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  • FIRST POST
    • adbe
    • By adbe 12th Jan 18, 3:31 PM
    • 7Posts
    • 1Thanks
    adbe
    Excel - Notice of Intended Court Proceedings
    • #1
    • 12th Jan 18, 3:31 PM
    Excel - Notice of Intended Court Proceedings 12th Jan 18 at 3:31 PM
    I've read the newbies guide (possibly a few months too late), but just like everyone else, I need some extra reassurance!

    The Peel Centre - Excel Parking (IPC)

    Received a PCN from Excel with a photo of a vehicle I own, alleging that parking wasn't paid for

    Appealed with something like:
    As the registered keeper of the vehicle, I have received your "invoice"

    There is no evidence that no ticket was purchased by the driver. I do not believe the charge to be a genuine pre-estimate of losses incurred or that the charge is fair or reasonable.

    Photographs of a vehicle entry and exit cannot establish whether or not the driver paid the standard parking charge, or the identity of the driver.

    The Notice to Keeper failed to meet the obligations of Schedule 4 of the POFA Act 2012, the Notice to Keeper arrived on the September 2017 - which is (a month) following the alleged parking offence. The issue date of the notice is more than 14 days after that on which the specified period of parking ended. As such the registered keeper cannot be held to account for the alleged debt of the driver.

    The references to contraventions make clear that your demand is not a contractual charge, it cannot be a genuine pre-estimate of any losses incurred
    In a response rejecting my appeal Excel acknowledged that they do not know who the driver was
    Please note that responsibility for this Charge lies with the driver of the vehicle at the time the parking contravention was observed. However, we are unable to ascertain who the driver was on the date in questions from the information
    given within your appeal.

    Excel went quiet for a while but I've now received a "Notice of Intended Court Proceedings" scare document - can I safely ignore this?

    It looks like I've missed some deadlines in the early stages ...

    Any help is greatly appreciated
Page 1
    • Redx
    • By Redx 12th Jan 18, 3:38 PM
    • 17,186 Posts
    • 21,478 Thanks
    Redx
    • #2
    • 12th Jan 18, 3:38 PM
    • #2
    • 12th Jan 18, 3:38 PM
    who sent it ?

    EXCEL or BW LEGAL ?

    read it again and check if it is an LBC (which it seems to be)

    check if it conforms to the new PaP protocols brought in last october

    and read post #2 of that NEWBIES sticky thread and start composing an LBC rebuttal reply

    also look for any recent EXCEL or VCS LBC threads on here and see what was in their rebuttal replies , then draft your final response to this latest LBC (if that is what it is)
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • adbe
    • By adbe 12th Jan 18, 3:58 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    adbe
    • #3
    • 12th Jan 18, 3:58 PM
    • #3
    • 12th Jan 18, 3:58 PM
    I've OCRed the latest letter for confirmation (so apologies if i've missed any mis-translation) - it appears to be from Excel

    We are disappointed to note that you have failed to pay the outstanding Parking Charge Notice (PCN) detailed above.

    Following your, unsuccessful appeal to us. we advised you that further action may be taken against you if payment was not received within 14 days. that date has expired and the amount outstanding is overdue. You also had the option to appeal to The Independent Appeals Service (The IAS) but you have chosen not to seek Independent Adjudication.

    Should the outstanding amount not be paid by the Deadline for Action date specified above we may comnmence legal proceedings against you Without further notice. It is important you note that in the event we have to issue County Court Proceedings for failure to pay the outstanding amount we will also seek to recover our associated Court Fees and statutory interest.

    We wish to bring to your attention the case of ParkingEye Limited v Beavis [2015] UKSC 67 in which the Supreme Court held that parking charges serve a legitimate commercial interest and are neither extravagant nor unconscionable.

    If we successfully obtain a County Court Judgment ("CCJ") against you, it will be recorded on your credit file for 6 years unless you satisfy the CCJ in ull within 28 days of the CCJ being entered. A CCJ on your credit file may affect your ability to obtain future credit and may affect your employability

    If you fail to comply with the CCJ we reserve the right to take one of the following enforcement actions to recover this debt.
    • Warrant of Control: A County Court Bailiff visiting you at your home Attachment of Earnings: Your employer may be ordered to deduct payments from your wages.
    • Order to Attend Court For Questioning: You being ordered to attend court to disclose your financial circumstances.

