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  • FIRST POST
    • PlumbingTheDepths
    • By PlumbingTheDepths 9th Jan 18, 3:12 PM
    • 29Posts
    • 2Thanks
    PlumbingTheDepths
    Bosch dishwasher from AO.com
    • #1
    • 9th Jan 18, 3:12 PM
    Bosch dishwasher from AO.com 9th Jan 18 at 3:12 PM
    Hi,
    I had a new Bosch dishwasher delivered by AO.com a couple of days ago.

    The door is visibly misaligned and sometimes doesn't close properly (I have used it a couple of times).

    I have called AO and told them that I would like a replacement, but they are insisting that Bosch come to inspect to verify the fault, before they will accept a return and replacement.

    Bosch can only offer me an "all day" appointment.

    Do I have to allow the inspection, or can I insist on returning it, and them inspect it when they receive it back?

    Bit annoyed, because I have ordered loads from AO, and this is the first time I have had an issue, so hoped it would be dealt with without any hassle.
    Last edited by PlumbingTheDepths; 09-01-2018 at 3:15 PM.
Page 1
    • Supersonos
    • By Supersonos 9th Jan 18, 4:52 PM
    • 76 Posts
    • 33 Thanks
    Supersonos
    • #2
    • 9th Jan 18, 4:52 PM
    • #2
    • 9th Jan 18, 4:52 PM
    Hi,
    I had a new Bosch dishwasher delivered by AO.com a couple of days ago.

    The door is visibly misaligned and sometimes doesn't close properly (I have used it a couple of times).

    I have called AO and told them that I would like a replacement, but they are insisting that Bosch come to inspect to verify the fault, before they will accept a return and replacement.

    Bosch can only offer me an "all day" appointment.

    Do I have to allow the inspection, or can I insist on returning it, and them inspect it when they receive it back?

    Bit annoyed, because I have ordered loads from AO, and this is the first time I have had an issue, so hoped it would be dealt with without any hassle.
    Originally posted by PlumbingTheDepths
    You have the right to reject the goods within 14 days for whatever reason, although you might have to bear the cost of returning the dishwasher is there's a dispute as to whether it's faulty.

    Maybe let them inspect it and, if they say it's fine, reject it. If they say it's faulty, insist on a replacement.
    • PlumbingTheDepths
    • By PlumbingTheDepths 9th Jan 18, 5:47 PM
    • 29 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    PlumbingTheDepths
    • #3
    • 9th Jan 18, 5:47 PM
    • #3
    • 9th Jan 18, 5:47 PM
    You have the right to reject the goods within 14 days for whatever reason, although you might have to bear the cost of returning the dishwasher is there's a dispute as to whether it's faulty.

    Maybe let them inspect it and, if they say it's fine, reject it. If they say it's faulty, insist on a replacement.
    Originally posted by Supersonos
    Thanks. In this case the fault is fairly obvious, so if they say it's fine, I'll just send them pictures demand a refund, and buy it elsewhere. In fact I might reject it even if they offer a replacement.

    Either way, I'll think twice before using them again. I've bought almost 2 grand of appliances from them in the last 5 weeks, and another grand over the last 18 months.

    I've always been very impressed by their customer service and delivery, but am very annoyed that I now have to wait in for a whole day, just to prove that the appliance they supplied is faulty. It also makes me wonder what would happen if the fault was not so obvious.

    I always judge companies by how well they operate when things go wrong.
    • shaun from Africa
    • By shaun from Africa 9th Jan 18, 6:02 PM
    • 9,679 Posts
    • 10,871 Thanks
    shaun from Africa
    • #4
    • 9th Jan 18, 6:02 PM
    • #4
    • 9th Jan 18, 6:02 PM
    You have the right to reject the goods within 14 days for whatever reason...
    ...
    Maybe let them inspect it and, if they say it's fine, reject it. If they say it's faulty, insist on a replacement.
    Originally posted by Supersonos
    However, if the OP was to use their 14 right of cancellation then AO.com are not required to provide a full refund.
    This is because the legislation that covers this allows the retailer to make a deduction if the consumer has gone beyond what may be classed as inspecting the goods (and this is generally deemed to allow the consumer to do the same as they would be able to in a shop).
    As they have used the machine "a couple of times", a refund can take this into account if the use has devalued the dishwasher.
    Because of this, it would be far better for the OP to stick to the 30 day short term right of rejection for faulty goods as this requires a full refund and for the retailer to cover the return cost.
    All of the above is assuming that AO have complied with their legal obligations and have informed the OP of their statutory rights before the contract was formed.

