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    • 10JP
    • By 10JP 12th Jan 18, 2:59 PM
    • 5Posts
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    10JP
    Son in Law
    • #1
    • 12th Jan 18, 2:59 PM
    Son in Law 12th Jan 18 at 2:59 PM
    I guess this is a problem that many people face but I wish to leave my daughter most of my estate when I die but her husband has a track record for just completely wasting money and I would hate to think that all that I have worked for would be squandered by him, what options do I have to stop this happening or Is it even possible that after my death I can defer my daughters inheritance until she reaches 60 years of age to give her some sort of pension or money in later life, any suggestions would be most helpful.
Page 1
    • Margot123
    • By Margot123 12th Jan 18, 4:14 PM
    • 515 Posts
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    Margot123
    • #2
    • 12th Jan 18, 4:14 PM
    • #2
    • 12th Jan 18, 4:14 PM
    How long would your daughter be waiting, and what makes you think her hubby will be a reformed character in the future?
    TBH your daughter's inheritance will be hers to do with whatever she likes, including giving it away.
    • need an answer
    • By need an answer 12th Jan 18, 4:23 PM
    • 104 Posts
    • 107 Thanks
    need an answer
    • #3
    • 12th Jan 18, 4:23 PM
    • #3
    • 12th Jan 18, 4:23 PM
    Locking an inheritance away until someone retires is almost like potentially not giving them anything.
    I have no idea of the ages involved yours,your daughters or indeed any of her dependant children who you may also want to consider.

    What provision would you make if your daughter never reached the age you specify or is it a case that you are hoping her spouse may be out of the picture by then?

    My view I believe is give the money as and when the time comes,I am sure your daughter is able to decide then what she wishes to do with anything you leave her.
    in S T F 9
    out S 2 T 1 F 3

    2017 -32

    2018 Wombling entrant No: 5 £6.37
    • 10JP
    • By 10JP 12th Jan 18, 4:42 PM
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    10JP
    • #4
    • 12th Jan 18, 4:42 PM
    • #4
    • 12th Jan 18, 4:42 PM
    Thanks for your replies, My daughter is 40 at the moment and has an 8 year old daughter, the provision would be if she never made the age specified it would all go to my grand daughter who will be provided for as well, of course there would be a smaller sum made available to my daughter upon my death but my thoughts were smaller amounts released annually or the money invested for her to receive income from it until she reaches a specified age, my son in law has made it quite clear he cannot wait to get his hands on my assets to spend as he wishes!
    • jackyann
    • By jackyann 12th Jan 18, 4:46 PM
    • 3,278 Posts
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    jackyann
    • #5
    • 12th Jan 18, 4:46 PM
    • #5
    • 12th Jan 18, 4:46 PM
    Although, mercifully, this doesn't apply to me, I do have some relatives who faced a similar dilemma.
    Think you need to think very carefully about this, and getting advice on forums like this can be helpful. These are things to consider:
    Does she know how you feel? Is the relationship likely to last?
    Could you bypass her and leave to grandchildren?
    How much are you leaving?
    I have known, for example, a house left in trust, so that the beneficiary always had a home. But do get very specialist advice, as there are many pitfalls!
    I personally think that leaving the money as a pension is quite sensible. You could write in that it can be accessed in case of chronic or terminal illness, and of course make provision for an early death. In the situation you describe, your daughter is unlikely to be able to save for a pension, so it could make a huge difference to her. Again, it is very specialist, and I imagine only worth doing if you are leaving a good sum. I have heard it discussed, but don't know anyone who has done it.

    Cross posted!
    • 10JP
    • By 10JP 12th Jan 18, 5:09 PM
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    10JP
    • #6
    • 12th Jan 18, 5:09 PM
    • #6
    • 12th Jan 18, 5:09 PM
    Its a very difficult situation and I have delicately spoken to my daughter about my concerns but at the moment it looks like my grand daughter will do ok, it would involve my house and all my assets
    • PasturesNew
    • By PasturesNew 12th Jan 18, 5:13 PM
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    PasturesNew
    • #7
    • 12th Jan 18, 5:13 PM
    • #7
    • 12th Jan 18, 5:13 PM
    You have to let it go .... let her inherit and then it's her choice/tough luck if things don't work out as you'd have liked them to.

