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  • FIRST POST
    • katy123
    • By katy123 9th Jan 18, 10:57 PM
    • 220Posts
    • 7Thanks
    katy123
    Charged fees for something ebay perceives as being sold off ebay
    • #1
    • 9th Jan 18, 10:57 PM
    Charged fees for something ebay perceives as being sold off ebay 9th Jan 18 at 10:57 PM
    This was my message to a potential buyer:

    If you don't mind I would also prefer BACs payment as ebay and
    paypal charges are quite hefty for a high value item, that would really help me out!

    I listed a piano on ebay, and the buyer asked for photos and information. I asked if the buyer could pay via BACS. I then received a phone call from ebay saying that they have blocked the buyers account for 7 days because she tried to send her telephone number to me. A month later i receive an invoice for £250 as a final valuation fee.

    This had always been my intention, to complete the purchase via ebay and receive a BACS payment (payment method). I have been back and forth with ebay and they are saying that my message "suggests that the transaction can go through, but outside of the eBay site to circumvent the fees for this transaction." Here's the funny part to it, they have explicitly explained that the reference to the BACS "The payment method isn't the concern". I never wanted to transact outside of ebay, i merely asked for a BACS payment which according to ebay is permitted. They keep referring to me wanting to transact outside of ebay? The communication did not lead to a sale being taken offsite. Am i missing something?
Page 1
    • forgotmyname
    • By forgotmyname 9th Jan 18, 11:06 PM
    • 26,440 Posts
    • 10,580 Thanks
    forgotmyname
    • #2
    • 9th Jan 18, 11:06 PM
    • #2
    • 9th Jan 18, 11:06 PM
    Yep, there is a thread about how strict and sometimes over zealous they have become about any mention of sellign outside ebay or not using paypal.

    Although getting common sense from them will be difficult.
    Punctuation, Spelling and Grammar will be used sparingly. Due to rising costs of inflation.

    My contribution to MSE. Other contributions will only be used if they cost me nothing.

    Due to me being a tight git.
    • Irn-Bru-Kid
    • By Irn-Bru-Kid 9th Jan 18, 11:58 PM
    • 591 Posts
    • 714 Thanks
    Irn-Bru-Kid
    • #3
    • 9th Jan 18, 11:58 PM
    • #3
    • 9th Jan 18, 11:58 PM
    [QUOTE=katy123;73692183]This was my message to a potential buyer:

    If you don't mind I would also prefer BACs payment as ebay and
    paypal charges are quite hefty for a high value item, that would really help me out!


    This implies that you would rather deal outside of ebay and avoid the 10% fee.

    The new terms and conditions are quite clear. Any reference to contact details, fee avoidance etc, in communications between buyer/seller is not permitted and sadly, you have paid the price.
    • katy123
    • By katy123 10th Jan 18, 12:00 AM
    • 220 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    katy123
    • #4
    • 10th Jan 18, 12:00 AM
    • #4
    • 10th Jan 18, 12:00 AM
    [QUOTE=Irn-Bru-Kid;73692384]
    This was my message to a potential buyer:

    If you don't mind I would also prefer BACs payment as ebay and
    paypal charges are quite hefty for a high value item, that would really help me out!


    This implies that you would rather deal outside of ebay and avoid the 10% fee.

