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    • vicki2221
    • By vicki2221 11th Jan 18, 11:07 AM
    • 120Posts
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    vicki2221
    Part of bedroom overhangs neighbours property
    • #1
    • 11th Jan 18, 11:07 AM
    Part of bedroom overhangs neighbours property 11th Jan 18 at 11:07 AM
    We are in the process of buying a semi detached cottage. Some inquiry forms have just come back from the vendor and she has noted that part of the 'dressing room', which is attached to the master bedroom, is actually located above the neighbour's living room. Would this cause us any potential problems? We were hoping to turn this dressing room into an en suite. Although it's not a deal breaker if we can't. I'm not sure if it would cause us problems with installing a bathroom, but even if not I assume they would able to hear water running and toilet flushing etc.
Page 1
    • G_M
    • By G_M 11th Jan 18, 11:27 AM
    • 42,776 Posts
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    G_M
    • #2
    • 11th Jan 18, 11:27 AM
    • #2
    • 11th Jan 18, 11:27 AM
    Potentially yes.

    It's a Flying Freehold.

    Some mortgage lenders will refuse to lend.

    And even if you pay cash, or find a lender, there are potential legal issues around liability for maintenance, rights and obligations to the other property owner, insurance etc.

    Set up an appointment with your solicitor to discuss the legal issues.

    Set up an appointment with your independant mortgage adviser to find an appropriate lender.
    • vicki2221
    • By vicki2221 11th Jan 18, 11:46 AM
    • 120 Posts
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    vicki2221
    • #3
    • 11th Jan 18, 11:46 AM
    • #3
    • 11th Jan 18, 11:46 AM
    Potentially yes.

    It's a Flying Freehold.

    Some mortgage lenders will refuse to lend.

    And even if you pay cash, or find a lender, there are potential legal issues around liability for maintenance, rights and obligations to the other property owner, insurance etc.

    Set up an appointment with your solicitor to discuss the legal issues.

    Set up an appointment with your independant mortgage adviser to find an appropriate lender.
    Originally posted by G_M
    Oh dear this sounds bad. We have booked an expensive building survey for tomorrow. I am guessing I should cancel that until I understand more about this. There is a cancellation fee but that's OK.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 11th Jan 18, 12:10 PM
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    G_M
    • #4
    • 11th Jan 18, 12:10 PM
    • #4
    • 11th Jan 18, 12:10 PM
    It may or may not be an issue. I said 'some lenders' and 'potential issues'.

    Some lenders will refuse.
    Some will lend if the % of floor space overhanging is less than X%.
    Some will lend subject to the legal issues being addressed.

    The legal issues may already be addresed. If for example there is a binding Deed in place between the two properties, setting out the respective rights and obligations and addressing insurance etc, then you should be fine.

    If there is nothing in place, and/or worse, a history of dispute between the owners, that would be diffeerent.....

    Might be worth postponing the survey till you know more.
    • Mossfarr
    • By Mossfarr 11th Jan 18, 12:18 PM
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    Mossfarr
    • #5
    • 11th Jan 18, 12:18 PM
    • #5
    • 11th Jan 18, 12:18 PM
    I own a property with a flying freehold.
    Never had any problem getting a mortgage and never had any issues (so far) regarding maintenance.
    Its much more common than you would expect so just get your solicitor to check everything thoroughly.
    I'm sure it will be fine - its probably changed ownership several times over the years without any problem!
    • kingstreet
    • By kingstreet 11th Jan 18, 12:21 PM
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    kingstreet
    • #6
    • 11th Jan 18, 12:21 PM
    • #6
    • 11th Jan 18, 12:21 PM
    You (and your potential future buyers) will have a smaller pool of lenders open to you with a partial flying freehold but there are still high street lender options available.
    I am a mortgage broker. You should note that this site doesn't check my status as a Mortgage Adviser, so you need to take my word for it. This signature is here as I follow MSE's Mortgage Adviser Code of Conduct. Any posts on here are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as financial advice. Please do not send PMs asking for one-to-one-advice, or representation.
    • Tom99
    • By Tom99 11th Jan 18, 12:35 PM
    • 1,014 Posts
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    Tom99
    • #7
    • 11th Jan 18, 12:35 PM
    • #7
    • 11th Jan 18, 12:35 PM
    I have a flying freehold. When I bought the property the vendor paid for an indemnity insurance policy which did not cost them that much.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 11th Jan 18, 12:45 PM
    • 42,776 Posts
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    G_M
    • #8
    • 11th Jan 18, 12:45 PM
    • #8
    • 11th Jan 18, 12:45 PM
    I have a flying freehold. When I bought the property the vendor paid for an indemnity insurance policy which did not cost them that much.
    Originally posted by Tom99
    Out of interest, what does the policy cover?

