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  • FIRST POST
    • Combat_Monkey
    • By Combat_Monkey 12th Jan 18, 5:26 PM
    • 4Posts
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    Combat_Monkey
    What is Proof of "Consumer Damage"?
    • #1
    • 12th Jan 18, 5:26 PM
    What is Proof of "Consumer Damage"? 12th Jan 18 at 5:26 PM
    Hello all,

    Hoping I can pick some brains. I've become fairly well read up on the Consumer Rights Act 2015 and I have currently escalated my complaint to the Ombudsman as 02 are refusing to either repair or replace my phone free of charge or provide any proof that the phone was fault free at the time I took ownership or that I; through negligence or mis-use have caused the damage.

    Brief background is that the phone is 5 months old, I attempted all self repairs suggested by 02 or the manufacturer all with no change. The phone has not been dropped or exposed to water. All functions of the phone work as intended except the "Dash Charge" function (A fast charge feature).


    I requested a replacement in the store but 02 instead offered to repair it as it would be cheaper for them and I agreed providing it would only take around 5-10 business days.

    The phone has a USB-C port (these are new ports which are more robust than Micro USB and you cannot plug them in upside down like older USB's as they are not directional like that). The USB-C port works for standard "slow" charging and works fine for data transfer as I used this for data transfer off to the PC before resetting it and sending it to 02.


    5 days after sending the phone off for repair I get an email saying it is not covered for this type of problem (presuming under warranty) and to contact the store. I did so and was quoted £44.99 for the repair but I challenged this as again I have not mis-treated the phone and have taken care of it.

    I have tried going through complaints and they were not willing to budge on this nor have they provided any evidence to support this claim. The only "proof" provided by complaints was that the box was sealed before I purchased it (though it wasn't from memory) and that the repair center had raised a quote stating damage to the USB-C port.


    I just wanted to ask as I have been unable to find any information elsewhere but; what actually would be suitable proof from 02 of this alleged damage?

    I am 99.9% certain that I could not have caused any damage to the port as I have only used the official branded cables and charging plugs. A further concern which has now crossed my mind is did any damage occur within the repair center? I know this would be highly unlikely, but I have googled the repair center (Anovo) and read some worrying stories of phones being returned in "repaired" condition but with further damage sustained.

    Any and all help would be greatly appreciated. As I said I have now contacted the ombudsman outlined in 02's final decision email but the waiting for a reply is driving me to distraction!

    All the best,


    David
    Last edited by Combat_Monkey; 12-01-2018 at 6:21 PM.
Page 1
    • marliepanda
    • By marliepanda 12th Jan 18, 5:38 PM
    • 5,041 Posts
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    marliepanda
    • #2
    • 12th Jan 18, 5:38 PM
    • #2
    • 12th Jan 18, 5:38 PM
    I’d give up IMO. It’s so easy to force something into USB ports, upside down, out of line, yanking the cable or instead of gently pulling it from the base etc.

    Charger ports take a tonne of abuse.
    Survey Earnings 2017 - £163
    • bris
    • By bris 12th Jan 18, 5:40 PM
    • 7,229 Posts
    • 6,242 Thanks
    bris
    • #3
    • 12th Jan 18, 5:40 PM
    • #3
    • 12th Jan 18, 5:40 PM
    You need to get the phone back and commission your own independent experts report on the phone. If this is in your favour the cost of this report should also be refunded.


    If it turns out the port is physically damaged then this will not go in your favour.


    Even if the report is found in your favour they can still dispute it, meaning it would still end up in court. You need to weigh up the trouble £44.99 is worth to you and risk also losing the cost of a report.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 12th Jan 18, 6:04 PM
    • 5,206 Posts
    • 3,668 Thanks
    KeithP
    • #4
    • 12th Jan 18, 6:04 PM
    • #4
    • 12th Jan 18, 6:04 PM
    I've become fairly well read up on the Consumer Services Act 2015...
    Originally posted by Combat_Monkey
    I'm pleased to hear it.

    Please enlighten us... what is this Consumer Services Act 2015 that you have become so acquainted with?
    .
    • Combat_Monkey
    • By Combat_Monkey 12th Jan 18, 6:09 PM
    • 4 Posts
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    Combat_Monkey
    • #5
    • 12th Jan 18, 6:09 PM
    • #5
    • 12th Jan 18, 6:09 PM
    I'm pleased to hear it.

    Please enlighten us... what is this Consumer Services Act 2015 that you have become so acquainted with?
    Originally posted by KeithP

    Nice to see there's always one sarcastic smart !!!! on the internet at all times.... Clearly I meant the consumer rights act 2015...


    Thank you everyone else for input. However as its in the 1st 6 months I don't need to prove anything. Burdon of proof is with 02 and they haven't done so. Further to that, surly the USB port shouldn't break under normal in such a short time frame as it would clearly not be of sufficient quality or durability?


    Again its not down the money value of the repair, but its down to what is the right course of action. If I had any suspicion that I could have caused this damage I would not be questioning it at all. However USB-C is meant to be more durable than previous generations of USB ports and you cant plug it in wrong as it fits in upside down and right way up. 90degrees it simply wont fit and how would I damage is so exactly to disable fast charging and nothing else?

    As its within the first 6 months Im just wondering what proof 02 would need to provide so I can ask for this proof as so far asking for more details than "Damage to USB port" they've been unwilling to provide.
    Last edited by Combat_Monkey; 12-01-2018 at 6:32 PM.
    • mije1983
    • By mije1983 12th Jan 18, 6:37 PM
    • 2,640 Posts
    • 18,432 Thanks
    mije1983
    • #6
    • 12th Jan 18, 6:37 PM
    • #6
    • 12th Jan 18, 6:37 PM
    You say..

