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  • FIRST POST
    • MissConStru
    • By MissConStru 12th Jan 18, 12:59 PM
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    MissConStru
    Amazon refund problems - I need help!
    • #1
    • 12th Jan 18, 12:59 PM
    Amazon refund problems - I need help! 12th Jan 18 at 12:59 PM
    This is a long, long story but it's driving me potty!

    May 2017, I ordered an electric bidet toilet seat off Amazon. Cost was around £480. It took a while to arrive but when it did, my plumber and I found the instructions were all in Chinese or something similar! So I contacted the seller and asked it I could return it. His reply was very helpful and said he would be willing to give me a full refund and would send me a prepaid returns label.

    That took a few weeks to arrive but eventually I contacted the courier as directed (Parcel Force) who duly collected it on 5th July. The driver offered on of those digital things for me to sign and that was that!

    But no it wasn't!

    August 4th a van arrived and I see my parcel being unloaded from the back. Naturally I rejected it.

    Then September 15th, back it comes again! Rejected

    Sadly I failed to note the name of the courier involved but it definitely wasn't Parcel Force!

    After a goodish wait, I contacted
    the seller via Amazon messages to ask if he'd received the item - no answer!
    I emailed him twice more with the same result.

    By now it's November 20th ad they said they would look into it. Then I got an email telling me "cannot accept your reply as sufficient proof of delivery for this transaction. We will need proof of delivery that shows the address and the signature of the delivery. This can be sent as an attachment"

    In vain I have tried to tell them (by phone) that I don't have a signed document because I signed a digital pad. Next day I get exactly the same email again!

    I've done everything I can think of.

    I phoned Parcel Force who not only provided me with the tracking number and date of delivery to the place cited on the returns label and even sent me a screen shot of the computer. I sent all this to Amazon - result, another of those wretched emails!

    If I ring them (and I have about 2 dozen times!) I only get to speak to a customer service person who puts me on hold then tells me s/he has passed my case on to 'another' department and the next day, I get yet another of those wretched emails!

    So I'm pretty much at the end of my tether now. I am a pensioner. I cannot afford to write off £480 but where do I go from here? Has any body any suggestions? Please?

    Last edited by MissConStru; 12-01-2018 at 1:02 PM.
Page 2
    • RFW
    • By RFW 12th Jan 18, 8:19 PM
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    RFW
    OK
    A few things that spring to mind.

    First, did the prepaid label come via Amazon? I'm assuming it did even if the seller issued it. As a seller on Amazon I wouldn't know how to provide a return label not going through Amazon.

    If that is the case then the form of delivery is irrelevant, Amazon and/or the seller chose to accept the return in that format so should just refund.

    Personally I'd go back through Amazon customer service. You can get 'live help' if you click through some of the help pages. I'd be brief and simple. For example:

    "Regarding order xyz. I was given a return label for this and subsequently returned it. Parcelforce have given me proof of delivery, see attached. I would like my refund according to Amazon policy."
    .
    • MissConStru
    • By MissConStru 12th Jan 18, 8:58 PM
    • 49 Posts
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    MissConStru
    If a seller is in China then they have to provide a UK address for a return. As Amazon store all messages between a buyer and seller, do you not have a copy in your messages that shows what this address was?
    Originally posted by F&L
    There was a UK address but stupid here failed to make a note of it!
    As you were supplied with a returns label, how could you have been expected to know that Amazon will only accept a return which has a signature?
    Originally posted by F&L
    Exactly!

