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    • consumers_revenge
    • By consumers_revenge 11th Jan 18, 2:08 PM
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    consumers_revenge
    Pre MOTs
    • #1
    • 11th Jan 18, 2:08 PM
    Pre MOTs 11th Jan 18 at 2:08 PM
    Hi,


    With the new rules regarding not being able to drive on a current MOT certificate if you have taken it in and its failed its next MOT do garages still ever do a PRE MOT? eg do a full test but not do the actual MOT test therefore giving you the chance to rectify the work to get it to pass.


    Few years back they used to do that round our way but the garage has gone now?


    Is this PRE MOT services unusual now?
Page 1
    • DUTR
    • By DUTR 11th Jan 18, 2:24 PM
    • 11,140 Posts
    • 6,357 Thanks
    DUTR
    • #2
    • 11th Jan 18, 2:24 PM
    • #2
    • 11th Jan 18, 2:24 PM
    Hi,


    With the new rules regarding not being able to drive on a current MOT certificate if you have taken it in and its failed its next MOT do garages still ever do a PRE MOT? eg do a full test but not do the actual MOT test therefore giving you the chance to rectify the work to get it to pass.


    Few years back they used to do that round our way but the garage has gone now?


    Is this PRE MOT services unusual now?
    Originally posted by consumers_revenge
    What new rules are those then?
    Some not yet passed do not render the car dangerously unroadworthy, there is a big difference there, and common sense and lack of ignorance would preceed over a garage trying to make a few quid.
    • Eldog
    • By Eldog 11th Jan 18, 3:44 PM
    • 6 Posts
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    Eldog
    • #3
    • 11th Jan 18, 3:44 PM
    • #3
    • 11th Jan 18, 3:44 PM
    You can still drive your vehicle if the existing MOT Certificate is still valid.
    • consumers_revenge
    • By consumers_revenge 11th Jan 18, 3:52 PM
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    consumers_revenge
    • #4
    • 11th Jan 18, 3:52 PM
    • #4
    • 11th Jan 18, 3:52 PM
    You can still drive your vehicle if the existing MOT Certificate is still valid.
    Originally posted by Eldog

    No you cant!


    Whilst the old MOT is still valid, the fact you fail a new one makes your car unroadworthy and you cant use it.


    Not a garage making a few quid but mine failed on some minorish welding and some bushes. They don't really weld though so it would have to go somewhere else. But as you have failed the MOT you cannot take it to the other place.


    With a pre MOT you know its failed but can go and get it fixed. If you didn't take it in early it would still be in the same state but you would just not know about it, if you see what I mean.
    • arcon5
    • By arcon5 11th Jan 18, 4:05 PM
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    arcon5
    • #5
    • 11th Jan 18, 4:05 PM
    • #5
    • 11th Jan 18, 4:05 PM
    The reality is the garage cannot refuse to hand back the car. And it wouldn't be good for business to do so.

    The reality is also that unless your driving round with a wheel dragging along the road there's no more chance of being pulled over after the fail than it was before.

    It has always been rules about using unroadworthy vehicles on public roads, rules not linked to mot. Road traffic act.
    • consumers_revenge
    • By consumers_revenge 11th Jan 18, 4:08 PM
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    consumers_revenge
    • #6
    • 11th Jan 18, 4:08 PM
    • #6
    • 11th Jan 18, 4:08 PM
    They gave the car back happily, they just don't really weld. so was going to get a quote somewhere else.


    The point of the pre mot question was a garage doing an MOT check to see if it would pass as such.
    • molerat
    • By molerat 11th Jan 18, 4:15 PM
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    molerat
    • #7
    • 11th Jan 18, 4:15 PM
    • #7
    • 11th Jan 18, 4:15 PM
    If you go for a pre mot and it fails you are in exactly the same position as if failing a real mot - it is not roadworthy and you know about it. I drove an "unroadworthy" car around for years and it always passed the mot so the term unroadworthy has many degrees. A previous post on here mentioned things like rear seatbelts and non opening rear doors with no rear seat passengers, unroadworthy but unlikely to get pulled for and very little consequence if it is picked up on a roadside check.
    www.helpforheroes.org.uk/donations.html
    • Eldog
    • By Eldog 11th Jan 18, 4:21 PM
    • 6 Posts
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    Eldog
    • #8
    • 11th Jan 18, 4:21 PM
    • #8
    • 11th Jan 18, 4:21 PM
    No you cant!
    Originally posted by consumers_revenge

    The Gov UK website states:
    "You can take your vehicle away if your MOT certificate is still valid.

