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  • FIRST POST
    • PerfectPony
    • By PerfectPony 11th Jan 18, 8:52 PM
    • 21Posts
    • 9Thanks
    PerfectPony
    Greedy Sister!!
    • #1
    • 11th Jan 18, 8:52 PM
    Greedy Sister!! 11th Jan 18 at 8:52 PM
    My Mum divorced my Father when I was about 8. My Grandparents basically bought me up! Mum has always promised a 50/50 split when she passed....this is going back over 20 years. When my Mum was dying of cancer my sister 'drove her' to have her will changed to give her a rent free 'Life interest trust'. My sister is a waster and spent our grandparents inheritance on a 'round the world trip', I spent mine of a degree? It's not just the money its the principle, to get a dying, heavily drugged woman to change their will in their favour??? My mum couldn't look at my sister for the last weeks before her death and that is why I am fighting it? Would appreciate any support or similar incidents??
Page 2
    • Margot123
    • By Margot123 12th Jan 18, 7:07 PM
    • 519 Posts
    • 525 Thanks
    Margot123
    She will soon realise that a big house is very very expensive to run. Mine sits empty pending a sale and the gas alone costs nearly £8 per day just at the minimum required for the insurance. Not to mention the council tax and other bills!

    She'll soon run into trouble and do a runner.
    Well, that's what my brother did in a similar situation. I thought he'd be there forever but one day he just vanished.
    • lincroft1710
    • By lincroft1710 12th Jan 18, 7:52 PM
    • 10,181 Posts
    • 8,273 Thanks
    lincroft1710
    My sister is 50 and I turn 50 in July, she smokes 60 a day!!!
    Originally posted by PerfectPony
    60 a day probably means she's on borrowed time.
    • Sea Shell
    • By Sea Shell 14th Jan 18, 8:03 AM
    • 458 Posts
    • 466 Thanks
    Sea Shell
    When did your sister move in? Did anyone say she could, or did she just decide to, because she knew the contents of the will?

    Maybe someone can clarify at what point does a beneficiary have the authority to move into an inherited property....from date of death, or from probate granted etc. (regardless of any 'life interest' - or does the existence of a life interest have a bearing in the early days)
    " That pound I saved yesterday, is a pound I don't have to earn tomorrow "
    • PerfectPony
    • By PerfectPony 14th Jan 18, 1:19 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    PerfectPony
    Good Point!
    Poor Mum wasn't even cold when she announced she had handed her notice in on the rental property! I feel so hopeless, is the place a dump? Has she moved in one of her psycho ex boyfriends......It is a living nightmare which is causing me enormous stress.
    • Sea Shell
    • By Sea Shell 14th Jan 18, 1:36 PM
    • 458 Posts
    • 466 Thanks
    Sea Shell
    TBH, if you dont 'need' the money ( which you're unlikely to see any of anyway)...I'd be tempted to do a deed of variation and gift my 50% to the sister and wash my hands of it all. What if major repairs are needed, you're currently on the hook for (at least) 50% as it stands.
    " That pound I saved yesterday, is a pound I don't have to earn tomorrow "
    • Margot123
    • By Margot123 14th Jan 18, 3:10 PM
    • 519 Posts
    • 525 Thanks
    Margot123
    Poor Mum wasn't even cold when she announced she had handed her notice in on the rental property! I feel so hopeless, is the place a dump? Has she moved in one of her psycho ex boyfriends......It is a living nightmare which is causing me enormous stress.
    Originally posted by PerfectPony
    If you check back through my threads from July/August 2017, you will see I went through the exact same thing.
    My Brother and your sister appear to be of similar 'character'.

    Have faith, it will turn out OK in the end. It may not seem it now but they have to give in once their debts mount up and certain people are chasing them.
    Bit of mess to sort afterwards but it will be worth the wait.
    • Red-Squirrel
    • By Red-Squirrel 14th Jan 18, 11:01 PM
    • 2,167 Posts
    • 5,974 Thanks
    Red-Squirrel
    It is the thought of a vulnerable, dying woman being bullied into changing her will.
    Originally posted by PerfectPony
    How to respond? I purchased my first house in my twenties. worrying about keeping my job, paying the bills blah, blah...My sister has either squatted with parents, grandparents or rented a small manageable property. If you work hard and love space 'fill your boots' If you have no ambition and are happy to drift through life, it's a big shock having large financial obligations. Work hard, live large !!!!
    Originally posted by PerfectPony
    These two don't really match up, its not actually about your poor mum being bullied is it?

    If it is and I'm wrong, why not save your sanity and your money (because you are very unlikely to actually win any challenge) and let it go, seeing as you already have a home thanks to your hard work and don't need the house?
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 15th Jan 18, 2:11 AM
    • 31,168 Posts
    • 18,681 Thanks
    getmore4less
    I sympathize with you. Although even if you can get the will 'thrown out' then you still have the problem of your sister still living in the property. Unless at the same time the court demand the property sold. Even without the life interest, you'll still own 50/50, with her occupying. Good luck!
    Originally posted by Sea Shell
    That is not how life interest trust work

    The remaindermen beneficiaries own nothing.
    • Sea Shell
    • By Sea Shell 15th Jan 18, 6:41 AM
    • 458 Posts
    • 466 Thanks
    Sea Shell
    That is not how life interest trust work

    The remaindermen beneficiaries own nothing.
    Originally posted by getmore4less
    Sorry, i may have mis-read...

