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  • FIRST POST
    • MSE Megan F
    • By MSE Megan F 9th Jan 18, 8:19 PM
    • 234Posts
    • 93Thanks
    MSE Megan F
    MSE News: Credit and debit card charges banned from Saturday - what you need to know
    • #1
    • 9th Jan 18, 8:19 PM
    MSE News: Credit and debit card charges banned from Saturday - what you need to know 9th Jan 18 at 8:19 PM
    From Saturday you should no longer be charged a fee for opting to pay via credit or debit card - but companies will still be able to add booking or admin fees as long as they also apply to other forms of payment...
    Read the full story:
    'Credit and debit card charges banned from Saturday - what you need to know'

    Click reply below to discuss. If you havenít already, join the forum to reply.
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Page 5
    • juno-eclipse
    • By juno-eclipse 31st Jan 18, 10:18 AM
    • 56 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    juno-eclipse
    Sorry if this has been covered, so this isn't just shops, it's any company at all? My friend pays his rent via debit card to his letting agent and they charge a fee (we're still working on his budgeting skills :-P) can I tell him that there not allowed to charge this? They don't charge it if you choose to pay by standing order so it's definitely a card fee.

    Cheers
    Juno
    • chattychappy
    • By chattychappy 31st Jan 18, 10:51 PM
    • 6,609 Posts
    • 3,552 Thanks
    chattychappy
    Sorry if this has been covered, so this isn't just shops, it's any company at all? My friend pays his rent via debit card to his letting agent and they charge a fee (we're still working on his budgeting skills :-P) can I tell him that there not allowed to charge this? They don't charge it if you choose to pay by standing order so it's definitely a card fee.

    Cheers
    Juno
    Originally posted by juno-eclipse
    No they can charge if the tenancy was agreed before the law changed.
    • Nick_C
    • By Nick_C 31st Jan 18, 11:34 PM
    • 3,541 Posts
    • 4,834 Thanks
    Nick_C
    KLM surcharges on Amex
    I challenged them - on Twitter - and they say that it is '3rd party credit card'' and therefore they can charge. Spoke to AMEX UK and they say this is not correct.
    Originally posted by CunningPlan
    The EU directive banning surcharges for payments by credit card does not apply to payments by Amex.

    The UK has gone further than the requirements of the directive by treating Amex payments the same as Visa or Mastercard

    However, your online transaction with KLM is presumably taking place in The Netherlands, so it is probable that an Amex surcharge is permitted under Dutch law.
    • elsien
    • By elsien 1st Feb 18, 9:03 AM
    • 15,839 Posts
    • 39,969 Thanks
    elsien
    I have just been told by a car dealership that I can pay up to £1000 on my CC with no extra charge but they will charge a fee for anything over that.
    I challenged it and they said they were allowed to do this - no reason given. There was no charge for paying the additional amount (£2000) by debit card.
    Are they correct?
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
    • chattychappy
    • By chattychappy 1st Feb 18, 9:59 AM
    • 6,609 Posts
    • 3,552 Thanks
    chattychappy
    I have just been told by a car dealership that I can pay up to £1000 on my CC with no extra charge but they will charge a fee for anything over that.
    I challenged it and they said they were allowed to do this - no reason given. There was no charge for paying the additional amount (£2000) by debit card.
    Are they correct?
    Originally posted by elsien
    No, they are wrong. They cannot discriminate. They are free to refuse CC for the extra amount altogether. But they cannot charge more if they do accept it.
    • juno-eclipse
    • By juno-eclipse 1st Feb 18, 10:08 PM
    • 56 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    juno-eclipse
    No they can charge if the tenancy was agreed before the law changed.
    Originally posted by chattychappy
    Thanks for your reply, no hes paid cash and debit card for over 10 years it was only last year they started charging people for paying by cash or card, is accepting to pay the charge last year like agreeing to a new term with them or can he insist they don't charge?

