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  • FIRST POST
    • katy123
    • By katy123 9th Jan 18, 10:57 PM
    • 220Posts
    • 7Thanks
    katy123
    Charged fees for something ebay perceives as being sold off ebay
    • #1
    • 9th Jan 18, 10:57 PM
    Charged fees for something ebay perceives as being sold off ebay 9th Jan 18 at 10:57 PM
    This was my message to a potential buyer:

    If you don't mind I would also prefer BACs payment as ebay and
    paypal charges are quite hefty for a high value item, that would really help me out!

    I listed a piano on ebay, and the buyer asked for photos and information. I asked if the buyer could pay via BACS. I then received a phone call from ebay saying that they have blocked the buyers account for 7 days because she tried to send her telephone number to me. A month later i receive an invoice for £250 as a final valuation fee.

    This had always been my intention, to complete the purchase via ebay and receive a BACS payment (payment method). I have been back and forth with ebay and they are saying that my message "suggests that the transaction can go through, but outside of the eBay site to circumvent the fees for this transaction." Here's the funny part to it, they have explicitly explained that the reference to the BACS "The payment method isn't the concern". I never wanted to transact outside of ebay, i merely asked for a BACS payment which according to ebay is permitted. They keep referring to me wanting to transact outside of ebay? The communication did not lead to a sale being taken offsite. Am i missing something?
Page 3
    • katy123
    • By katy123 12th Jan 18, 7:06 PM
    • 220 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    katy123
    Thanks for the replies, the piano was listed on both ebay and gumtre from the outset. When ebay restricted the buyers account, I then found a buyer on gumtree. I then removed the listing (item not available anymore option)

    In my original message to the buyer(via ebay), my reference to ebay and paypal fees was incorrect. I should have referred to paypal fees.

    After the listing had ended, my ebay was restricted. i was on holiday for 3 weeks so ignored it. Then came the invoice last week.
    Last edited by katy123; 13-01-2018 at 11:14 AM.
    • Brooker Dave
    • By Brooker Dave 14th Jan 18, 12:20 AM
    • 4,885 Posts
    • 3,145 Thanks
    Brooker Dave
    Provided they don't help themselves to your bank account or credit card, I'd just ignore them, your eBay account is toast anyway, and given they are trying to cheat you out of money, why deal with them again?
    "Love you Dave Brooker! x"

    "i sent a letter headded sales of god act 1979"
    • theonlywayisup
    • By theonlywayisup 14th Jan 18, 7:46 AM
    • 11,709 Posts
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    theonlywayisup
    Thanks for the replies, the piano was listed on both ebay and gumtre from the outset. When ebay restricted the buyers account, I then found a buyer on gumtree. I then removed the listing (item not available anymore option)

    In my original message to the buyer(via ebay), my reference to ebay and paypal fees was incorrect. I should have referred to paypal fees.

    After the listing had ended, my ebay was restricted. i was on holiday for 3 weeks so ignored it. Then came the invoice last week.
    Originally posted by katy123
    It sounds like you didn't cancel the sale. Despite the initial FVF being given as £1 it seems eBay have either decided to charge you the full rate or slammed on the full FVF as they think you traded off eBay. Either way you needed to cancel the sale properly.

    Whichever way you look at it, you've sold on eBay and there is no cancellation/NPB to refute that.
    • robatwork
    • By robatwork 14th Jan 18, 11:00 AM
    • 4,041 Posts
    • 4,408 Thanks
    robatwork
    Just received an email from ebay which states

    When we believe a transaction has been completed outside of eBay, we’ll take the following actions:
    ✓ On the first offence, we’ll send a warning.
    ✓ Repeat violations may result in a temporary selling restriction of up to 7 days.
    ✓ We may charge offenders for lost fees and apply an indefinite restriction to serial offenders.

    Is this your first offence? If so i'd tell ebay they are not following their own guidelines.

    Thanks,

    Gary.
    Originally posted by Gary123456790
    At no point was the transaction completed outside of ebay.
    Originally posted by katy123
    Very interesting wording.
    As you said, the selling of your piano, was completed outside of ebay.

    So "the" transaction would have been your ebay listing.

    Ebay state "a" transaction. This could be interpreted to mean any sale of your piano.

    Don't pay, let them take you to court if they will, and see how a judge interprets this. There's no way ebay will win but it may get someone in TS or government to actually examine their terms.
    • askmeaboutsofas
    • By askmeaboutsofas 15th Jan 18, 2:07 PM
    • 44 Posts
    • 44 Thanks
    askmeaboutsofas
    So I'm sure you've got it figured out by now, but it's the mention of eBay charges combined with a BACs payment method that's got you in trouble.
    For anyone looking to avoid that problem in the future, you need to shoe-horn the phrase "complete your purchase through eBay" into EVERY message you ever send to a customer that even remotely touches on anything like payment methods, discounts, prices etc.
    "When you buy through eBay and pay by BACs we could let you have this item for £blah as we'd save a bit of money on PayPal fees."would have been fine.

