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  • FIRST POST
    • Firemunchkin
    • By Firemunchkin 9th Jan 18, 10:51 PM
    • 273Posts
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    Firemunchkin
    Neighbour wants to install pipes on my land
    • #1
    • 9th Jan 18, 10:51 PM
    Neighbour wants to install pipes on my land 9th Jan 18 at 10:51 PM
    I have a semidetached house with side access on the right hand side (as you face the house). My neighbours on that side are doing a front extension. It largely doesn't affect us because the back of their house ends where our house starts (they're staggered on a pedestrian open plan street). The side pathway goes in between the two houses and falls on my property, and leads to each of our back garden gates.

    As part of the extension, new pipework needs to be laid. If they go round the right side of their house the pipes are going to end up at depth significantly lower than the drain they are meant to drain into. They've asked if they can go round the left of their house, which means digging up my side path and laying the pipes in underneath. This will mean the pipes stay at the same ground level as the drain they need to connect into.

    In principle, I don't mind the pathway being dug up and relaid. It will probably look better afterwards anyway. But I'm concerned about having pipes installed on my land. Should I be concerned? What should I be thinking about? I don't know where to start with this! Any advice gratefully received!

Page 1
    • Davesnave
    • By Davesnave 10th Jan 18, 2:42 AM
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    Davesnave
    • #2
    • 10th Jan 18, 2:42 AM
    • #2
    • 10th Jan 18, 2:42 AM
    There's nothing fundamentally wrong with the plan, unless it might prevent you, or a future owner, from extending your house, even as, say, a porch. Buildings don't have to go directly over a drain for the permissions to become tricky, particularly with drains shared by more than one property.

    For you, building might not be be a viable option if the path is shared as a right of way and the space is fairly narrow anyway, but you know the plot and its potential best.

    As the landowner, you would want your title documents altered to reflect this easement, and the cost of this + the prior advice of a solicitor, all covered by the other party.

    Assuming this is a foul water drain, you'd also want the work inspected and signed-off by building control (or a qualified party) so this should be written into any agreement. I would also specify the finish required for the pathway because there will be some inconvenience and you might as well get something out of the project yourself.

    Others may come along and add things I've not thought about, or even disagree with me, but drains going from one property over another's land is a pretty common scenario.
    'A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they'll never sit in.'
    • Firemunchkin
    • By Firemunchkin 10th Jan 18, 6:57 AM
    • 273 Posts
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    Firemunchkin
    • #3
    • 10th Jan 18, 6:57 AM
    • #3
    • 10th Jan 18, 6:57 AM
    Thank you - that's a really helpful response. We don't intend to extend out the front at all, and certainly not on that side pathway, so what I understand from your response is that by installing pipework it's creating an easement which I should get registered on the title?

    • missile
    • By missile 10th Jan 18, 10:01 AM
    • 9,135 Posts
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    missile
    • #4
    • 10th Jan 18, 10:01 AM
    • #4
    • 10th Jan 18, 10:01 AM
    You may not see an issue now, however I would be concerned:
    What if the pipework leaks?
    It will limit my options in the future.
    It may be an issue for a potential buyer when your house is sold.
    "A nation's greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members." ~ Mahatma Gandhi
    Ride hard or stay home
    • Tom99
    • By Tom99 10th Jan 18, 10:34 AM
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    Tom99
    • #5
    • 10th Jan 18, 10:34 AM
    • #5
    • 10th Jan 18, 10:34 AM
    If you go ahead you should think of charging a fee in addition to all of your legal costs. £1k or £2k would not seem unreasonable.
    • Grenage
    • By Grenage 10th Jan 18, 10:42 AM
    • 1,353 Posts
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    Grenage
    • #6
    • 10th Jan 18, 10:42 AM
    • #6
    • 10th Jan 18, 10:42 AM
    I would only be concerned if the proposed pipework would interfere with potential home extension. You might not have any plans build to the front or side, but it could later become desirable.