    Why not take a couple of photographs of the problem and send these directly to Bosch before the engineer is due to visit.
    If you do this, state that as it's obviously faulty you thought it best to advise them of the problem so they might not have to go to the expense of sending someone to your house.
    Even if they offer a replacement, you are entitled to refuse this and insist on a full refund.
    Last edited by shaun from Africa; 09-01-2018 at 8:45 PM.
    • zoob
    • By zoob 9th Jan 18, 6:13 PM
    • 198 Posts
    • 87 Thanks
    zoob
    • #5
    • 9th Jan 18, 6:13 PM
    • #5
    • 9th Jan 18, 6:13 PM
    Before rejecting the dishwasher check its sitting 100% level, I've being selling dishwashers for over 30 years and 90% of the time when a customer comes back with this complaint there's nothing wrong with the dishwasher it's just not sitting level all round and it's the person who installed it didn't think of checking the obvious.
    It's normal for a retailer to want to inspect to see if it's faulty rather than having a non faulty product returned but if an engineer does inspect they might charge you if it's not faulty.

    Certainly if it's faulty you are entitled to a refund or replacement but if you waste the retailers and engineers time because there's not a fault just an incompetent installer there entitled to make a charge for wasting there time.
    • Greta Sharbo
    • By Greta Sharbo 9th Jan 18, 6:51 PM
    • 117 Posts
    • 135 Thanks
    Greta Sharbo
    • #6
    • 9th Jan 18, 6:51 PM
    • #6
    • 9th Jan 18, 6:51 PM
    Also worth bearing in mind that the engineer might have been told what the answer is before they get there (iyswim) and you need to argue the point.
    • PlumbingTheDepths
    • By PlumbingTheDepths 9th Jan 18, 8:08 PM
    • 29 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    PlumbingTheDepths
    • #7
    • 9th Jan 18, 8:08 PM
    • #7
    • 9th Jan 18, 8:08 PM
    Before rejecting the dishwasher check its sitting 100% level, I've being selling dishwashers for over 30 years and 90% of the time when a customer comes back with this complaint there's nothing wrong with the dishwasher it's just not sitting level all round and it's the person who installed it didn't think of checking the obvious.
    Originally posted by zoob
    Thanks. I checked and it is stable on the floor and looks 100% on a spirit level. Also I've realised that the door doesn't always misalign the same way. Sometimes when I close it is aligned, sometimes sloped to the left and sometimes to the right. It also feels like it is catching when closing.

    It's normal for a retailer to want to inspect to see if it's faulty rather than having a non faulty product returned but if an engineer does inspect they might charge you if it's not faulty.
    Originally posted by zoob
    I've no problem with them inspecting it. My issue is that they are doing it in a way that inconveniences me so much. I used AO, partly because of the delivery (one hour slot, with them calling ahead, so that you don't need to stay in all day). Now, of course, I'm looking at having to stay in all day.

    Certainly if it's faulty you are entitled to a refund or replacement but if you waste the retailers and engineers time because there's not a fault just an incompetent installer there entitled to make a charge for wasting there time.
    Originally posted by zoob
    I've already confirmed with them that there won't be a charge. Also, even if it did turn out to be something simple, they had a chance to speak with me today, before insisting on sending somebody out, and didn't do any fault finding over the phone.

    So, they can whistle for any charge they might consider leveling (no pun intended).
    • theonlywayisup
    • By theonlywayisup 12th Jan 18, 7:49 AM
    • 11,705 Posts
    • 7,908 Thanks
    theonlywayisup
    • #8
    • 12th Jan 18, 7:49 AM
    • #8
    • 12th Jan 18, 7:49 AM
    You have the right to reject the goods within 14 days for whatever reason, although you might have to bear the cost of returning the dishwasher is there's a dispute as to whether it's faulty.

    Maybe let them inspect it and, if they say it's fine, reject it. If they say it's faulty, insist on a replacement.
    Originally posted by Supersonos
    The right for rejection for faulty goods is 30 days.

    However, if the OP was to use their 14 right of cancellation then AO.com are not required to provide a full refund.
    This is because the legislation that covers this allows the retailer to make a deduction if the consumer has gone beyond what may be classed as inspecting the goods (and this is generally deemed to allow the consumer to do the same as they would be able to in a shop).
    As they have used the machine "a couple of times", a refund can take this into account if the use has devalued the dishwasher.
    Because of this, it would be far better for the OP to stick to the 30 day short term right of rejection for faulty goods as this requires a full refund and for the retailer to cover the return cost.
    All of the above is assuming that AO have complied with their legal obligations and have informed the OP of their statutory rights before the contract was formed.

    Why not take a couple of photographs of the problem and send these directly to Bosch before the engineer is due to visit.
    If you do this, state that as it's obviously faulty you thought it best to advise them of the problem so they might not have to go to the expense of sending someone to your house.
    Even if they offer a replacement, you are entitled to refuse this and insist on a full refund.
    Originally posted by shaun from Africa
    It would seem the OP is opting to reject the item as faulty so I'm not sure why you are both quoting rights for a change of mind return.

