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  • FIRST POST
    • demonted
    • By demonted 9th Jan 18, 3:04 PM
    • 150Posts
    • 16Thanks
    demonted
    Online Banking: is onus on user to ensure OS or software is up to date ?
    • #1
    • 9th Jan 18, 3:04 PM
    Online Banking: is onus on user to ensure OS or software is up to date ? 9th Jan 18 at 3:04 PM
    Should an online bank account or maybe even a credit card account or any other online account be compromised, hacked and funds lost, stolen or fraudulent transactions incurred, could the online bank or organisation refuse to refund/reimburse due to the account holder
    accessing their online account via a mobile phone, tablet, laptop or computer which did not have the most up to date software or operating system installed ?
Page 3
    • demonted
    • By demonted 11th Jan 18, 8:12 PM
    • 150 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    demonted
    Yep, that's why I said what reasonable means to me. Obviously the banks don't define reasonable so you're not going to get a definitive answer. But if you're knowingly using an insecure OS like XP to access your bank account and you are defrauded because of it - would you really think you took all reasonable measures? Emphasis on knowingly, btw. You might be doing it unknowingly and then the question is whose job is it to educate you about the risks you are taking? The bank can do it easily. They can stop you logging in from an XP machine and putting your credentials at risk. But since they don't do that maybe it is they who didn't take all reasonable measures, not you.
    Originally posted by JSR

    I'm not attempting to prove anyone wrong here, but your example is in regard to ensuring that the device used is virus free.

    Although I rarely use my computer, it still has the most up to date antivirus software installed, which is still supported and updated and my computer is scanned for viruses every time it shuts down.

    Using an outdated OS doesn't automatically mean a device is infected with a virus. I would assume a OS becomes less securre because hackers discover a backdoor into the system.

    However, rather than assumptions or interpretations, I was hoping forum members may of experienced what I actually refer to or may of come accross specific T&Cs.

    It's probably best I contact my Online Bank and request their specific T&Cs on this matter, otherwise, this thread will be never ending.
    • cjmillsnun
    • By cjmillsnun 12th Jan 18, 12:40 PM
    • 419 Posts
    • 276 Thanks
    cjmillsnun
    Can a bank refuse liability due to an outdated OS.?

    If there are known weaknesses that can be exploited to gain sensitive login information (there certainly are on XP) then yes of course they can. The bank have a duty to keep their side (servers) secure. You have a duty to keep your client device secure.

    If you can demonstrate that you have secured against all known threats then your responsibility ends there.
    • binaryuniverse
    • By binaryuniverse 12th Jan 18, 1:07 PM
    • 533 Posts
    • 304 Thanks
    binaryuniverse
    You may as well ask why it doesn't tell you, in the T&Cs, to keep your house doors and windows locked.

    It's for the same reason.
    • demonted
    • By demonted 12th Jan 18, 5:42 PM
    • 150 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    demonted
    Can a bank refuse liability due to an outdated OS.?

    If there are known weaknesses that can be exploited to gain sensitive login information (there certainly are on XP) then yes of course they can. The bank have a duty to keep their side (servers) secure. You have a duty to keep your client device secure.

    If you can demonstrate that you have secured against all known threats then your responsibility ends there.
    Originally posted by cjmillsnun
    Can you please support this by linking to the legal T&Cs which state this or is it in fact your own interpretation ?
    • demonted
    • By demonted 12th Jan 18, 7:53 PM
    • 150 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    demonted
    You may as well ask why it doesn't tell you, in the T&Cs, to keep your house doors and windows locked.

    It's for the same reason.
    Originally posted by binaryuniverse

    Your opinion is an inplied interpretation.

    However, if such a term is stated within your Online Banks T&Cs please provide a link to support this.
    • binaryuniverse
    • By binaryuniverse 12th Jan 18, 8:20 PM
    • 533 Posts
    • 304 Thanks
    binaryuniverse
    However, if such a term is stated within your Online Banks T&Cs please provide a link to support this.
    Originally posted by demonted
    You're asking me to provide a link to something I told you would never appear?
    • demonted
    • By demonted 12th Jan 18, 8:51 PM
    • 150 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    demonted
    You're asking me to provide a link to something I told you would never appear?
    Originally posted by binaryuniverse
    Please explain why it would never appear; but only if it is more than just your personal opinion.



    Otherwise, please only reply to this thread if you know of a clause containing specific legal wording within Online Banking T&Cs, which specifically states that a device used to access Online Bank Accounts, whether a Computer, Laptop, Tablet, Smartphone or any other device must have the most up to date or at least a recent OS installed and running.
    • 18cc
    • By 18cc 13th Jan 18, 8:35 AM
    • 152 Posts
    • 100 Thanks
    18cc
    There are no links to any T&C that say you must have the latest operating system (ie Windows 10 in the Windows environment) because this is not a requirement.

    As far as I know, there have been no refusals by banks to pay compensation after a loss, with the bank saying an insecure client was used thus enabling the fraudsters to gain access to sensitive information. At least, if there have been it's not easily findable on Google.

    However, going forward, it MIGHT happen - who knows. Exactly what the bank would argue, how it would pan out and if it would be upheld is anyone's guess.

    I suspect it you did what any 'reasonable' person should do, which to me would be keep your antivirus up to date and apply security fixes to your OS (whatever version) as and when they are released then the bank would not be able to take this path. But that's just my opinion and I have no facts to back it up.
    • demonted
    • By demonted 14th Jan 18, 7:03 PM
    • 150 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    demonted
    I created this thread to highlight what I believe could be an important issue, I'm certainly not advocating the use of outdated OS, either to make a stance or just for the sake of it.

    18cc.... To an extent I agree with your theory and I'm not attempting to contradict you or anyone else who has contributed to this thread.

    Although, in regard to "what any reasonable person should do" this is not necessarily so with a device OS as a certain level of technical awareness, maybe knowledge is required; where as "a reasonable person would " lock the doors and close windows of their home to prevent burglary.

    I'm relatively aware of all things tech; latest smartphone, TV's, FPV cameras, OS, Browsers etc and I believe it's not always necessary to install the latest OS system just for the sake of it or the moment the latest version is released.

    I've been happily using Windows XP without a second thought to the possible risk to Online Banking, even accessing my Credit Cards online.

    Since creating this thread, I've discovered that friends, work colleagues and family, also my girlfriend and her family, don't even know which OS is installed on their computer; most stating they use what was installed when they bought it; although they're more inclined to update the OS of their smartphone and tablet, especiallly when a iPhone or iPad.


    However, FSA rules state a victim of fraud, whether online or not be given benefit of doubt and reimbursed.

    Although, Banks and Credit Card companies often come up with elaborate and obscure reasons not to reimburse victims and I speak from personal experience.

    A situation which occurred quite a few years ago, before online and possibly telephone banking even existed; took 5 years to resolved, but only because Credit Reference Agency automatically wiped files after 5 years.

    None of us want to find out the hard way; have our Online Bank Accounts drained of funds by hackers, only for the Bank to enforce a clause that we wasn't even aware of; be a very expensive oversight.
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