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    • stinky_docker
    • By stinky_docker 12th Jan 18, 10:46 AM
    • 39Posts
    • 5Thanks
    stinky_docker
    Evicting a Troublesome Tenant
    • #1
    • 12th Jan 18, 10:46 AM
    Evicting a Troublesome Tenant 12th Jan 18 at 10:46 AM
    Hello All,

    I need some urgent and sensible/legal advice for evicting a right sh!!bag of a tenant.

    My elderly mother bought a house to rent out as a means of supplementing her retirement. The tenant is a private tenant who has failed to pay rent for over 4 months.

    My mother served him with a section 21 notice late last year, he should've been out by Jan 18 but hasn't left yet. I now need to find out the most efficient way to get him evicted/out of the property?

    Is some form of eviction order/notice the best step?

    Also, he is self-employed so often leaves the property vacant whilst at work, I'm assuming he would be classed as a squatter as his tenancy has lapsed so could I go and "Secure the vacant property/change locks/board up exits" when its empty? would this be legal..?

    I need to pry into the minds of the savvy landlords in order to free my elderly mother of this burden and send her on a cruise to enjoy retirement as opposed to the huge stress she's experiencing right now.

    A little background info:

    1) He's self-employed and not in receipt of welfare.
    2) He has access to his children who occasionally stay over but not custody so I can't imagine could play the family card.
    3) He is a low life and will stoop at nothing to prolong this nonsense.
    4) At some point, I'd like to seek to recover every expense he's caused my mother so any further advice on that would be appreciated.


    Thanks for any help, you'd be making a hard working old girl very happy if I can get this low-life out of her property.

    Thanks
    Andy
Page 1
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 12th Jan 18, 10:55 AM
    • 1,798 Posts
    • 1,639 Thanks
    Comms69
    • #2
    • 12th Jan 18, 10:55 AM
    • #2
    • 12th Jan 18, 10:55 AM
    Hello All,

    I need some urgent and sensible/legal advice for evicting a right sh!!bag of a tenant. - You'll get honest and correct advice, I'm not sure about urgent or sensible though!

    My elderly mother bought a house to rent out as a means of supplementing her retirement. The tenant is a private tenant who has failed to pay rent for over 4 months. - How long has he/she been in the property?

    My mother served him with a section 21 notice late last year, he should've been out by Jan 18 but hasn't left yet. - That's not what a s.21 is. The fact you think it is suggests it may be an invalid notice. I now need to find out the most efficient way to get him evicted/out of the property? - there is only one way, via the courts. (well or pay him/her to leave, but I doubt you want to do that, thought it may be quicker and cheaper)

    Is some form of eviction order/notice the best step? - hopefully she issued a valid notice, the s.21

    Also, he is self-employed so often leaves the property vacant whilst at work, I'm assuming he would be classed as a squatter as his tenancy has lapsed so could I go and "Secure the vacant property/change locks/board up exits" when its empty? would this be legal..? - Definetely not! he is a tenant. Why would you think hes a squatter? His tenancy hasn't lapsed at all! - just fyi it would be a criminal matter which your dear old mum could end up arrested for!

    I need to pry into the minds of the savvy landlords in order to free my elderly mother of this burden and send her on a cruise to enjoy retirement as opposed to the huge stress she's experiencing right now. - Then start eviction proceedings now

    A little background info:

    1) He's self-employed and not in receipt of welfare. - irrelevant
    2) He has access to his children who occasionally stay over but not custody so I can't imagine could play the family card. - irrelavnt (no such card exists)
    3) He is a low life and will stoop at nothing to prolong this nonsense. - Irrelevant, he has rights.
    4) At some point, I'd like to seek to recover every expense he's caused my mother so any further advice on that would be appreciated. - You can recover rent is you go via small claims court (well your mum can, you cant do anything)


    Thanks for any help, you'd be making a hard working old girl very happy if I can get this low-life out of her property.

    Thanks
    Andy
    Originally posted by stinky_docker

    Average eviction takes 40 weeks.


    Check the s.21 is valid. Issue s.8.


    Check the deposit is protected. Gas safety up to date. EPC provided. Renters guide provided.
    • Red-Squirrel
    • By Red-Squirrel 12th Jan 18, 10:56 AM
    • 2,178 Posts
    • 6,004 Thanks
    Red-Squirrel
    • #3
    • 12th Jan 18, 10:56 AM
    • #3
    • 12th Jan 18, 10:56 AM
    Even sweet old elderly ladies should make sure they understand the law relating to renting/tenants before they embark on BTL.