    The new terms and conditions are quite clear. Any reference to contact details, fee avoidance etc, in communications between buyer/seller is not allowed.
    Originally posted by katy123
    Does it imply that I would rather deal outside of ebay (it's a BACS payment), buyer commits to buy and then BACS the payment. ebay still facilities the transaction, albeit not the payment. Ebay has no issue with BACS payment.
    • Dox
    • By Dox 10th Jan 18, 12:11 AM
    • 127 Posts
    • 81 Thanks
    Dox
    • #5
    • 10th Jan 18, 12:11 AM
    • #5
    • 10th Jan 18, 12:11 AM
    Unfortunately the way you've worded it sounds as if you are trying avoid ebay fees as well as those levied by Paypal. I certainly thought that was what you meant, so you can be sure the zealots at ebay will have adopted the worst case scenario. Sadly there probably isn't much you can do, if you look at their T&C.
    • katy123
    • By katy123 10th Jan 18, 12:36 AM
    • 220 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    katy123
    • #6
    • 10th Jan 18, 12:36 AM
    • #6
    • 10th Jan 18, 12:36 AM
    Unfortunately the way you've worded it sounds as if you are trying avoid ebay fees as well as those levied by Paypal. I certainly thought that was what you meant, so you can be sure the zealots at ebay will have adopted the worst case scenario. Sadly there probably isn't much you can do, if you look at their T&C.
    Originally posted by Dox
    But as a matter of fact, it did not happen off ebay. I sold the piano on gumtree. I just wanted a BACS payment, yes to bypass paypal fees.
    • George Michael
    • By George Michael 10th Jan 18, 12:58 AM
    • 2,925 Posts
    • 3,958 Thanks
    George Michael
    • #7
    • 10th Jan 18, 12:58 AM
    • #7
    • 10th Jan 18, 12:58 AM
    and they are saying that my message "suggests that the transaction can go through, but outside of the eBay site to circumvent the fees for this transaction."
    Originally posted by katy123
    To be honest, that's exactly how I would interpret your message to the potential buyer as well.
    If you had only mentioned that the Paypal fees were quite high then you may not have been flagged but as you stated that ebay fees were also too high, this could be taken to mean that you wanted to avoid them as well.
    • bxboards
    • By bxboards 10th Jan 18, 9:07 AM
    • 1,345 Posts
    • 1,052 Thanks
    bxboards
    • #8
    • 10th Jan 18, 9:07 AM
    • #8
    • 10th Jan 18, 9:07 AM
    Your message does suggest to me that you are trying to avoid Ebay fees in what you quoted.

    Regarding sending phone numbers, as a seller I got a 7 day suspension for sending my phone number to a buyer after a sale for a collection in person item.

    Ebay really do not want buyers and sellers exchanging any form of contact details at all and this does make collection in person items as your piano would be, very difficult to facilitate.

    Since the Ebay policy change, I've now turned off messages from buyers so they now see a message stating: 'due to the high volume of emails this seller recieves, they are unable to answer your question' - so far I've seen no drop in sales, and it helps protect myself and customers if they try to send a phone number etc.
    • Brooker Dave
    • By Brooker Dave 10th Jan 18, 9:42 AM
    • 4,885 Posts
    • 3,145 Thanks
    Brooker Dave
    • #9
    • 10th Jan 18, 9:42 AM
    • #9
    • 10th Jan 18, 9:42 AM
    Sadly there probably isn't much you can do, if you look at their T&C.
    Originally posted by Dox
    Popular misconception.

    Ebay's one sided T&Cs are meaningless.

    What other company thinks it can charge some random person £250 for a service it didn't perform?

    OP should report them to Action Fraud.
    "Love you Dave Brooker! x"

    "i sent a letter headded sales of god act 1979"
    • Brooker Dave
    • By Brooker Dave 10th Jan 18, 9:46 AM
    • 4,885 Posts
    • 3,145 Thanks
    Brooker Dave
    Am i missing something?
    Originally posted by katy123
    They're just trying to cheat you out of money, ignore their invoice and find a more honest advertising platform to offload your surplus belongings on.

    Consider reporting them to the police/action fraud, after all they are trying to charge you for a service they didn't provide.

    It's about time ebay was closed down and its directors jailed.
    "Love you Dave Brooker! x"

    "i sent a letter headded sales of god act 1979"
    • Lisbon
    • By Lisbon 10th Jan 18, 11:54 AM
    • 324 Posts
    • 304 Thanks
    Lisbon
    Popular misconception.

    Ebay's one sided T&Cs are meaningless.

    What other company thinks it can charge some random person £250 for a service it didn't perform?

    OP should report them to Action Fraud.
    Originally posted by Brooker Dave
    If you sign up to a site or service you are (generally) bound by the T&Cs. If OP doesn't like the terms, then don't use the site. Millions of people are perfectly happy with their ebay experience - this forum tends to see those who aren't....
    • ballisticbrian
    • By ballisticbrian 10th Jan 18, 12:19 PM
    • 3,213 Posts
    • 1,840 Thanks
    ballisticbrian
    for a service it didn't perform

    I'm not sure if Booker Dave is being witty.