    The CRA allows a consumer to cancel (for any reason) and outlines the terms you quote regarding possible deductions in value, this right has a 14 day limit.

    However, the item is faulty/unsatisfactory quality. Under the CRA the buyer has an automatic right to reject within 30 days for a full refund.
    • LilElvis
    • By LilElvis 12th Jan 18, 8:14 AM
    • 3,281 Posts
    • 9,090 Thanks
    LilElvis
    • #9
    • 12th Jan 18, 8:14 AM
    • #9
    • 12th Jan 18, 8:14 AM
    The right for rejection for faulty goods is 30 days.



    It would seem the OP is opting to reject the item as faulty so I'm not sure why you are both quoting rights for a change of mind return.

    The CRA allows a consumer to cancel (for any reason) and outlines the terms you quote regarding possible deductions in value, this right has a 14 day limit.

    However, the item is faulty/unsatisfactory quality. Under the CRA the buyer has an automatic right to reject within 30 days for a full refund.
    Originally posted by theonlywayisup
    My reading is that supersonos suggested using the 14 day right of cancellation and Shaun was pointing out the pitfalls of choosing this route over the right to reject.
    • theonlywayisup
    • By theonlywayisup 12th Jan 18, 9:13 AM
    • 11,705 Posts
    • 7,908 Thanks
    theonlywayisup
    My reading is that supersonos suggested using the 14 day right of cancellation and Shaun was pointing out the pitfalls of choosing this route over the right to reject.
    Originally posted by LilElvis
    But as no one has given the OP the correct reason for his return - 30 day right to reject on being unsatisfactory quality - then it's prudent to point it out rather than discussing the whys and wherefores of something that isn't relevant.
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 12th Jan 18, 9:33 AM
    • 10,423 Posts
    • 7,356 Thanks
    neilmcl
    But as no one has given the OP the correct reason for his return - 30 day right to reject on being unsatisfactory quality - then it's prudent to point it out rather than discussing the whys and wherefores of something that isn't relevant.
    Originally posted by theonlywayisup
    Shaun was merely correcting the other post that stated the OP had "the right to reject the goods within 14 days for whatever reason.", clearly it was that poster (Supersonos) that was getting confused between the rights for distance sales under the CCRs and the short term right to reject under the CRA, which Shaun went on to clarify, if you had bothered to read that post fully.
    • shaun from Africa
    • By shaun from Africa 12th Jan 18, 11:23 AM
    • 9,679 Posts
    • 10,871 Thanks
    shaun from Africa
    But as no one has given the OP the correct reason for his return - 30 day right to reject on being unsatisfactory quality - then it's prudent to point it out rather than discussing the whys and wherefores of something that isn't relevant.
    Originally posted by theonlywayisup
    "no one has given the OP the correct reason for his return"
    Really. I suggest that you read my first post again.
    Why do you think that the 14 change of mind return isn't relevant?
    The OP asked if they could return the appliance without giving AO the right to inspect it for faults and a reply to this was that they could return it within the 14 day period for any reason.
    Because this right was brought into the topic, I would say that it's entirely relevant to point out exactly why returning the dishwasher this way isn't a good idea.

    It's not a good idea but it is both possible and within the OP's legal rights to do so.

    I hope you understand now.
    • macman
    • By macman 13th Jan 18, 7:04 PM
    • 41,519 Posts
    • 17,097 Thanks
    macman
    Sounds like a loose hinge-which the engineer can remedy with a screwdriver and two minutes work. Even if it's the door itself, replacement is do-able on site.
    No free lunch, and no free laptop
    • theonlywayisup
    • By theonlywayisup 13th Jan 18, 7:46 PM
    • 11,705 Posts
    • 7,908 Thanks
    theonlywayisup
    "no one has given the OP the correct reason for his return"
    Really. I suggest that you read my first post again.
    Why do you think that the 14 change of mind return isn't relevant?
    The OP asked if they could return the appliance without giving AO the right to inspect it for faults and a reply to this was that they could return it within the 14 day period for any reason.
    Because this right was brought into the topic, I would say that it's entirely relevant to point out exactly why returning the dishwasher this way isn't a good idea.

    It's not a good idea but it is both possible and within the OP's legal rights to do so.

    I hope you understand now.
    Originally posted by shaun from Africa
    \

    The OP isn't changing his/her mind. The item (according to them) has a "misaligned door". Therefore he/she is within their rights to reject. When you reject for this reason it isn't a change of mind.

    Therefore the correct reason for return (or rejection) is not a change of mind, but a rejection for being faulty/unsatisfactory quality.

    You are right, your advice wasn't a good idea, a better idea is to use the legislation for the correct means. I am sure you will understand that.
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