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  • FIRST POST
    • xred5x
    • By xred5x 9th Jan 18, 10:45 AM
    • 9Posts
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    xred5x
    Company takeover - personal details
    • #1
    • 9th Jan 18, 10:45 AM
    Company takeover - personal details 9th Jan 18 at 10:45 AM
    The company I work for was bought over in the middle of 2017. To date all I have received is an email to inform me of the takeover and a 5 minute meeting to let me know that there will be no changes to my contract.

    Yesterday I received a ‘New Employee Form’ from the parent company. While I do understand that they might want more details on file they do ask for a lot of details. I was wondering if anyone could enlighten me to why these details below are being asked for and if they are allowed to ask for them.

    Passport No.
    NHS No.
    Personal Email address.
    Last time I consulted my Doctor & reason?
    Do I drink alcohol & how many units do I consume a week?
    How many days have I been absent in the last 12 months?

    I don’t know if my role in this new company will change but they are expecting me to sign this form. I feel very uneasy about doing this and believe the new company are being vague about details.
Page 1
    • Xbigman
    • By Xbigman 9th Jan 18, 6:34 PM
    • 2,982 Posts
    • 1,232 Thanks
    Xbigman
    • #2
    • 9th Jan 18, 6:34 PM
    • #2
    • 9th Jan 18, 6:34 PM
    Those questions seem quite intrusive and personaly I would not fill this form in. It does needs to be put in some context though. If you fly planes for a living I can see why some of those questions might be more valid.
    How much pressure are your employers putting you under to fill the form in?




    Darren
    Xbigman's guide to a happy life.

    Eat properly
    Sleep properly
    Save some money
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 9th Jan 18, 6:56 PM
    • 4,411 Posts
    • 7,347 Thanks
    sangie595
    • #3
    • 9th Jan 18, 6:56 PM
    • #3
    • 9th Jan 18, 6:56 PM
    Your passport is one of the documents required to prove your ability to work in this country. Refuse to provide it and you can be dismissed. Actually, they should require the original documents to prove your eligibility too work in the UK.

    Days absent should be a mattet of record - why can't you confirm this?

    The rest, you can refuse to give. If you end up on the "first to go" list, that's your choice. There is no legal reason why they can't ask, and you are perfectly entitled to refuse to answer. Unless yippy have something to hide though, I'd answer...
    • steampowered
    • By steampowered 9th Jan 18, 8:19 PM
    • 2,086 Posts
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    steampowered
    • #4
    • 9th Jan 18, 8:19 PM
    • #4
    • 9th Jan 18, 8:19 PM
    The parent company may well be arranging a company-wide life assurance policy to cover all employees. This is a very common benefit for employers to provide.

    It may well be that the employer needs to collect this information in order to get a price from the insurance company.

    The information being requested is "sensitive" data for the purposes of the Data Protection Act 1998, and usually requires your 'explicit' consent before the employer can hold it. If the employer is not telling you the precise reason, your consent is not 'explicit' and the employer will almost certainly be breaching the Data Protection Act. In reality though pointing this out is not going to get you anywhere.
    • TBagpuss
    • By TBagpuss 9th Jan 18, 8:55 PM
    • 6,166 Posts
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    TBagpuss
    • #5
    • 9th Jan 18, 8:55 PM
    • #5
    • 9th Jan 18, 8:55 PM
    I don't think that it is unreasonable for you to ask why they are asking.
    The passport number may be related to the right to work rules they have to comply with, although they are supposed to see the actual document.

    Sick days I'd expect them to know, as your employer, but they may be using the same form for you and other existing staff as they would for actual new employees.

    Asking about medical history and alcohol consumption is a much greyer area and I think in your position I would be asking why the questions are asked and who will have access to the information.