    You put the item up onto their server, used their bandwidth to put your product in front of buyers screens and they buy your item instead of competitors who pay eBay.
    Warning: any unnecessary disclaimers appearing under my posts do not bear any connection with reality, either intended, accidental or otherwise. Your statutory rights are not affected.
    • bxboards
    • By bxboards 10th Jan 18, 12:35 PM
    • 1,345 Posts
    • 1,052 Thanks
    bxboards
    If you sign up to a site or service you are (generally) bound by the T&Cs. If OP doesn't like the terms, then don't use the site. Millions of people are perfectly happy with their ebay experience - this forum tends to see those who aren't....
    Originally posted by Lisbon
    I suspect that this term and condition would fall foul of the Unfair Contract Terms Act

    Personally I dis-like answers that essentially say if you don't like it don't use it - if everyone took that attitude the huge wins consumers have made from unfair parking charges, to PPI would have all been swept under the carpet.

    The reason many businesses try it on, is that far too many people are willing to bend over, and take it up the [to be continued...]
    • mandy44d
    • By mandy44d 10th Jan 18, 3:36 PM
    • 29 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    mandy44d
    Don't eBay also own Gumtree so surely they can see if you were dealing with someone else via that to back up your story?
    • theonlywayisup
    • By theonlywayisup 10th Jan 18, 4:02 PM
    • 11,722 Posts
    • 7,915 Thanks
    theonlywayisup
    Don't eBay also own Gumtree so surely they can see if you were dealing with someone else via that to back up your story?
    Originally posted by mandy44d
    They don't need to see if the story is true, their T&C completely outlaw what they think the OP tried to do.

    That said, if I were the OP and I didn't care about my eBay account, I would not be paying.
    • Pierre De Grenoble
    • By Pierre De Grenoble 10th Jan 18, 4:59 PM
    • 361 Posts
    • 209 Thanks
    Pierre De Grenoble
    Thinking about other cases that have been raised here, I have to wonder just how legal this is under UK law.

    If it was me and my case was righteous, I think I might be bending the ear of Consumer services, my MP and any fleet street ( yeah I know they're not there) journalist I could find that might have an axe to grind...

    There's a story on a US forum, of a seller having an item taken down by eBay for a "vero" infringement. Even though it was eBay who took it down the seller got hit with a non refundable $150 FVF.
    • Brynsam
    • By Brynsam 10th Jan 18, 5:08 PM
    • 274 Posts
    • 214 Thanks
    Brynsam
    Surely all this could have been avoided if OP had either listed the piano on Gumtree in the first place; or chosen to list it during a period when the maximum FVF is limited to £1? Could have saved a lot of grief.
    • katy123
    • By katy123 10th Jan 18, 5:22 PM
    • 220 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    katy123
    Surely all this could have been avoided if OP had either listed the piano on Gumtree in the first place; or chosen to list it during a period when the maximum FVF is limited to £1? Could have saved a lot of grief.
    Originally posted by Brynsam
    It was listed during the £1 max FVF, just ebay chose to ignore that too and slap on the full FVF.

    It was listed on multiple sales platform.
    • pinkshoes
    • By pinkshoes 10th Jan 18, 5:22 PM
    • 15,479 Posts
    • 21,180 Thanks
    pinkshoes
    Whether the message suggested fee avoidance or not (it does! You directly mention avoiding ebay fees!!) is irrelevant.

    If you sold it on gumtree then eBay do not have a right to take a fee. I would question the legality of this too.

    Good luck with this one though, as you will now have to take them to court. You will win, as the Gumtree transaction and emails are your evidence to show it sold elsewhere.
    Should've = Should HAVE (not 'of')
    Would've = Would HAVE (not 'of')

    No, I am not perfect, but yes I do judge people on their use of basic English language. If you didn't know the above, then learn it! (If English is your second language, then you are forgiven!)
    • RFW
    • By RFW 10th Jan 18, 5:57 PM
    • 8,554 Posts
    • 4,990 Thanks
    RFW
    Throwing a semi defence of Ebay (I happen to think this is a ridiculous charge and would never dream of paying it in these circumstances). I don't actually think Ebay are bothered about the money they're more interested in getting rid of buyers/sellers who want to deal off Ebay.

    It's a culture on Ebay that doesn't really exist on any other selling platform. I've never had anyone ask to deal off Amazon when selling there it's a regular occurrence on Ebay. Getting rid of that culture is not a terrible idea both for making Ebay a cleaner site and getting rid of scammers.

    As for OP I'd contact Ebay on Twitter and ask why they have issued a charge for selling something that you had evidently sold on Gumtree.
    .
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