    Thank you again.
    Juno
    • No_6
    • By No_6 1st Feb 18, 10:17 PM
    • 582 Posts
    • 116 Thanks
    No_6
    Have a chat with them, nice and easy !
    tell him you will not buy unless you get a good deal
    for using a C.Card.

    been their, done it....if not walk away.
    • chattychappy
    • By chattychappy 2nd Feb 18, 3:29 AM
    • 6,609 Posts
    • 3,552 Thanks
    chattychappy
    Thanks for your reply, no hes paid cash and debit card for over 10 years it was only last year they started charging people for paying by cash or card, is accepting to pay the charge last year like agreeing to a new term with them or can he insist they don't charge?

    Thank you again.
    Juno
    Originally posted by juno-eclipse
    I think I'd look at the tenancy. If it doesn't refer to CC and/or charging for cards, then it's a little tricky. It could be said that aside from the tenancy, there is now a separate arrangement concerning card payments and this was entered into last year. Or it could be argued that each payment is some kind of new agreement to take payment by CC and he's not entitled to charge. On balance, I think he is entitled to charge, especially since the tenancy itself pre-dates the law change.

    That said, I have a few tenants. My agreement always says "payment by bank transfer". Despite this, one pays by cheque (which costs me more) and one pays by cash (which is fine). But they pay on time and I'm happy. The fear of all landlords is unreliable tenants. If one of them asked to pay be CC I wouldn't antagonise them by charging extra, regardless of the law.

    So perhaps the landlord can be pursuaded by reference to the law, even if technically he might have a defence.
    • bailey70
    • By bailey70 2nd Feb 18, 3:25 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 23 Thanks
    bailey70
    I've been paying for car parking in Coventry for a few months on an app called MiPermit and it charges 10p more than the value of a ticket purchased from the Pay and Display machines.

    Since the new law came into force they have continued to charge the extra 10p, MiPermit and Coventry City Council have so far failed to respond to my queries... you'd think that having just made massive increases to parking rates (the overnight/Sunday fee was actually doubled from 50p to £1 just a couple of months ago) they could afford to cover this fee!
    • Shakin Steve
    • By Shakin Steve 2nd Feb 18, 3:34 PM
    • 1,321 Posts
    • 1,002 Thanks
    Shakin Steve
    I've been paying for car parking in Coventry for a few months on an app called MiPermit and it charges 10p more than the value of a ticket purchased from the Pay and Display machines.

    Since the new law came into force they have continued to charge the extra 10p, MiPermit and Coventry City Council have so far failed to respond to my queries... you'd think that having just made massive increases to parking rates (the overnight/Sunday fee was actually doubled from 50p to £1 just a couple of months ago) they could afford to cover this fee!
    Originally posted by bailey70
    These charges may have nothing to do with CC charges, they could say they are admin costs or similar.
    I came into this world with nothing and I've got most of it left.
    • bailey70
    • By bailey70 5th Feb 18, 8:42 AM
    • 16 Posts
    • 23 Thanks
    bailey70
    These charges may have nothing to do with CC charges, they could say they are admin costs or similar.
    Originally posted by Shakin Steve
    I see what you're saying... but if it's a surcharge that ONLY applies if you pay by debit or credit card, no matter what the method, surely this would still be a breach of the law. It's not as if they're charging me to deliver the car park to me, I'm still having to go there to use it.

    And if this were the case you'd thing MiPermit or Coventry City Council would have been a lot quicker to respond.
    • Nick_C
    • By Nick_C 5th Feb 18, 12:53 PM
    • 3,541 Posts
    • 4,834 Thanks
    Nick_C
    Presumably, the only way to pay using the app is by debit or credit card? They are entitled to charge an admin fee, provided that fee is the same regardless of the method of payment.

    If you could pay by PayPal using the app and there was no fee then they would be breaking the law. But if they are not discriminating, they are not charging more for some payment methods than others, then they are complying with the law.
    • eskbanker
    • By eskbanker 5th Feb 18, 1:04 PM
    • 6,234 Posts
    • 6,330 Thanks
    eskbanker
    I see what you're saying... but if it's a surcharge that ONLY applies if you pay by debit or credit card, no matter what the method, surely this would still be a breach of the law. It's not as if they're charging me to deliver the car park to me, I'm still having to go there to use it.
    Originally posted by bailey70
    I see this as the same issue as the Ringgo one discussed at posts #39 and #42 above, i.e. MiPermit is effectively acting as an agent in the same way that, say, a travel agent might charge a different price for booking a hotel from what you'd pay by going direct, so IMHO the fact that it's ultimately the same parking space doesn't oblige MiPermit to charge the same as the council for it. The fact that they only allow payment by card is essentially incidental as far as compliance with the new regulations is concerned....
    • chattychappy
    • By chattychappy 6th Feb 18, 8:41 AM
    • 6,609 Posts
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    chattychappy
    I suppose there is a chance for a loophole here.