    I say concerned - I simply wouldn't consent.
    • Soot2006
    • By Soot2006 10th Jan 18, 10:54 AM
    • 1,219 Posts
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    Soot2006
    • #7
    • 10th Jan 18, 10:54 AM
    • #7
    • 10th Jan 18, 10:54 AM
    Only you know what the future "potential" of that path is. If it is likely to only ever be a path, then follow the advice already given for the permissions + negotiate what nice new path surface you'd like (Sandstone looks very nice + if there was every a problem with the pipes, it is easy enough to lift and re-lay).
    • stator
    • By stator 10th Jan 18, 11:33 AM
    • 5,945 Posts
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    stator
    • #8
    • 10th Jan 18, 11:33 AM
    • #8
    • 10th Jan 18, 11:33 AM
    Do you have a mortgage? The bank might not be too happy if anything you do affects the future saleability of the house
    Changing the world, one sarcastic comment at a time.
    • teneighty
    • By teneighty 10th Jan 18, 1:31 PM
    • 1,070 Posts
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    teneighty
    • #9
    • 10th Jan 18, 1:31 PM
    • #9
    • 10th Jan 18, 1:31 PM
    You may not see an issue now, however I would be concerned:
    What if the pipework leaks?
    It will limit my options in the future.
    It may be an issue for a potential buyer when your house is sold.
    Originally posted by missile
    I'm with Missile on this one. Who builds an extension where the only way they can install the drainage is over the neighbour's land. Bloody cheek.

    There are alternatives such as a pumped system but that will cause the neighbour more expense. Rather selfish that they think their neighbour (OP) should suffer the inconvenience and long term affects to save them money.
    • Davesnave
    • By Davesnave 10th Jan 18, 2:03 PM
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    Davesnave
    I'm with Missile on this one. Who builds an extension where the only way they can install the drainage is over the neighbour's land. Bloody cheek.

    There are alternatives such as a pumped system but that will cause the neighbour more expense. Rather selfish that they think their neighbour (OP) should suffer the inconvenience and long term affects to save them money.
    Originally posted by teneighty
    The problem, as usual, is that we only have half a story.

    We don't know why things have come to this. If it's a c0ck-up of some kind, I'd tend to be sympathetic, but if it arose through sheer presumptiousness, I'd be less keen to assist. Without knowing the neighbour, and who's doing the work, it's hard to know.

    But saying that this might put someone off buying the house is stretching it, as is the notion that a properly laid drain is likely to leak any time soon; hence my emphasis on the right checks and paperwork.

    I have over half a kilometre of boundary, so there's plenty of interface between my property and a variety of neighbours, nice and not-so-much, but I try to be accommodating over matters like this. Some day I might need a reciprocal arrangement with them.

    Back at my last house, all sorts of drainage passed through our garden from others'. I'm talking major sewers as well as the shared drains. It was never a problem and no one so much as commented on it when we sold in 2008. That's how important it was.

    I wondered about a pumped system too. Would that really be more expensive than doing this properly, as outlined above?
    'A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they'll never sit in.'
    • missile
    • By missile 10th Jan 18, 2:49 PM
    • 9,135 Posts
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    missile
    .... But saying that this might put someone off buying the house is stretching it, as is the notion that a properly laid drain is likely to leak any time soon; hence my emphasis on the right checks and paperwork.....
    Originally posted by Davesnave
    You appear to have misinterpreted my post.
    It may be an issue for a potential buyer when your house is sold.
    Originally posted by missile
    A potential buyer may wish to develop this land and be prevented from building on it. As Soot2006 said, we do not have enough information.

    Back at my last house, all sorts of drainage passed through our garden from others'. I'm talking major sewers as well as the shared drains. It was never a problem and no one so much as commented on it when we sold in 2008. That's how important it was.
    Originally posted by Davesnave
    As you say common sewers were common in older properties.
    My first property was a terraced house with a communal sewer. I was not aware of the arrangement until the drain became blocked downstream in my neighbours garden. As a result, raw sewage from neighbours upstream to my property back filled raw sewage from the vent pipe into my garden.

    I would hope buyers solicitor / survey would identify this revised drainage. This may put off a potential purchaser.
    Last edited by missile; 10-01-2018 at 2:52 PM.
    "A nation's greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members." ~ Mahatma Gandhi
    Ride hard or stay home
    • J B
    • By J B 10th Jan 18, 5:56 PM
    • 2,462 Posts
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    J B
    This happened to a house we used to own in N Wales.