    In allowing you the opportunity to make representations and/or to pay the amount outstanding before the commencement of court proceedings, we have complied with the guidelines under the International Parking Community The IPC) Code of Practice and our obligations under the Civil Procedure Rule ("CPR"). All previous correspondence in this matter with be brought to the attention of the court should this point be raised

    What you need to do now: To avoid proceedings being commenced and the above additional costs and interest being incurred, you must pay the amount specified above by 19/01/2018. See below for methods of payment.

    To contact us in relation to this matter. telephone 0114 231 7851.

    Yours faithfully
    Debt & Litigation Manager



    Based on a read of the PaP protocol - this doesn't cover at least this point, and might just be a another scare tactic:

    The letter should contain the date and details of the decision, act or omission being challenged, a clear summary of the facts and the legal basis for the claim. It should also contain the details of any information that the claimant is seeking and an explanation of why this is considered relevant
    • Redx
    • By Redx 12th Jan 18, 4:04 PM
    • 17,186 Posts
    • 21,478 Thanks
    Redx
    • #4
    • 12th Jan 18, 4:04 PM
    • #4
    • 12th Jan 18, 4:04 PM
    agreed , so your LBC rebuttal needs to say so, based on either a recent LBC rebuttal from here or based on the daniel san LBC rebuttal

    ie:- treat it as an LBC
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • adbe
    • By adbe 12th Jan 18, 4:24 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    adbe
    • #5
    • 12th Jan 18, 4:24 PM
    • #5
    • 12th Jan 18, 4:24 PM
    Great - thanks for the advice. So even if it doesn't look like a correctly formatted LBC, they may be treating it as such...

    I'll be printing and sending something along the lines of Daniel San's - mildly adapted below:
    Dear Sirs,

    I am in receipt of your Letter Before Claim of 05/01/2018

    Your letter contains insufficient detail of the claim and fails to provide copies of evidence you place reliance upon.

    You must know that on 01 October 2017 a new protocol is applicable to debt claims. Since proceedings have not yet been issued, the new protocol clearly applies and must be complied with.

    Your letter lacks specificity and breaches both the requirements of the previously applicable Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct (paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c)) and the new Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims (paragraphs 3.1(a)-(d), 5.1 and 5.2. Please treat this letter as a formal request for all of the documents / information that the protocol now requires your client to provide. Your client must not issue proceedings without complying with that protocol. I reserve the right to draw any failure of the Claimant to comply with the protocol to the attention of the court and to ask the court to stay the claim and order your client to comply with its pre-action obligations, and when costs come to be considered.

    The requirements of both the Practice Direction applicable pre-1 October and the Protocol which applies thereafter. As you must know, the Practice Direction and Protocol bind all potential litigants, whatever the size or type of the claim. Its express purpose is to assist parties in understanding the claim and their respective positions in relation to it, to enable parties to take stock of their positions and to negotiate a settlement, or at least narrow the issues, without incurring the costs of court proceedings or using up valuable court time.
    I require your client to comply with its obligations by sending me the following information/documents:

    1. An explanation of the cause of action
    2. Whether they are pursuing me as driver or keeper
    3. Whether they are relying on the provisions of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012
    4. What the details of the claim are; where it is claimed the vehicle was parked, for how long, how the monies being claimed arose and have been calculated
    5. Is the claim for a contractual breach? If so, what is the date of the agreement? The names of the parties to it and provide to me a copy of that contract.
    6. Is the claim for trespass? If so, provide details.
    7. Provide me a copy of the contract with the landowner under which they assert authority to bring the claim, as required by the IPC code of practice section B, clause 1.1 “establishing yourself as the creditor”
    8. A plan showing where any signs were displayed
    9. Details of the signs displayed (size of sign, size of font, height at which displayed)
    10. Provide details of the original charge, and detail any interest and administrative or other charges added
    11. Provide a copy of the Information Sheet and the Reply Form

    If you do not provide me with this information then I put you on notice that I will be relying on the cases of Webb Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch), Daejan Investments Limited v The Park West Club Limited (Part 20) – Buxton Associates [2003] EWHC 2872, Charles Church Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Limited & Peter Dann Limited [2007] EWHC 855 in asking the court to impose sanctions on your client and to order a stay of the proceedings, pursuant to paragraphs 13 ,15(b) and (c) and 16 of the Practice Direction, as referred to in paragraph 7.2 of the Protocol.