    Let's say I'm a travel agent. "Cash Flights 'r us". I sell flights for cash or debit card only. On my advertising, I say "We don't take CCs in order to give you he best prices." I then have a Visa/Mastercard logo and the comment "Want to pay by CC? No problem. Our partner business can process your order - just book through them at a modest 2% surcharge."

    Provided the businesses are separate legal identities, this should be legal. In fact one business could even process the orders as agent for the other, provided it was clear to the consumer at the point of sale.
    • Nick_C
    • By Nick_C 6th Feb 18, 8:52 AM
    • 3,541 Posts
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    Nick_C
    It could work, but wouldn't you lose S75 protection if you booked that way?

    Is not so long ago that MC and VISA didn't allow surcharges. Businesses quite happily took them because CCs generate extra business.

    I'm sure the new system will work just fine
    • eDicky
    • By eDicky 6th Feb 18, 9:56 AM
    • 3,146 Posts
    • 1,458 Thanks
    eDicky
    "Want to pay by CC? No problem. Our partner business can process your order - just book through them at a modest 2% surcharge."
    Originally posted by chattychappy
    I guess you couldn't mention a surcharge, but "book through them at excellent prices, no more than 2% higher than ours".

    Consumers' choice, why should they have to subsidise the card perks received by others.
    • chattychappy
    • By chattychappy 6th Feb 18, 10:05 AM
    • 6,609 Posts
    • 3,552 Thanks
    chattychappy
    It could work, but wouldn't you lose S75 protection if you booked that way?
    Originally posted by Nick_C
    Well travel agency is complicated anyway. But yes, it would hardly help if one is the agent of the other. Not really a problem for the seller though, only the cardholder.

    Is not so long ago that MC and VISA didn't allow surcharges. Businesses quite happily took them because CCs generate extra business.
    Originally posted by Nick_C
    Not in the case of my B2B. Barclays Merchant Services had such a condition in their T+Cs, but it was unenforceable except to the extent the charge exceeded the cost. (Which later became law anyway.) I remember getting a letter from them saying I was in breach of their T+Cs and I pointed them to the law. Their "legal team" said they wouldn't take it any further. Their rep (who I was always on good terms with) said she hadn't even realised the legal position. At the time, my fee with them was 4% on the amount collected (so overall the hit was bigger because of the VAT) and my margins were 5% on some products.

    I guess you couldn't mention a surcharge, but "book through them at excellent prices, no more than 2% higher than ours".
    Originally posted by eDicky
    Actually I don't see a problem in being more direct. "If you wish to buy with a CC, then we've teamed up with loopholesRus who will charge the same as us plus a 2% surcharge.
    Last edited by chattychappy; 06-02-2018 at 10:07 AM.
    • AllieKat
    • By AllieKat 6th Feb 18, 11:45 AM
    • 64 Posts
    • 41 Thanks
    AllieKat
    Actually I don't see a problem in being more direct. "If you wish to buy with a CC, then we've teamed up with loopholesRus who will charge the same as us plus a 2% surcharge.
    Originally posted by chattychappy
    Preventing behaviour like this is why e-money services like PayPal are included in the surcharge ban in the UK (though not in the EU directive).

    Obviously, there will always be a few who will do anything they can to creatively break the intent, but not the letter, of the law. Most businesses will just get on with things and consumers will win.
    • hamstring
    • By hamstring 6th Feb 18, 6:34 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    hamstring
    If the government has banned all Credit Card Surcharges from 13th January 21018, why are the DVLA still charging £2:50 to pay for my Tax renewal???
    • chattychappy
    • By chattychappy 6th Feb 18, 10:01 PM
    • 6,609 Posts
    • 3,552 Thanks
    chattychappy
    Most businesses will just get on with things and consumers will win.
    Originally posted by AllieKat
    As a consumer, I feel I've lost out.
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