    Do they offer an employee health plan?
    • kingfisherblue
    • By kingfisherblue 9th Jan 18, 9:19 PM
    • 7,506 Posts
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    kingfisherblue
    • #6
    • 9th Jan 18, 9:19 PM
    • #6
    • 9th Jan 18, 9:19 PM
    Your passport is one of the documents required to prove your ability to work in this country. Refuse to provide it and you can be dismissed.
    Originally posted by sangie595
    What about people who don't have a passport? I'd have difficulty, never having had a passport.
    • Savvy_Sue
    • By Savvy_Sue 10th Jan 18, 12:55 AM
    • 37,944 Posts
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    Savvy_Sue
    • #7
    • 10th Jan 18, 12:55 AM
    • #7
    • 10th Jan 18, 12:55 AM
    What about people who don't have a passport? I'd have difficulty, never having had a passport.
    Originally posted by kingfisherblue
    Other documents are acceptable, but it gets a heck of a lot more complicated ...
    Still knitting!
    Completed: 1 adult cardigan, 3 baby jumpers, 2 shawls, 3 pairs baby bootees,
    1 Wise Man Knitivity figure + 1 sheep, 2 pairs socks, 1 seaman's hat ...
    Current projects: 1 shawl, another seaman's hat
    • MEM62
    • By MEM62 10th Jan 18, 11:57 AM
    • 1,417 Posts
    • 1,034 Thanks
    MEM62
    • #8
    • 10th Jan 18, 11:57 AM
    • #8
    • 10th Jan 18, 11:57 AM
    What about people who don't have a passport? I'd have difficulty, never having had a passport.
    Originally posted by kingfisherblue
    Then I would be asking for your driving license and birth certificate. If you cannot produce these I would not be able to offer you employment.

    Employers have an obligation to ensure that the staff they employ and in the country legally and that they have the right to work. These checks apply to all staff.
    • keepcalmandstayoutofdebt
    • By keepcalmandstayoutofdebt 10th Jan 18, 6:47 PM
    • 2,999 Posts
    • 1,552 Thanks
    keepcalmandstayoutofdebt
    • #9
    • 10th Jan 18, 6:47 PM
    • #9
    • 10th Jan 18, 6:47 PM
    What about people who don't have a passport? I'd have difficulty, never having had a passport.
    Originally posted by kingfisherblue
    Didn't get a passport until I was 30 plus years of age - specifically to meet these types of checks y'know. Went through an interview to prove identity, the book then came. The price paid was certainly worthwhile as it's not like it doesn't last a while.

    Never to old to get your passport.
    https://www.gov.uk/apply-first-adult-passport/your-passport-interview
    "If you are caught in a rainstorm, once you accept that you'll receive a soaking, the only thing left to do is enjoy the walk"
    • Savvy_Sue
    • By Savvy_Sue 11th Jan 18, 1:46 AM
    • 37,944 Posts
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    Savvy_Sue
    Then I would be asking for your driving license and birth certificate. If you cannot produce these I would not be able to offer you employment.
    Originally posted by MEM62
    I don't think that's enough: the list I linked to says that if it's a birth certificate, there has to be another government document giving a permanent NINo. I don't recall my NINo being on my driving licence - and why would it be, since you don't have to be entitled to work her to apply for a driving licence?

    A driving licence doesn't appear anywhere on that list ...

    Employers have an obligation to ensure that the staff they employ and in the country legally and that they have the right to work. These checks apply to all staff.
    Originally posted by MEM62
    True.
    Still knitting!
    Completed: 1 adult cardigan, 3 baby jumpers, 2 shawls, 3 pairs baby bootees,
    1 Wise Man Knitivity figure + 1 sheep, 2 pairs socks, 1 seaman's hat ...
    Current projects: 1 shawl, another seaman's hat
    • Xbigman
    • By Xbigman 11th Jan 18, 3:46 AM
    • 2,982 Posts
    • 1,232 Thanks
    Xbigman
    Why is this thread concentrating on right to work documents? The OP was asked for their passport number only, not for right to work documents. There is another question asking for their NHS number, not any proof of anything. Those two questions, as asked, seem useless.

    The Two questions I would have the biggest issues with are the last doctors visit (in my case nothing to do with my ability to work) and the drinking question (none of works business as long as I don't turn up drunk).



    Darren
    Xbigman's guide to a happy life.

    Eat properly
    Sleep properly
    Save some money
    • DCFC79
    • By DCFC79 11th Jan 18, 8:43 AM
    • 30,642 Posts
    • 19,370 Thanks
    DCFC79
    Why is this thread concentrating on right to work documents? The OP was asked for their passport number only, not for right to work documents. There is another question asking for their NHS number, not any proof of anything. Those two questions, as asked, seem useless.

    The Two questions I would have the biggest issues with are the last doctors visit (in my case nothing to do with my ability to work) and the drinking question (none of works business as long as I don't turn up drunk).



    Darren
    Originally posted by Xbigman
    Its because someoone mentioned a passport is required for right to work and another poster latched on to that, a shame really.
    Can people stop loaning money/being a guarator to family/friends, it rarely ends well and you lose out as your money is gone or you get shafted with being a guarantor.
    • Savvy_Sue
    • By Savvy_Sue 11th Jan 18, 8:55 AM
    • 37,944 Posts
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    Savvy_Sue
    I think there's general agreement that asking for the passport no. MIGHT be related to Right to Work details, although if the new company is doing this properly then they need to see the actual passport (or alternative documentation).