    If you're not planning on using eBay ever again, it might be worthwhile fighting their charge. It does seem very unfair! But they'll still be within their rights to ban you from the site, even if you win, so if you do want to carry on using eBay you should have a good think about it first.
    • bris
    • By bris 16th Jan 18, 5:49 PM
    • 7,207 Posts
    • 6,227 Thanks
    bris
    This was my message to a potential buyer:

    If you don't mind I would also prefer BACs payment as ebay and
    paypal charges are quite hefty for a high value item, that would really help me out!

    Originally posted by katy123
    Whilst it's sharp practice they haven't really done anything wrong. The bold part of your post clearly points to fee avoidance, to them there is no doubt.


    Whether or not you sold it on Gumtree will make no difference to them, that is damming evidence and it's not really difficult to see why.
    • Pierre De Grenoble
    • By Pierre De Grenoble 16th Jan 18, 6:28 PM
    • 359 Posts
    • 208 Thanks
    Pierre De Grenoble
    If the Op's claims that the item was sold on Gumtree to a different buyer than the one that was messaging on eBay are correct then:

    eBay's grab of FVF's isn't sharp practice it's THEFT. pure & simple.

    the problem is: how does an individual take on a huge corporation & win.
    • theonlywayisup
    • By theonlywayisup 16th Jan 18, 6:47 PM
    • 11,709 Posts
    • 7,908 Thanks
    theonlywayisup
    If the Op's claims that the item was sold on Gumtree to a different buyer than the one that was messaging on eBay are correct then:

    eBay's grab of FVF's isn't sharp practice it's THEFT. pure & simple.

    the problem is: how does an individual take on a huge corporation & win.
    Originally posted by Pierre De Grenoble
    They do it through the correct channels. Theft isn't the offence however as others have alluded there could be inconsistencies with our consumer legislation.
    • Pierre De Grenoble
    • By Pierre De Grenoble 16th Jan 18, 7:18 PM
    • 359 Posts
    • 208 Thanks
    Pierre De Grenoble
    They do it through the correct channels. Theft isn't the offence however as others have alluded there could be inconsistencies with our consumer legislation.
    Originally posted by theonlywayisup
    I was taught as a child that If I take something that does not belong to me, it does not matter how much I try to justify it, that I am stealing.

    I don't believe that there is a "correct channel" for theft.
    • d123
    • By d123 16th Jan 18, 7:54 PM
    • 6,856 Posts
    • 4,387 Thanks
    d123
    If the Op's claims that the item was sold on Gumtree to a different buyer than the one that was messaging on eBay are correct then:

    eBay's grab of FVF's isn't sharp practice it's THEFT. pure & simple.

    the problem is: how does an individual take on a huge corporation & win.
    Originally posted by Pierre De Grenoble
    It isn’t theft, it is a company sending an invoice for services it considers it has given and that the OP has attempted to circumvent agreed fees.

    If it goes to (civil) court a judge might decide the OP doesn’t owe the amount claimed, but eBay certainly has eveidence of an attempt to circumvent the fees.
    ====
    • pinkshoes
    • By pinkshoes 16th Jan 18, 9:13 PM
    • 15,466 Posts
    • 21,155 Thanks
    pinkshoes
    It isn’t theft, it is a company sending an invoice for services it considers it has given and that the OP has attempted to circumvent agreed fees.

    If it goes to (civil) court a judge might decide the OP doesn’t owe the amount claimed, but eBay certainly has eveidence of an attempt to circumvent the fees.
    Originally posted by d123
    They are not just sending an invoice though, they are taking the money.

    The OP may not have had a positive balance in paypal, but others have had money taken from their balance.

    They are taking money based on speculation rather than proof.

    Yes the OP also mentioned eBay fees, which was daft, but it was clear they were referring to wanting a cash payment for an ebay sale.

    If the Op can prove this was sold elsewhere, then they should take eBay to court for a refund.
    Should've = Should HAVE (not 'of')
    Would've = Would HAVE (not 'of')

    No, I am not perfect, but yes I do judge people on their use of basic English language. If you didn't know the above, then learn it! (If English is your second language, then you are forgiven!)
    • Brooker Dave
    • By Brooker Dave 17th Jan 18, 9:34 AM
    • 4,885 Posts
    • 3,145 Thanks
    Brooker Dave
    It isn’t theft, it is a company sending an invoice for services it considers it has given and that the OP has attempted to circumvent agreed fees.
    Originally posted by d123
    Did the seller agree to give ebay seller commission even if ebay had no role in the sale of the piano?