    Even if this were possible/reasonable and if it occurred the way you'd "planned" never underestimate the ability of life events and changing laws to be able to wreck the outcome. e.g. what if she "needed" the money desperately without strings - or what if the law changed and he could have half anyway, no matter what.

    Control what you can control up to today ....and let the rest go.
    • 10JP
    • By 10JP 12th Jan 18, 5:26 PM
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    10JP
    • #8
    • 12th Jan 18, 5:26 PM
    • #8
    • 12th Jan 18, 5:26 PM
    Thank you
    I guess when your gone it doesn't matter as you have no control over it anyway, maybe I just need to spend spend spend and enjoy it myself whilst I still can!
    Last edited by 10JP; 12-01-2018 at 6:21 PM.
    • lincroft1710
    • By lincroft1710 12th Jan 18, 8:00 PM
    • 10,180 Posts
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    lincroft1710
    • #9
    • 12th Jan 18, 8:00 PM
    • #9
    • 12th Jan 18, 8:00 PM
    I guess when your gone it doesn't matter as you have no control over it anyway, maybe I just need to spend spend spend and enjoy it myself whilst I still can!
    Originally posted by 10JP
    The most sensible thing you have posted. Enjoy the money while you are able to, leave the residue to your daughter without conditions or encumbrances, what happens to it won't be your concern.
    • securityguy
    • By securityguy 12th Jan 18, 8:57 PM
    • 2,416 Posts
    • 3,681 Thanks
    securityguy
    Is it even possible that after my death I can defer my daughters inheritance until she reaches 60 years of age to give her some sort of pension or money in later life, any suggestions would be most helpful.
    Originally posted by 10JP
    Leaving aside all the reasons why this is toxic helicopter parenting, no, you can't: Saunders v Vautier means that trusts are payable on demand by competent adults.
    • 10JP
    • By 10JP 13th Jan 18, 5:25 PM
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    10JP
    Toxic helicopter parenting, well there's a phrase I've never heard before, so a plain old concern about something I'm sure many people are worried about actually has a name!!
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 13th Jan 18, 9:09 PM
    • 3,526 Posts
    • 2,879 Thanks
    Yorkshireman99
    Toxic helicopter parenting, well there's a phrase I've never heard before, so a plain old concern about something I'm sure many people are worried about actually has a name!!
    Originally posted by 10JP
    SG is correct if the trust specfies an age but this can easily be cirumvented as any STEP member will tell you. A trust can be set up at reverts at a particular date in the future without mention of the age of the recipeint.
    • cjdavies
    • By cjdavies 15th Jan 18, 6:05 AM
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    cjdavies
    Thank you
    I guess when your gone it doesn't matter as you have no control over it anyway, maybe I just need to spend spend spend and enjoy it myself whilst I still can!
    Originally posted by 10JP
    Personally this is what I would be doing, enjoy life.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 15th Jan 18, 1:43 PM
    • 31,168 Posts
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    getmore4less
    Will be fairly easy to set up a trust to do what you want with both daughter and granddaughter...

    They can still change it but adds extra protection over just the daughter.
    • Malthusian
    • By Malthusian 15th Jan 18, 3:29 PM
    • 3,570 Posts
    • 5,488 Thanks
    Malthusian
    I personally think that leaving the money as a pension is quite sensible.
    Originally posted by jackyann
    It doesn't work. In the event they divorced he would be entitled to half the pension as a starting point, and if they are still married when the daughter turns 55 he can squander the money as easily as if the money had been left directly to the daughter.

    It would also be tax inefficient.

    SG is correct if the trust specfies an age but this can easily be cirumvented as any STEP member will tell you. A trust can be set up at reverts at a particular date in the future without mention of the age of the recipeint.
    by Yorkshireman99
    I don't see how specifying a date instead of an age circumvents Saunders v Vautier. If the beneficiary(ies) named by the trust are all adults they still have the right to ask for the money.

    Lord Langdale said regarding that case "I think that principle has been repeatedly acted upon; and where a legacy is directed to accumulate for a certain period, or where the payment is postponed, the legatee, if he has an absolute indefeasible interest in the legacy, is not bound to wait until the expiration of that period, but may require payment the moment he is competent to give a valid discharge." This would seem to apply equally to a trust which says "to be held until the year 2040" as to one which says "until the beneficiary reaches the age of 25".
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 15th Jan 18, 3:47 PM
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    Yorkshireman99
    It doesn't work. In the event they divorced he would be entitled to half the pension as a starting point, and if they are still married when the daughter turns 55 he can squander the money as easily as if the money had been left directly to the daughter.