    If your MOT has run out you can take your vehicle to:
    • have the failed defects fixed
    • a pre-arranged MOT test appointment"
    Obviously it still needs to be 'Road Worthy' so it would depend on how catastrophic your fail was?
    • Aretnap
    • By Aretnap 11th Jan 18, 4:41 PM
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    Aretnap
    • #9
    • 11th Jan 18, 4:41 PM
    • #9
    • 11th Jan 18, 4:41 PM
    There are no "new rules" - there was just a confused and confusing article in the Daily Fail or some similar newspaper. The situation is exactly the same as it always has been.

    Your MOT certificate remains valid for a year from your last test and there is no mechanism for revoking it, regardless of how bad your car's condition becomes over that period.

    Separate to that, you must not drive a car that has dangerous defects, regardless of whether it has an MOT or not.

    If your car has a dangerous defect (eg defective brakes) then that will cause it to fail an MOT and you shouldn't drive it away from the test centre - but you were also breaking the law by driving it to the test centre, and presumably by driving it around for the last couple of months as well.

    The only difference the failed MOT test makes is that you now can't claim not to know about the defect. Not knowing would not get you off a charge of driving a defective vehicle as it's a strict liability offence - but it might affect the penalty. The Road Traffic Offenders Act makes provision for you to get no points if you had no reasonable cause to suspect that the vehicle was defective (which could apply to, say, a brake defect that was only apparent on taking the car to pieces, though not to something like a defect that caused the car to judder alarmingly when you braked).

    However, if your car fails its "pre-MOT" then you also know about the defect, so you wouldn't be able to use that line of arguament and you'd be in exactly the same position as if it had failed a proper MOT. So why not just put it through a proper MOT?

    In practice use a bit of common sense. If the car fails because it has 4 bald tyres, brake pads worn down to the rivets and a steering column which is about to snap don't even think about driving it, and be glad that you got it tested when you did. OTOH if it fails on a damaged rear seatbelt, then drive it away and just don't use that seatbelt - you are likely commititing an obscure construction and use offence by driving with an unused defective seatbelt, but the risk of actually getting into trouble for it is surely infinitesimal.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 11th Jan 18, 4:55 PM
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    AdrianC
    ^ What Aretnap said.

    The short version is that so long as the old test has some time left on it, then you're just as legal driving it back from the test as you were driving to it.
    • wgl2014
    • By wgl2014 11th Jan 18, 5:05 PM
    • 495 Posts
    • 304 Thanks
    wgl2014
    ^ What Aretnap said.

    The short version is that so long as the old test has some time left on it, then you're just as legal driving it back from the test as you were driving to it.
    Originally posted by AdrianC
    (Which may still not be legal)
    • consumers_revenge
    • By consumers_revenge 11th Jan 18, 6:46 PM
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    consumers_revenge
    the fail on my proper MOT were some deteriorated bushes and some minor welding on the wheel arching. a fail I agree but not a dangerous fail according to the garage.


    why I asked about a 'pre mot' is I could have taken it up, been told, got a local car welder to do it, bring it back and pass it. same with any other bits, but in fairness depending on what it was I would just say 'do it' at the original garage.


    seems I could take it to the welder garage now ( he doesn't do MOTs at his garage ) https://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q600.htm


    looks like a moot point anyway now as having priced up the bits and labour its way too costly.
    • Joe Horner
    • By Joe Horner 11th Jan 18, 6:51 PM
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    Joe Horner
    The essence is that MOT failure points come under Construction and Use, and driving with MOT / C&U faults is an offence under one of several provisions of the Road Traffic Act.

    There is also a further provision of "Driving a vehicle in a dangerous condition" which does not necessarily involve MOT failure points and may be dependent on the full circumstances.

    That could be things like driving with no windscreen fitted (not an MOT fail but potentially dangerous depending on the circumstances), driving a vehicle with no lights fitted after dark (you'll get an MOT with all lights removed but mustn't drive in darkness or reduced visibility) , or driving with illegal bonnet mascots - again, no problem for an MOT but could be considered dangerous.

    As far as penalties are concerned, they're all fixed penalty but:
    • "Dangerous condition" is endorsable
    • Failure points concerning tyres, brakes or steering, are endorsable.
    • All other C&U faults are non-endorsable.

    It's very unlikely that anyone would issue an FPN for one of the non-endorsable C&U offences if an MOT was still in effect. They may issue a VDRN but the defect is (presumably) going to be rectified for the retest anyway, so that's no biggie if it happens.

    Some of the non-endorsable offences (such as rear seat belts) could become an endorsable "dangerous condition" depending on circumstances.
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