    Burdon of proof is with 02 and they haven't done so.
    Originally posted by Combat_Monkey
    but how do you know? Where was the phone sent? If it was to either the manufacturer or an approved repairer, and that have said it is user damage, then that is their expert proof. As said above, now it is your turn to challenge that with your own report from an expert. If on the other hand, it was just looked at in the shop, then I would say they are not qualified to assess the damage.



    Again its not down the money value of the repair, but its down to what is the right course of action.
    Originally posted by Combat_Monkey
    The right course of action, as said above, is that you need your own report disputing O2's findings.

    • Combat_Monkey
    • By Combat_Monkey 12th Jan 18, 7:35 PM
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    Combat_Monkey
    • #7
    • 12th Jan 18, 7:35 PM
    • #7
    • 12th Jan 18, 7:35 PM
    but how do you know? Where was the phone sent? If it was to either the manufacturer or an approved repairer, and that have said it is user damage, then that is their expert proof. As said above, now it is your turn to challenge that with your own report from an expert. If on the other hand, it was just looked at in the shop, then I would say they are not qualified to assess the damage.

    The right course of action, as said above, is that you need your own report disputing O2's findings.
    Originally posted by mije1983



    The Phone is currently with Anovo. A quick search on goggle reveals some horrifying reviews of them causing damage, refusing to repair or even return goods. There is also multiple mentions of them on the MSE forums too.

    If they have discovered damage they need to provide proof of that to me (checked this with CAB and consumer line) which they haven't. The only "proof" they've tried to provide is that it was in a sealed box when I bought it but that isn't true.

    As I said I've taken the case to the ombudsman so I'll just have to wait and see what they say but thank you for attempting to help.


    The biggest fear I have is that there has been additional damaged caused as a result of sending it to repair and if I did opt to send it to the manufacturer for assessment this is what they would find.
    • agrinnall
    • By agrinnall 12th Jan 18, 7:52 PM
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    agrinnall
    • #8
    • 12th Jan 18, 7:52 PM
    • #8
    • 12th Jan 18, 7:52 PM
    Iíd give up IMO. Itís so easy to force something into USB ports, upside down, out of line, yanking the cable or instead of gently pulling it from the base etc.

    Charger ports take a tonne of abuse.
    Originally posted by marliepanda
    That's not really the case with USB-C though, you'd never need to force it in and upside down isn't a concept in USB-C, I think accidental damage would be pretty unusual (I have a USB-C phone myself).
    • Fosterdog
    • By Fosterdog 12th Jan 18, 8:06 PM
    • 3,560 Posts
    • 6,123 Thanks
    Fosterdog
    • #9
    • 12th Jan 18, 8:06 PM
    • #9
    • 12th Jan 18, 8:06 PM
    That's not really the case with USB-C though, you'd never need to force it in and upside down isn't a concept in USB-C, I think accidental damage would be pretty unusual (I have a USB-C phone myself).
    Originally posted by agrinnall
    Admittedly itís less likely to sustain damage but not impossible, particularly if it is kept in a bag or pocket with other items. A hair clip, earphone jack, car or house keys or anything else you carry could easily cause damage as has happened plenty of times with the Apple lightning connection which is a very similar design to USB-C.
    • agrinnall
    • By agrinnall 13th Jan 18, 9:10 AM
    • 19,202 Posts
    • 14,871 Thanks
    agrinnall
    Admittedly itís less likely to sustain damage but not impossible, particularly if it is kept in a bag or pocket with other items. A hair clip, earphone jack, car or house keys or anything else you carry could easily cause damage as has happened plenty of times with the Apple lightning connection which is a very similar design to USB-C.
    Originally posted by Fosterdog
    Hence my use of the term "pretty unusual" rather than "impossible".
    • Combat_Monkey
    • By Combat_Monkey 15th Jan 18, 4:27 PM
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    Combat_Monkey
    Thankfully no need of hair clips or anything else. Phone generally kept in a pocket on its own or sitting on the desk etc so could safely rule that out. Done some more research on USB-C and its rated for 10,000+ cycles... so in 5 months 7 days getting plugged in say 5 times in a 24hr period would mean its only gone through arround 800 cycles so less than 1% of its service life.

    Apple lightning ports are different as well as from memory (and im not an apple user) the pins are on the female port which is why there more prone to damage. USB-C has the pins on the cable side so even being 10k+ cycles should mean the cable wears out first by design as this is the easier link to replace.

    Been back to 02 as was promised on Wednesday last week that technical report would be in by Friday, it wasn't so back in on Monday.. and still no report which I still find odd considering that the report should of been done when the phone was checked initially. Still waiting to hear back from the ombudsman too so waiting it out.
    • pmduk
    • By pmduk 15th Jan 18, 6:49 PM
    • 7,804 Posts
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    pmduk
    Remember anecdotal reports about Anovo on Google are not evidence that will stand up in court. Similarly, it sounds much too soon for an Ombudsman ruling.
    • George Michael
    • By George Michael 15th Jan 18, 9:11 PM
    • 2,925 Posts
    • 3,958 Thanks
    George Michael
    Done some more research on USB-C and its rated for 10,000+ cycles... so in 5 months 7 days getting plugged in say 5 times in a 24hr period would mean its only gone through arround 800 cycles so less than 1% of its service life.
    Originally posted by Combat_Monkey
    800 cycles out of an estimated life of 10,000 is actually 8% of it's estimated life.
    Still low but far more than "less than 1%"
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