    In what circumstances can you claim?
    • Tom99
    • By Tom99 11th Jan 18, 12:51 PM
    • 1,014 Posts
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    Tom99
    • #9
    • 11th Jan 18, 12:51 PM
    • #9
    • 11th Jan 18, 12:51 PM
    Out of interest, what does the policy cover?

    In what circumstances can you claim?
    Originally posted by G_M
    This was 17 year ago so not really relevant now but I think it was about £200 which was for £50,000 of indemnity.
    I assume I could claim if there was ever a dispute over title.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 11th Jan 18, 12:59 PM
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    G_M
    I assume I could claim if there was ever a dispute over title.
    Originally posted by Tom99
    That's the bit I'd be interested in. So it would pay:

    * your legal costs to fight such a dispute?
    * and/or any loss in value of the property if you lost such a dispute? If so, how would this be calculated?
    * what about a dispute over maintenance costs? Or damage to your property resulting from work done (or not done!) to the property above/below yours?
    *what if you later found it hard/impossible to sell because of the FF? eg if mortgage lenders all tightened their rules so buyers could not borrow?
    .......??
    • vicki2221
    • By vicki2221 11th Jan 18, 1:00 PM
    • 120 Posts
    • 220 Thanks
    vicki2221
    This just received from solicitor:

    I confirm there is a flying freehold at the property where part of the first floor and roof of your property extends over the neighbouring property. The legal title to the property does contain necessary rights of support in relation to this flying freehold, but what it does not contain and which is expected in order to satisfy modern requirements, is what is called a Scheme of Enforceable Covenants whereby the owners of the respective properties are able to enforce obligations to ensure that the neighbouring property owner carries out maintenance obligations.

    It is not uncommon to find a property of this age not having that Scheme of Enforceable Covenants and how we deal with this is by having what is called a Flying Freehold Indemnity Policy. The seller obtained one when she purchased the property, which can be transferred to you. I am just waiting for confirmation that the seller will arrange to increase the level of insurance on the policy to match the property’s value.
    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 11th Jan 18, 1:02 PM
    • 6,534 Posts
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    davidmcn
    That's the bit I'd be interested in. So it would pay:

    * your legal costs to fight such a dispute?
    * and/or any loss in value of the property if you lost such a dispute? If so, how would this be calculated?
    * what about a dispute over maintenance costs? Or damage to your property resulting from work done (or not done!) to the property above/below yours?
    .......??
    Originally posted by G_M
    All of the above, up to the original value of the property (but with the insurers hoping they can make a cheaper arrangement with the neighbours). Google around the relevant insurers and you can probably find some sample policy wording if you're interested.
    • vicki2221
    • By vicki2221 11th Jan 18, 1:36 PM
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    vicki2221
    According to the solicitor the lender will accept the flying freehold with the insurance. So now I'm back to worrying about the bathroom.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 11th Jan 18, 2:19 PM
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    • 49,999 Thanks
    G_M
    So now I'm back to worrying about the bathroom.
    Originally posted by vicki2221
    Well, several things occur to me

    * plumbing. Is there any? where would the drains go and where would the water come from?
    * Legal. If new drains required, they might have to pass through, or down the exterior of, your downstairs neighbour's property. Permission needed?
    * structural issues. Unlikely to be an issue, but if adding significant weight to the floor it' a consideration. Especially if an old property. Ask the surveyor to comment when he does the survey?
    * noise etc. Even if there's no legal or structural objection to the en suite, you may p*ss off your downstairs neighbour. Does this matter to you?
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