    No you can't just change the locks, that would be an illegal eviction.

    A section 21 doesn't end the tenancy.

    Read these guides, every word:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5180214
    • marliepanda
    • By marliepanda 12th Jan 18, 10:58 AM
    • 5,036 Posts
    • 10,213 Thanks
    marliepanda
    • #4
    • 12th Jan 18, 10:58 AM
    • #4
    • 12th Jan 18, 10:58 AM
    Hello All,

    I need some urgent and sensible/legal advice for evicting a right sh!!bag of a tenant.

    My elderly mother bought a house to rent out as a means of supplementing her retirement. The tenant is a private tenant who has failed to pay rent for over 4 months.

    My mother served him with a section 21 notice late last year, he should've been out by Jan 18 but hasn't left yet. I now need to find out the most efficient way to get him evicted/out of the property? A section 21 is a notice of intention to evict, he did not need to leave at the expiry, and its not the 18th yet anyway.

    Is some form of eviction order/notice the best step? yes she needs to go to court to evict him IF the sectin 21 is valid and he doesnt leave at the end.

    Also, he is self-employed so often leaves the property vacant whilst at work, I'm assuming he would be classed as a squatter as his tenancy has lapsed so could I go and "Secure the vacant property/change locks/board up exits" when its empty? would this be legal..? 1. The tenancy hasn't lapsed, it is the 12th. 2. Until a tenancy is severed by court order of course you cannot go in and change the locks. Of course this is illegal.

    I need to pry into the minds of the savvy landlords in order to free my elderly mother of this burden and send her on a cruise to enjoy retirement as opposed to the huge stress she's experiencing right now. Probably shouldnt have gone into the landlord business then...

    A little background info:

    1) He's self-employed and not in receipt of welfare. And?
    2) He has access to his children who occasionally stay over but not custody so I can't imagine could play the family card. And?
    3) He is a low life and will stoop at nothing to prolong this nonsense. And?
    4) At some point, I'd like to seek to recover every expense he's caused my mother so any further advice on that would be appreciated.


    Thanks for any help, you'd be making a hard working old girl very happy if I can get this low-life out of her property.

    Thanks
    Andy
    Originally posted by stinky_docker
    My comments in red above...

    Firstly your mother is a landlord and this is her tenant, all this 'old girl, elderly, hard working' vs 'low life, ****bag' She chose to rent a house, she took the risks.

    Secondly, I suggest she looks into the legal side of her business. Has she protected his deposit (if there was one)
    Last edited by marliepanda; 12-01-2018 at 11:03 AM.
    Survey Earnings 2017 - £163
    • stinky_docker
    • By stinky_docker 12th Jan 18, 11:20 AM
    • 39 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    stinky_docker
    • #5
    • 12th Jan 18, 11:20 AM
    • #5
    • 12th Jan 18, 11:20 AM
    Thanks for the replies so far.

    I'll apologise if things weren't clear, I'm simply passing on what I've been told and I wholeheartedly agree that she should have never have got involved in rental property its safe to say she believes the same.

    I'm quite sure the s.21 is all correct, she was in court late last year with this matter and that was the result.

    Is the next step an eviction order?
    • Red-Squirrel
    • By Red-Squirrel 12th Jan 18, 11:22 AM
    • 2,178 Posts
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    Red-Squirrel
    • #6
    • 12th Jan 18, 11:22 AM
    • #6
    • 12th Jan 18, 11:22 AM

    Is the next step an eviction order?
    Originally posted by stinky_docker
    Read. The. Guides.


    Seriously, all the info you need is in there.
    • bxboards
    • By bxboards 12th Jan 18, 11:25 AM
    • 1,345 Posts
    • 1,052 Thanks
    bxboards
    • #7
    • 12th Jan 18, 11:25 AM
    • #7
    • 12th Jan 18, 11:25 AM
    You will need to apply to court for the eviction.

    BTW Jan 18th hasn't happened yet, it's the 12th so still has 6 days to go.

    I imagine the temptation would be to get together a few people to turf out all his stuff into the garden and change the locks - this would be illegal, but the chances of the police trying to stop you doing this would be zero if you have an eviction notice.
    • marliepanda
    • By marliepanda 12th Jan 18, 11:27 AM
    • 5,036 Posts
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    marliepanda
    • #8
    • 12th Jan 18, 11:27 AM
    • #8
    • 12th Jan 18, 11:27 AM
    Thanks for the replies so far.