    Has the seller used a logisitics company returns address without their knowledge? XPO Logisitics may know of this seller, evidence of which would help in any chargeback claim with your card company.
    Originally posted by F&L
    They've only told me about Parcel Force who picked it up for return.
    • Dox
    • By Dox 12th Jan 18, 10:59 PM
    • 125 Posts
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    Dox
    You should appeal to your card company with the proof of postage (and tracking number if you have it - not the reference you've given above).
    Originally posted by theonlywayisup
    Too late for a chargeback - must be within 120 days of purchase.
    • RFW
    • By RFW 12th Jan 18, 11:04 PM
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    • 4,989 Thanks
    RFW
    There was a UK address but stupid here failed to make a note of it!
    Exactly!
    Originally posted by MissConStru
    You should be able to still have access to that in the order page. The return label should still be there somewhere.
    It would also have been emailed to you, you may still have the email.
    .
    • Dox
    • By Dox 13th Jan 18, 12:37 AM
    • 125 Posts
    • 81 Thanks
    Dox
    As OP has pointed out, this is a long saga and has the potential to go round in circles in this forum just as much as via Amazon.

    OP, could I suggest you make a chronology of events, setting out key dates/events and avoiding all chat/emotion (however tempting it may be to add some local colour to your narrative) as clearly as you can and send it to Amazon and to the seller? Don't make accusations; just set out what has happened and read it through carefully before you send it to ensure it is accurate and logical.

    if you still get nowhere, wing it over to Tony Hetherington at the Mail, or Jessica Gorst at the Telegraph, and see if that gets you anywhere.

    I do think one thing which could be a problem is the length of time which has elapsed. Courier companies won't generally investigate things which took place longer than 3 or 4 weeks ago, so 4 or 5 months from the first 'returned' parcel in August may be a stumbling block. For that reason, I'd certainly get on with it as soon as possible.
    • bxboards
    • By bxboards 13th Jan 18, 9:02 AM
    • 1,345 Posts
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    bxboards
    You should be able to still have access to that in the order page. The return label should still be there somewhere.
    It would also have been emailed to you, you may still have the email.
    Originally posted by RFW
    As I said in post 8, Parcelforce offer a label-less collection service and will bring their own.

    I've used this myself for customers without access to a printer. The courier simply turns up and collects, but the the customer will not have had sight of the label.

    I suspect if a parcel label had been sent via Amazon messages, the buyer wouldn't be having this issue as Amazon would have visibility of the label.
    • Brynsam
    • By Brynsam 13th Jan 18, 9:43 AM
    • 274 Posts
    • 214 Thanks
    Brynsam
    As I said in post 8, Parcelforce offer a label-less collection service and will bring their own.

    I've used this myself for customers without access to a printer. The courier simply turns up and collects, but the the customer will not have had sight of the label.

    I suspect if a parcel label had been sent via Amazon messages, the buyer wouldn't be having this issue as Amazon would have visibility of the label.
    Originally posted by bxboards
    Quite so - which is why Dox's suggestion of a chronology makes such good sense, rather than speculation based on (understandably) piecemeal information from OP.
    • MissConStru
    • By MissConStru 13th Jan 18, 10:15 AM
    • 49 Posts
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    MissConStru
    OP, could I suggest you make a chronology of events, setting out key dates/events and send it to Amazon and to the seller?
    Originally posted by Dox
    I have been doing this since June!
    if you still get nowhere, wing it over to Tony Hetherington at the Mail, or Jessica Gorst at the Telegraph, and see if that gets you anywhere.
    Originally posted by Dox
    That's a great suggestion, thank you!
    I do think one thing which could be a problem is the length of time which has elapsed. Courier companies won't generally investigate things which took place longer than 3 or 4 weeks ago, so 4 or 5 months from the first 'returned' parcel in August may be a stumbling block. For that reason, I'd certainly get on with it as soon as possible.
    Originally posted by Dox
    This was complicated by
    • The amount of time it took the seller to send me the returns label (6 weeks)
    • The attempts by XPO to return the parcel to me instead of the seller (3 months)
    • The seller not responding to my emails asking if he'd received it back or not (still no reply)
    • the time wasted trying to research the whereabouts of the parcel after that (unsuccessful)
    As you said, very convoluted and frustrating!
    Last edited by MissConStru; 13-01-2018 at 10:28 AM.
    • MissConStru
    • By MissConStru 13th Jan 18, 10:26 AM
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    MissConStru
    Quite so - which is why Dox's suggestion of a chronology makes such good sense, rather than speculation based on (understandably) piecemeal information from OP.
    Originally posted by Brynsam
    I quite understand your comment here but at present, my diary of events now spans 12 pages!
    • Dox
    • By Dox 13th Jan 18, 11:06 AM
    • 125 Posts
    • 81 Thanks
    Dox
    The amount of time it took the seller to send me the returns label (6 weeks)[*]The attempts by XPO to return the parcel to me instead of the seller (3 months)[*]The seller not responding to my emails asking if he'd received it back or not (still no reply)[*]the time wasted trying to research the whereabouts of the parcel after that (unsuccessful)[/LIST][/INDENT]As you said, very convoluted and frustrating!
    by MissConStru;73709293[*
    That's just the sort of relevant information a chronology would highlight beautifully without the need for you to do any finger-pointing. Sounds as if you have excellent record keeping skills - good luck!
    • RFW
    • By RFW 13th Jan 18, 7:09 PM
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    RFW
    As I said in post 8, Parcelforce offer a label-less collection service and will bring their own.