    We charged £1K (IIRC) and he also paid all the legal costs to add the correct details to the deeds.
    • Witless
    • By Witless 10th Jan 18, 6:53 PM
    • 546 Posts
    • 2,229 Thanks
    Witless
    + 1 for professional advice.

    Years back (about 1997 IIRC) we had similar ... but opposite IYSWIM.

    Neighbour didn't charge or even suggest payment but requested that, in the event that the area was ever required for building (which, TBH, was extremely unlikely) and it was preventing it we would move the pipe at our expense.

    We got our solicitors to draft an agreement which was either free or a very minimal charge* (we were having other stuff done at the same time)

    * must have been minimal if there was a charge as I don't remember it.
    • Davesnave
    • By Davesnave 10th Jan 18, 7:08 PM
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    Davesnave
    You appear to have misinterpreted my post.
    A potential buyer may wish to develop this land and be prevented from building on it. As Soot2006 said, we do not have enough information.
    Originally posted by missile
    Are we at odds over that? If so, why did my first post say:

    "There's nothing fundamentally wrong with the plan, unless it might prevent you, or a future owner, from extending your house, even as, say, a porch. Buildings don't have to go directly over a drain for the permissions to become tricky, particularly with drains shared by more than one property."

    My next point was that only the OP
    knows the exact situation.

    As they appear to be an adult of sound mind, they will have to take responsibility for the final decision. In doing that, they should weigh-up the possibilty that the drain might leak and that some potential buyers might not like the idea of a drain going under the path. I've already given my opinion on the likelihood of those things, assuming the drain is built correctly and the legal documentation is sorted to protect the OP's interests. I understand that you don't agree on these points.

    Soot2006 reminded us that the OP ought to be getting something out of all this. The OP suggests the path could be upgraded, so none of us seem to be 'misinterpreting' that. They should insist on a better path, easily re-laid if they like, although having stuck a few new drains in myself last year, I didn't allow for digging them up again!
    Last edited by Davesnave; 10-01-2018 at 7:11 PM.
    'A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they'll never sit in.'
    • missile
    • By missile 10th Jan 18, 7:51 PM
    • 9,135 Posts
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    missile
    Are we at odds over that?
    Originally posted by Davesnave
    It is you who chose to disagree with teneighty and I.
    .. But saying that this might put someone off buying the house is stretching it, .......
    Originally posted by Davesnave
    and misquote us
    .. as is the notion that a properly laid drain is likely to leak any time soon .......
    Originally posted by Davesnave
    Last edited by missile; 10-01-2018 at 8:26 PM.
    "A nation's greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members." ~ Mahatma Gandhi
    Ride hard or stay home
    • Davesnave
    • By Davesnave 10th Jan 18, 9:41 PM
    • 23,949 Posts
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    Davesnave
    It is you who chose to disagree with teneighty and I.
    and misquote us
    Originally posted by missile
    I apologise if I misunderstood your and teneighty's posts, as it wasn't my intention to misrepresent your views.

    There are some other posts which show that this situation regarding a drainage easement is reasonably common.
    'A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they'll never sit in.'
    • -taff
    • By -taff 10th Jan 18, 11:12 PM
    • 7,313 Posts
    • 5,366 Thanks
    -taff
    Should I be concerned? What should I be thinking about?!
    Originally posted by Firemunchkin
    Yes.
    The potential for things to go wrong and whos responsibility would it be to fix, and whether a current neighbour solution to that would end when the neigbours moved.

    Don't do it.
    • Debbie Savard
    • By Debbie Savard 11th Jan 18, 6:22 PM
    • 171 Posts
    • 123 Thanks
    Debbie Savard
    I'd politely decline. There's no upside for you, and many downsides.
    • baldelectrician
    • By baldelectrician 11th Jan 18, 10:43 PM
    • 2,141 Posts
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    baldelectrician
    It's up to you.
    I would suggest that you do the things above (such as getting title deeds amended).


    It may be an idea to ensure that the neighbour agrees to have their title deeds changed to ensure that you still own the land where their pipes are but they are still obliged to maintain them at their expense- if this is written to their title deeds this means any future owner will also be bound by the (altered) deeds.


    It may be an idea to add a clause that allows you to connect any new pipes from your property to the pipes they have installed at no cost to them- this may be good if you add something at your side.
    baldly going on...
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