    I thought they'd been left it 50/50 with a life interest for the Sister. But having re-read the OP, maybe not, maybe the whole house has been left to the Sister. Maybe the OP can clarify.

    However, if she does fight and somehow manages to have the will 'revoked', then under intestacy they'd inherit 50/50 and she'd still have the problem of an occupying sister.

    So yes....if she hasn't inherited anything under the will....then i'd let it go, and let the sister get on with it.
    " That pound I saved yesterday, is a pound I don't have to earn tomorrow "
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 15th Jan 18, 9:41 AM
    • 31,168 Posts
    • 18,681 Thanks
    getmore4less
    Whatever has gone into the trust
    The trustees take legal ownership
    The beneficial ownership is with the life tenant.

    The remaindermen get their beneficial ownership when there is a trigger event that ends the trust, usually the death of the life tenant but there can be others.
    • Silvertabby
    • By Silvertabby 15th Jan 18, 9:59 AM
    • 2,121 Posts
    • 2,818 Thanks
    Silvertabby
    My sympathies. My circumstances are a little different, in that my sister was living in the house when dad died. I knew that it had been mum's wish to leave the house to both of us but, after she died, my sister pursuaded dad to leave the house to her alone - as it was her home, and I was married with our own home.

    In hindsight, that was the best thing for me. The house was in a bad state of repair - it really needed taking back to bare brick in places - and my sister didn't have the money to do anything about it. Had the house been left to us both equally, it would have been on the condition that she lived in it and I paid for the repairs and utility bills.

    She lost the lot when she went bankrupt a year or two later.
    Last edited by Silvertabby; 15-01-2018 at 10:17 AM.
    • PerfectPony
    • By PerfectPony 15th Jan 18, 1:44 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    PerfectPony
    Principle!!
    I loved my Mum very much and I think her last months on the planet should have been loving and enjoyable. Not subject to bullying into changing her will.

    Yes I work and have my own home, my sister also works. Why should I be disadvantaged by a sister who is lazy and used her past inheritance on a world trip.

    I have a hefty mortgage an 8 year old and many commitments. The point I was trying to make is that if you work hard you should be entitled to live as you wish, and if you aren't don't expect to get it for nothing!!!
    • PerfectPony
    • By PerfectPony 15th Jan 18, 1:49 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    PerfectPony
    The Life Interest Trust allows my sister to live in the house for 20 years and to be responsible for all 'upkeep, bills and maintenance' during that time. If she leaves the house empty for more than 3 months the Trust is broken.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 15th Jan 18, 2:07 PM
    • 31,168 Posts
    • 18,681 Thanks
    getmore4less
    Who are the trustees?
    • PerfectPony
    • By PerfectPony 15th Jan 18, 2:11 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    PerfectPony
    My sister and I
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 15th Jan 18, 2:13 PM
    • 31,168 Posts
    • 18,681 Thanks
    getmore4less
    Was the whole house put into the trust?

    Who are the remainder men?
    • PerfectPony
    • By PerfectPony 15th Jan 18, 2:17 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    PerfectPony
    If I die 25% goes to my 8 year old son. If she dies I get 50% and the further 50% goes to her heirs, which would seem unlikely as she is single and over 50!!
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 15th Jan 18, 3:01 PM
    • 31,168 Posts
    • 18,681 Thanks
    getmore4less
    The wording for trust failure due to not maintaining the property or hitting the 20y trigger is potentially the more important than deaths.

    The wording for her leaving no issue will also be important.
    • Malthusian
    • By Malthusian 15th Jan 18, 3:49 PM
    • 3,571 Posts
    • 5,493 Thanks
    Malthusian
    If your sister browbeat your dying mother into changing her Will while heavily drugged, why didn't she get her to simply leave her the entire house, instead of a 20 year life interest?

    That doesn't sound like something a lazy waster with psycho ex boyfriends who smokes 60 a day would come up with on their own.

    It sounds like the Will was professionally drawn up if it involves a 20 year life interest trust, and challenging the Will is unlikely to win you anything. The solicitor who drew it up will have ensured that your mother had capacity to change her Will. The threshold for proving "undue influence" is extremely high.

    At some point either the sister will leave when the costs of maintaining it become too much, at which point (assuming the remaindermen are the two of you) you can sell it and split the proceeds 50/50 as you wanted. Or the 60 cigs a day will finish her, at which point you get the lot, assuming your sister hasn't married or adopted some orphans.

    Your mother may have figured that this way one daughter gets security for what is likely to be the rest of her life, and the other daughter gets 100% of the property at the end of that period.

    The point I was trying to make is that if you work hard you should be entitled to live as you wish
    You don't seem to think your mother was entitled to live as she wished - by disposing of her own property as she wanted, in a way that benefits both of her children (eventually). Did she not work hard enough?
    Last edited by Malthusian; 15-01-2018 at 3:51 PM.
    • PerfectPony
    • By PerfectPony 15th Jan 18, 5:18 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    PerfectPony
    Sorry Malthusian, I think you misunderstood me, my Mother worked hard all her life, my point was about my sister making no provision for herself and 'frittering' her earlier inheritance. My Mum had promised a 50/50 split for over twenty years as can be verified from her earlier wills. If she had wanted my sister to have the property we would have discussed it, we spent ages discussing her funeral arrangements etc. The first thing I said to my sister when my Mum passed was that I was happy to split the house 60/40 or even 70/30 as I already have a home. How naive I was, I think Mum raised the Life Interest Trust to stop the arguments and keep the peace. Please bear in mind I live over three hours away and have an 8 year old son and my husband works very long hours
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