fighting this on a technicality - if you can find one - isn't worth it. I would be looking at the best possible settlement offer and agreed reference. She will be getting legal advice anyway, so if there is something glaring that isn't obvious here, then they should pick it up. But the reality is that they don't want her, so why would she want to fight to stay? So unless there is something not obvious here, it probably isn't worth much anyway. If they are this close to the edge, getting out now might be best for her in the long run.
    Originally posted by sangie595
    Thanks very much, it just seems so out of the blue, totally understand it happens and she’s accepted that she’s leaving it’s more about getting the best pay off.

    One question that I thought if was that if she didn’t accept the settlement agreement she’s technically at risk but I suppose that W made her mind up and she’d end up leaving at some point with only statutory redundancy pay?
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 13th Jan 18, 7:01 PM
    • 4,384 Posts
    • 7,307 Thanks
    sangie595
    Thanks very much, it just seems so out of the blue, totally understand it happens and she’s accepted that she’s leaving it’s more about getting the best pay off.

    One question that I thought if was that if she didn’t accept the settlement agreement she’s technically at risk but I suppose that W made her mind up and she’d end up leaving at some point with only statutory redundancy pay?
    Originally posted by williduck
    Yes that would be correct. She can fight, but that means she gets nothing more than statutory. And unless she has some good grounds she could end up with less.
    • phill99
    • By phill99 14th Jan 18, 3:22 PM
    • 7,999 Posts
    • 7,233 Thanks
    phill99
    We aren't being given the whole story!!
    Eat vegetables and fear no creditors, rather than eat duck and hide.
    • sharpe106
    • By sharpe106 14th Jan 18, 9:10 PM
    • 348 Posts
    • 211 Thanks
    sharpe106
    We aren't being given the whole story!!
    Originally posted by phill99
    are we ever?
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