    I'll apologise if things weren't clear, I'm simply passing on what I've been told and I wholeheartedly agree that she should have never have got involved in rental property its safe to say she believes the same.

    I'm quite sure the s.21 is all correct, she was in court late last year with this matter and that was the result.

    Is the next step an eviction order?
    Originally posted by stinky_docker
    She went to court and the court issued a s21?

    Are you sure you have all this straight?

    The s21 hasnt expired yet (if it has been correctly issued) and therefore there is no next step until it expires.
    Survey Earnings 2017 - £163
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 12th Jan 18, 11:34 AM
    • 1,798 Posts
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    Comms69
    • #9
    • 12th Jan 18, 11:34 AM
    • #9
    • 12th Jan 18, 11:34 AM
    You will need to apply to court for the eviction.

    BTW Jan 18th hasn't happened yet, it's the 12th so still has 6 days to go.

    I imagine the temptation would be to get together a few people to turf out all his stuff into the garden and change the locks - this would be illegal, but the chances of the police trying to stop you doing this would be zero if you have an eviction notice.
    Originally posted by bxboards


    That's just not true on ANY level. Stop giving such bad advice.


    Even with a possession order, only bailiffs can evict.


    The simple fact is you just suggested the OP commit a criminal offence which could lead to prison time, however unlikely, and certainly has very significant criminal and civil financial penalties (as well as criminal record for the LL)
    • elsien
    • By elsien 12th Jan 18, 11:38 AM
    • 15,667 Posts
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    elsien
    What exactly did she go to court for? What was the outcome?
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
    • stinky_docker
    • By stinky_docker 12th Jan 18, 11:50 AM
    • 39 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    stinky_docker
    She has issued S.8 & S.21, I believe she went to court to get the papers/advice.

    I'll have a look through the guides but just at work, again apologises for the somewhat confused or disrupted statements, I know she has followed steps correctly to evict him and now the S.21 has reached its two months point (Jan 18 refers to the month/year).
    Thanks so far
    Andy
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 12th Jan 18, 11:52 AM
    • 1,798 Posts
    • 1,639 Thanks
    Comms69
    She has issued S.8 & S.21, I believe she went to court to get the papers/advice.

    I'll have a look through the guides but just at work, again apologises for the somewhat confused or disrupted statements, I know she has followed steps correctly to evict him and now the S.21 has reached its two months point (Jan 18 refers to the month/year).
    Thanks so far
    Andy
    Originally posted by stinky_docker


    the day is pretty important too!


    In anycase, the next step is to apply for a possession order.
    • marliepanda
    • By marliepanda 12th Jan 18, 11:52 AM
    • 5,036 Posts
    • 10,213 Thanks
    marliepanda
    She has issued S.8 & S.21, I believe she went to court to get the papers/advice.

    I'll have a look through the guides but just at work, again apologises for the somewhat confused or disrupted statements, I know she has followed steps correctly to evict him and now the S.21 has reached its two months point (Jan 18 refers to the month/year).
    Thanks so far
    Andy
    Originally posted by stinky_docker
    What do you know about his deposit?

    Section 21s give dates, not months and years. What is the date of the s21?
    Survey Earnings 2017 - £163
    • fairy lights
    • By fairy lights 12th Jan 18, 11:54 AM
    • 8,408 Posts
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    fairy lights
    OP - please tell me your mother correctly protected the tenants deposit?
    • G_M
    • By G_M 12th Jan 18, 12:02 PM
    • 42,801 Posts
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    G_M
    It's impossible to advise properrly as your statements are vague. Since you do not know exactly what has happened so far, it's impossible for us to know!

    Please check the following

    1) date S21 was served
    2) date S21 expired
    3) was the S21 valid. See
    S21 checklist (Is a S21 valid?)
    4) date landlord went to court - was this for 'advice' or for a possession hearing? What was the outcome?
    5) date S8 served? level or arrears on that date?
    6) date expired?
    7) date went to court and outcome?
    level or arrears on that date

    Read also

    * Ending/renewing an AST: what happens when a fixed term ends? How can a LL or tenant end a tenancy? What is a periodic tenancy?
    • Cakeguts
    • By Cakeguts 12th Jan 18, 12:40 PM
    • 3,545 Posts
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    Cakeguts
    You mother's tenant has a tenancy until the bailiffs evict them. The s21 does not end the tenancy. Do not intefere with the right of the tenant to live at the property. Do not go round there and threaten them do not go round there and try to make them leave the property. They have the right to live there until they are asked to leave by the bailiffs.