    I've used this myself for customers without access to a printer. The courier simply turns up and collects, but the the customer will not have had sight of the label.

    I suspect if a parcel label had been sent via Amazon messages, the buyer wouldn't be having this issue as Amazon would have visibility of the label.
    Originally posted by bxboards
    That's not how Amazon works though. The return needs to go through Amazon whether the seller has provided it or not. It may be that the OP (opening poster) didn't go through the "request return authorisation" route. The onus is still on the seller though so it seems odd that the OP has had this problem.

    As a seller there are a few ways to authorise a return, these are the options Amazon give
    I will provide a pre-paid postage label for this request.
    I would like Amazon to provide an un-paid mailing label.
    Do not show a postage label for this request.


    If I was arranging a Parcelforce collection, even if I'd instructed Parcelforce to collect and bring their own label I'd put the tracking in the Amazon system and upload the label, that label would be emailed to the buyer. The buyer does have the tracking anyway as it was mentioned in the first post.
    .
    • RFW
    • By RFW 13th Jan 18, 7:16 PM
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    RFW
    I quite understand your comment here but at present, my diary of events now spans 12 pages!
    Originally posted by MissConStru
    Simplify the pertinent points for Amazon.
    1) Purchased item
    2) Discovered it was not fit for purpose
    3) Requested return
    4) Waited for return label
    5) Parcel collected from me by Parcelforce
    6) Failed delivery attempts made
    7) Return attempts made, I did not accept and do not require.
    8) Contacted seller, multiple times with no response.
    9) Contacted Amazon, refund refused, despite their A to Z guarantee promising me a refund no matter what the problem.

    Now I suggest you send this to Amazon via Twitter if possible (get a close friend or relative to do it if you can't do it yourself.

    The beginning bits are almost irrelevant now, the fact that the seller is unresponsive is the key, also that Amazon guarantee you a refund and, in this instance they haven't kept their guarantee.

    Knowing how Amazon works I'd bet that if everything is as mentioned then they will refund within 24 hours of getting a Tweet.
    .
    • MissConStru
    • By MissConStru 14th Jan 18, 11:40 AM
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    MissConStru
    Your answer is SO very helpful. I cannot express my gratitude enough! I'll do as you suggest and see what happens!
    • MissConStru
    • By MissConStru 14th Jan 18, 11:47 AM
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    MissConStru
    That's not how Amazon works though. The return needs to go through Amazon whether the seller has provided it or not. It may be that the OP (opening poster) didn't go through the "request return authorisation" route. The onus is still on the seller though so it seems odd that the OP has had this problem.
    Originally posted by RFW
    You know, I think you're right there. I contacted the seller direct (via the Amazon site) and got this response from the seller.
    "I will provide a pre-paid postage label for this request."
    But from what you are saying, it was obviously outside their protocol and it seems like it was the seller that arranged the Parcel Force pick-up as I certainly didn't!
    Last edited by MissConStru; 14-01-2018 at 11:50 AM.
    • MissConStru
    • By MissConStru 14th Jan 18, 2:08 PM
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    MissConStru
    I have some news! Due to everyone's excellent advice, I did what I should have done right from the start! I did a bit of digging in my messages in Amazon and found this