    Consumers justifying predatory practices just gives large powerful companies more reason to try to steal...
    "Love you Dave Brooker! x"

    "i sent a letter headded sales of god act 1979"
    • theonlywayisup
    • By theonlywayisup 17th Jan 18, 10:06 AM
    • 11,709 Posts
    • 7,908 Thanks
    theonlywayisup
    I was taught as a child that If I take something that does not belong to me, it does not matter how much I try to justify it, that I am stealing.

    I don't believe that there is a "correct channel" for theft.
    Originally posted by Pierre De Grenoble
    Theft has a definition "to dishonestly appropriate property belonging to another with the intention to permanently deprive the other of it".

    Ebay's actions do not constitute theft. There may be other legislative avenues worth pursuing but theft isn't one of them.
    • d123
    • By d123 17th Jan 18, 12:27 PM
    • 6,856 Posts
    • 4,387 Thanks
    d123
    Theft has a definition "to dishonestly appropriate property belonging to another with the intention to permanently deprive the other of it".

    Ebay's actions do not constitute theft. There may be other legislative avenues worth pursuing but theft isn't one of them.
    Originally posted by theonlywayisup
    Exactly, it isn’t theft, no matter how angry some people are about it.
    ====
    • d123
    • By d123 17th Jan 18, 12:29 PM
    • 6,856 Posts
    • 4,387 Thanks
    d123
    Did the seller agree to give ebay seller commission even if ebay had no role in the sale of the piano?

    Consumers justifying predatory practices just gives large powerful companies more reason to try to steal...
    Originally posted by Brooker Dave
    Can the seller prove that eBay had no role in the sale?

    They communicated with a buyer via eBay after listing the item on eBay and there is proof that the seller attempted to get the buyer to pay outside of eBay to circumvent eBay and Paypal fees.

    It’s not as cut and dried as you want to make it.
    ====
    • Pierre De Grenoble
    • By Pierre De Grenoble 17th Jan 18, 12:53 PM
    • 359 Posts
    • 208 Thanks
    Pierre De Grenoble
    Can the seller prove that eBay had no role in the sale?
    Originally posted by d123
    If the OP is correct. she can prove that the buyer was a different person (to the eBay contact) who saw the ad on Gumtree and bought the item via Gumtree.

    It's as cut and dried as that.
    • d123
    • By d123 17th Jan 18, 2:06 PM
    • 6,856 Posts
    • 4,387 Thanks
    d123
    If the OP is correct. she can prove that the buyer was a different person (to the eBay contact) who saw the ad on Gumtree and bought the item via Gumtree.

    It's as cut and dried as that.
    Originally posted by Pierre De Grenoble
    Ive sold hundreds of items through eBay and many through Gumtree, I couldn’t prove who I sold those Gumtree items to, at leat not to the degree required in court. In fact for many of them I probably couldn’t even prove who the buyers were or that they weren’t people who had seen the item on eBay.

    Gumtree buyers tend to arrive, pay cash and leave with the item.

    So how is the OP going to have this “cut and dried” proof for a court?
    ====
    • Carrot007
    • By Carrot007 17th Jan 18, 2:15 PM
    • 839 Posts
    • 698 Thanks
    Carrot007
    Despite all the pointless banter since OP last posted (threads should be closed to posts after 48 hours with no OP input).

    So we can ssume that OP seolf to the same person as on ebay or they may have bothered saying (they were last on yesterday and last posted ages ago).
    • theonlywayisup
    • By theonlywayisup 17th Jan 18, 2:25 PM
    • 11,709 Posts
    • 7,908 Thanks
    theonlywayisup
    Despite all the pointless banter since OP last posted (threads should be closed to posts after 48 hours with no OP input).

    So we can ssume that OP seolf to the same person as on ebay or they may have bothered saying (they were last on yesterday and last posted ages ago).
    Originally posted by Carrot007
    Wouldn't it be a perfect world if all posts had an update, even more perfect if that was within 48 hours.
    • Brooker Dave
    • By Brooker Dave 18th Jan 18, 5:56 PM
    • 4,885 Posts
    • 3,145 Thanks
    Brooker Dave
    Can the seller prove that eBay had no role in the sale?
    Originally posted by d123
    They have no reason to.
    "Love you Dave Brooker! x"

    "i sent a letter headded sales of god act 1979"
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