    I would suggest that when you mother finally gets possession of the property that she sells it and finds a different way to supplement her pension. Being a landlord is a business and as with all businesses you have to know how the law for that business operates. From what you have written it sounds as if your mother didn't do any work on finding out.
    • landlord2016
    • By landlord2016 12th Jan 18, 2:06 PM
    • 45 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    landlord2016
    I understand that you face a difficult time . The following link may help you.

    http://www.propertyinvestmentproject.co.uk/blog/evicting-tenants/

    https://www.landlordlaw.co.uk/landlords/tips/tessas-ten-top-tips-landlords-evicting-tenants

    http://www.lawpack.co.uk/landlord-and-tenancy/eviction-notices/articles/article867.asp

    http://www.secondproperty.co.uk/how-to-effectively-evict-a-troublesome-tenant/

    https://www.gov.uk/evicting-tenants

    https://www.sampsoncoward.co.uk/what-we-do/property/tenancies-eviction/evicting-your-tenant
    Last edited by landlord2016; 12-01-2018 at 2:09 PM.
    • agrinnall
    • By agrinnall 12th Jan 18, 2:32 PM
    • 19,188 Posts
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    agrinnall
    I very much doubt if any of that is more helpful that G_M's tried and tested links, and would recommend that the OP (and his mother) read and comprehend the latter.
    • stinky_docker
    • By stinky_docker 12th Jan 18, 2:43 PM
    • 39 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    stinky_docker
    Thanks everyone for the help so far, I've been able to establish the following:

    Tenant signed an assured shorthold tenancy agreement on the 4th Sept 2017.

    This agreement states a security deposit of £480 was taken, lists various particulars such as returning it in full at the end of the tenancy less damages to the property, the tenant signed and dated this agreement on the 4th Sept 2017.

    He then subsequently failed to uphold his side of the agreement, hasn't paid any rent etc

    s.8 served on 05/10/17 in writing to tenant

    s.21 served on 06/11/17 again in writing to the tenant, expired 06/01/18

    The Court paperwork I alluded to was the forms PREPARED ready for submission, court papers are "Claim form for possession of property (accelerated procedure) (assured shorthold tenancy). Costs on the form state £355, these are yet to be submitted.

    You can rest assured I will be advising her in the strongest terms to sell the property or put it into the hands of a letting agent (Sale been my preference).

    Reading the various advice I'm sure everything is in order, she has maintained the property fire alarms gas certificates etc, I understand she now needs to submit the court paperwork and pay her fee and awaiting the outcome.

    Another question if I may, can she, once this whole sorry episode is over, pursue the tenant for costs/rent arrears etc, he is self-employed and I've learned today has a history of this type of behaviour (Is not in receipt of welfare so cannot try to slide out of it on these conditions)? If so whats the mechanism? Is it small claims or CCJ..?

    Thanks again
    Andy
    • saajan_12
    • By saajan_12 12th Jan 18, 2:47 PM
    • 1,039 Posts
    • 694 Thanks
    saajan_12
    1) Check the Section 21 notice is valid (there's a long checklist of things to verify, including deposit protected, dates correct..)

    2) Check the section 8 notice is correct and the rent arrears exceed 2 months' rent.

    3) Once one/both of the notices have expired, apply to court for a possession order. For S8, if the arrears are below 2 months on the date of the possession hearing, the judge has the discretion whether / not to give the possession order.

    4) Once you get a possession order, wait for the date to pass. IF they don't you can't kick them out.

    5) Once the possession date passes, apply for bailiffs and wait for the date.

    6) Provide the bailiffs with a key, they can remove the tenant when they visit the property.

    You could still have another few months to go, longer if the S21 / S8 notice turns out to be invalid and you have to start again.

    Other losses
    - At any time you can file a monetary claim for rent arrears
    - After the tenant has left you can file a claim for property damage if any is not covered by the deposit
    - You can claim court costs and bailiff costs from the tenant provided these were unavoidable (ie not duplicated / higher fees if you ask for extra provisions, have incorrect paperwork so have to file again etc)

    However this is notoriously hard to actually collect on, especially if the tenant is self employed. So you may want to decide whether it's worth putting in good money after bad.
    Last edited by saajan_12; 12-01-2018 at 2:49 PM.
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