    - July 28: a message from the seller agreeing to give me a refund
    - July 15: a message from Parcel Force which included their tracking number and the address which they had been instructed to deliver it to

    Would I be correct in assuming this will make a difference to the A-Z claim department?

    I shall keep digging in the hopes of finding the returns label.
    Last edited by MissConStru; 14-01-2018 at 2:11 PM.
    • RFW
    • By RFW 14th Jan 18, 5:47 PM
    • 8,548 Posts
    • 4,989 Thanks
    RFW
    I have some news! Due to everyone's excellent advice, I did what I should have done right from the start! I did a bit of digging in my messages in Amazon and found this

    - July 28: a message from the seller agreeing to give me a refund
    - July 15: a message from Parcel Force which included their tracking number and the address which they had been instructed to deliver it to

    Would I be correct in assuming this will make a difference to the A-Z claim department?

    I shall keep digging in the hopes of finding the returns label.
    Originally posted by MissConStru
    You should still be able to track the parcel on the Parcelforce website. What that says will be the most helpful to your case. If the seller has left the country that's not your problem, Amazon should cover you. As long as it is tracked at being attempted to be delivered I would have said you had a strong case moving forward.

    They're usually pretty good at refunding whether the seller is cooperative or not.

    If you don't get it resolved via Amazon contact your local Trading Standards office via your local council and ask them to help.
    .
    • MissConStru
    • By MissConStru 14th Jan 18, 9:38 PM
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    MissConStru
    You should still be able to track the parcel on the Parcelforce website.
    Originally posted by RFW
    Tried that but it's almost 7 months ago and the PF site says that numbers over 4 months old are no longer available to view.
    • kingfisherblue
    • By kingfisherblue 17th Jan 18, 4:46 PM
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    kingfisherblue
    I've just read this thread with interest. I had a problem with an item before Christmas (not the same problem, bt that's irrelevant). I was so frustrated that I did two things - I posted on the Amazon UK Facebook site that I was very disappointed with their service and very surprised as it is unusual to have poor customer service from them, and I also emailed the CEO (sheer frustration!).

    On the FB page, I was asked to describe the problem, and once I had done that, I was asked to fill in a link that was sent to me. A chap then rang me (not the usual CS, but one dedicated to dealing with problems raised on FB). No disrespect is meant here, but this chap was Irish, rather than someone who does not have English as their first language. He dealt with the problem quickly and efficiently, and within twenty four hours, it was sorted to my satisfaction (partly his dealings, and partly pure chance). I received a credit to my account by way of apology (£15 - the original order was £52).

    The following day, I received an email from the office of the CEO. They acknowledged that they could see that the problem had been sorted out and that I had received a credit, but also offered their own apologies, and credited my account with a further £10.

    It may be worth contacting either or both, in an attempt to get things sorted.
    • MissConStru
    • By MissConStru 17th Jan 18, 5:05 PM
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    MissConStru
    Thank you, thank you! They've just sent me an email saying that if I contacted them again they wouldn't respond!

    I've looked for the CEO information but so far haven't had any success. Can you give me his contact details?
    • MissConStru
    • By MissConStru 17th Jan 18, 11:40 PM
    • 49 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    MissConStru
    kingfisherblue, I just made a post on FaceBook and within an hour I had a response from someone on Amazon! Not going to hold my breath but it's a start!
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