    Until your client has complied with its obligations and provided this information, I am unable to respond properly to the alleged claim and to consider my position in relation to it, and it is entirely premature (and a waste of costs and court time) for your client to issue proceedings. Should your client do so, then I will seek an immediate stay pursuant to paragraph 15(b) of the Practice Direction and an order that this information is provided.

    Yours faithfully
    • adbe
    • By adbe 16th Jan 18, 10:44 AM
    • 7 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    adbe
    • #6
    • 16th Jan 18, 10:44 AM
    • #6
    • 16th Jan 18, 10:44 AM
    Sent recorded delivery - I will no doubt post in a month or two when I get the next scary letter.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 16th Jan 18, 10:48 AM
    • 34,164 Posts
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    Quentin
    • #7
    • 16th Jan 18, 10:48 AM
    • #7
    • 16th Jan 18, 10:48 AM
    In future don't use recorded delivery when dealing with this


    Instead get the post office certificate of posting (foc)


    (signed for service doesn't work for you if the recipient refuses to accept it - they can then prove they never received it by referring to your tracking number!)
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 17th Jan 18, 12:04 AM
    • 52,911 Posts
    • 66,442 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #8
    • 17th Jan 18, 12:04 AM
    • #8
    • 17th Jan 18, 12:04 AM
    Sent recorded delivery - I will no doubt post in a month or two when I get the next scary letter.
    Originally posted by adbe
    Waste of money, and you handed a chance for it to be refused That's why we DIDN'T tell you to do that.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • adbe
    • By adbe 19th Jan 18, 10:47 AM
    • 7 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    adbe
    • #9
    • 19th Jan 18, 10:47 AM
    • #9
    • 19th Jan 18, 10:47 AM
    Thank you for the advice - I won't bother with that next time.

    Luckily it was signed for and marked as delivered - not expecting any response for a while
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 19th Jan 18, 11:02 AM
    • 7,666 Posts
    • 6,738 Thanks
    The Deep
    Did the PPC comment on your allegation that the PCN was delivered out of time when they dismissed your appeal?


    If they ignored it I do not fancy their chances in court.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 19th Jan 18, 11:05 AM
    • 7,666 Posts
    • 6,738 Thanks
    The Deep
    In future don't use recorded delivery when dealing with this

    Instead get the post office certificate of posting (foc)

    (signed for service doesn't work for you if the recipient refuses to accept it - they can then prove they never received it by referring to your tracking number!)
    Originally posted by Quentin
    Send another copy FCP, get a free certificate of posting from the PO.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • adbe
    • By adbe 22nd Jan 18, 10:03 AM
    • 7 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    adbe
    Did the PPC comment on your allegation that the PCN was delivered out of time when they dismissed your appeal?


    If they ignored it I do not fancy their chances in court.
    Originally posted by The Deep
    Yes - their response was that they did not refer to POFA
    Please note that responsibility for this Charge lies with the driver of the vehicle at the time the parking contravention was observed. However, we are unable to ascertain who the driver was on the date in questions from the information given within your appeal.

    You state that our Notice is not compliant with the Protection Of Freedoms Act (POFA) 2012. We have not cited POFA 2012 nor stated that you are liable for the Charge as the vehicle keeper
    I had hoped it would go away at this point - as they have said it is not my responsibility, and they are unaware of the driver's identity.
    • adbe
    • By adbe 22nd Jan 18, 10:05 AM
    • 7 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    adbe
    Send another copy FCP, get a free certificate of posting from the PO.
    Originally posted by The Deep
    Would you still recommend this if the Recorded Delivery one was signed and accepted? (tracking confirmed as signed/delivered)
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 22nd Jan 18, 10:07 AM
    • 34,164 Posts
    • 18,113 Thanks
    Quentin
    Would you still recommend this if the Recorded Delivery one was signed and accepted? (tracking confirmed as signed/delivered)
    Originally posted by adbe
    No need.

    You have proof they got it!
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