    It would also be tax inefficient.



    I don't see how specifying a date instead of an age circumvents Saunders v Vautier. If the beneficiary(ies) named by the trust are all adults they still have the right to ask for the money.

    Lord Langdale said regarding that case "I think that principle has been repeatedly acted upon; and where a legacy is directed to accumulate for a certain period, or where the payment is postponed, the legatee, if he has an absolute indefeasible interest in the legacy, is not bound to wait until the expiration of that period, but may require payment the moment he is competent to give a valid discharge." This would seem to apply equally to a trust which says "to be held until the year 2040" as to one which says "until the beneficiary reaches the age of 25".
    Originally posted by Malthusian
    Noted. I can only say that when I asked STEP member she told me there were ways around it. Since she is a fully qualified professional trust specialist her advice, as far as I am concerned, takes precedence. She did not explain in detail how it could done.
    • TBagpuss
    • By TBagpuss 15th Jan 18, 4:47 PM
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    TBagpuss
    I think the way around it is normally to have a discretionary, rather than simple, trust. If the daughter and granddaughter (and any hypothetical future grandchild) are discretionary beneficiaries but neither is absolutely entitled.

    However, best for you to get proper advice from an experienced solicitor.

    It may be that it's worth talking to your daughter, too. Does she feel her husband is wasteful with money, or is it more that he (and she?) have different priorities than you?

    If she has concerns about his spending habits then a discretionary trust may be a good way forward.
    • jackyann
    • By jackyann 17th Jan 18, 10:23 PM
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    jackyann
    I think, Malthusian, that the idea is that it gives more years in which the daughter may end the relationship. It may not work, in which case, nothing is lost, but it may - and these kind of relationships often end. And although no expert, I don't think that an ex is always entitled to half of a pension, depends on circumstances, and this will be left specifically to daughter.

    So: if the money is left NOW, it will almost certainly be squandered; if looked after for 20 years, it will yield a pension, which has somewhat less chance of being squandered. And if indeed it is half a pension for daughter alone, it my be more useful than a whole one shared with a waster.

    I also have an idea that it is possible to leave the money to buy a pension, rather than setting up a trust to be accessed at a certain age. Legal difference, that a financial advisor would understand, and may be worth looking at.

    And of course, on a board like this, we have no idea as to which is the toxic relationship, just have to take things at face value.
    Last edited by jackyann; 17-01-2018 at 10:25 PM.
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 17th Jan 18, 10:52 PM
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    Yorkshireman99
    I think, Malthusian, that the idea is that it gives more years in which the daughter may end the relationship. It may not work, in which case, nothing is lost, but it may - and these kind of relationships often end. And although no expert, I don't think that an ex is always entitled to half of a pension, depends on circumstances, and this will be left specifically to daughter.

    So: if the money is left NOW, it will almost certainly be squandered; if looked after for 20 years, it will yield a pension, which has somewhat less chance of being squandered. And if indeed it is half a pension for daughter alone, it my be more useful than a whole one shared with a waster.

    I also have an idea that it is possible to leave the money to buy a pension, rather than setting up a trust to be accessed at a certain age. Legal difference, that a financial advisor would understand, and may be worth looking at.

    And of course, on a board like this, we have no idea as to which is the toxic relationship, just have to take things at face value.
    Originally posted by jackyann
    The average IFA will not have the knowledge to advise you correctly. You need to see a solicitor who is a trust specialist i.e. a STEP member. Don’t waste your money elsewhere.
    • jackyann
    • By jackyann 18th Jan 18, 1:08 PM
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    jackyann
    Thanks, Yorkshireman, very specialist I would think. I read of someone who left money to be put into a pension for his grandchildren (on the grounds that they would have difficulty saving into a pension pot) and it came to mind.
    In my own family, I have seen a grandparents' inheritance spent very differently by grandchildren. Most put it into a house deposit, or ISA for that purpose. One spent it 'travelling' and one did very much as OP fears. One pursued a dream that everyone knew would simply be a money pit and lead to nothing - but at least has only seen the dream evaporate, and hasn't ended up in debt!
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