    We moved onto the documentation when someone said "what if you don't have a passport?"
    Still knitting!
    Completed: 1 adult cardigan, 3 baby jumpers, 2 shawls, 3 pairs baby bootees,
    1 Wise Man Knitivity figure + 1 sheep, 2 pairs socks, 1 seaman's hat ...
    Current projects: 1 shawl, another seaman's hat
    • MEM62
    • By MEM62 11th Jan 18, 9:57 AM
    • 1,417 Posts
    • 1,034 Thanks
    MEM62
    I don't think that's enough: the list I linked to says that if it's a birth certificate, there has to be another government document giving a permanent NINo. I don't recall my NINo being on my driving licence - and why would it be, since you don't have to be entitled to work her to apply for a driving licence?

    A driving licence doesn't appear anywhere on that list ...
    Originally posted by Savvy_Sue
    If audited, the UKBA accept less providing you have followed due diligence. For example, we employ a number of casual workers who arrive in the UK on YMS visas and therefore have no NI number at the point of employment. Additionally I have permanent workers that are here under IDR and their visa may not be in their current passport and we therefore have to rely on an 'expired' document for verification.

    The requirement for a document with an NI number is interesting as I am obligated to ensure that they are legally resident and permitted to work but, as far as I am aware, there is no obligation on me to ensure that they have an NI number - or indeed for the employee to have one at the point at which I engage them.

    As with many things, the rules are fine until you come to the cases where you cannot follow them absolutely.
    • another casualty
    • By another casualty 11th Jan 18, 10:23 AM
    • 3,258 Posts
    • 5,125 Thanks
    another casualty
    Back in the 90s I was working for a large advertising company that got taken over. All that happened there, was a new contract was eventually given to all staff . I signed it and returned it to personnel
    Apparently some staff refused to sign but their terms and conditions were the same anyway .I imagine things have changed a lot since then .
    • crackerberry
    • By crackerberry 11th Jan 18, 10:32 AM
    • 734 Posts
    • 1,168 Thanks
    crackerberry
    In the event of not having a passport, you can instead provide a copy of your birth certificate but, as photo ID is also required, they then require a photo driving licence (if no driving licence, the civil service (job application wise) will accept a recent passport type photo signed on the back by someone who can vouch that its you in the photo)
    Evidence of NI number can be provided via a P60 or P45, any letter from HMRC or letter from any other government department which would show it (not applicable here but for example from Job Seekers Plus/ESA)

    Edited to add that, job hunting at the moment, I've been asked for these from every recruitment agency and prior to a civil service job interview too.
    Last edited by crackerberry; 11-01-2018 at 10:34 AM.
    • usefulmale
    • By usefulmale 11th Jan 18, 3:26 PM
    • 2,343 Posts
    • 4,337 Thanks
    usefulmale
    In the event of not having a passport, you can instead provide a copy of your birth certificate but, as photo ID is also required, they then require a photo driving licence (if no driving licence, the civil service (job application wise) will accept a recent passport type photo signed on the back by someone who can vouch that its you in the photo)
    Evidence of NI number can be provided via a P60 or P45, any letter from HMRC or letter from any other government department which would show it (not applicable here but for example from Job Seekers Plus/ESA)

    Edited to add that, job hunting at the moment, I've been asked for these from every recruitment agency and prior to a civil service job interview too.
    Originally posted by crackerberry
    There is no requirement for photoID.

    Your birth certificate and a goverment letter showing your NI No is perfectly adequate.
    Originally Posted by MSE Forum Team
    We’ve had to remove your signature because what you wrote was true and sensible and there's no room for that here.
    • crackerberry
    • By crackerberry 11th Jan 18, 4:30 PM
    • 734 Posts
    • 1,168 Thanks
    crackerberry
    There is no requirement for photoID.

    Your birth certificate and a goverment letter showing your NI No is perfectly adequate.
    Originally posted by usefulmale
    Tell that to the Government then, as they don't seem to be aware.
    • kingfisherblue
    • By kingfisherblue 11th Jan 18, 4:59 PM
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    • 16,202 Thanks
    kingfisherblue
    Its because someoone mentioned a passport is required for right to work and another poster latched on to that, a shame really.
    Originally posted by DCFC79
    It was me who 'latched on' - I was sure that a passport is not required to prove a right to work in this country, although I know that proof is required. Because another poster stated that it was a requirement, I queried it. I didn't expect so many replies, nor did I expect the thread to be derailed in any way.

    However, it also begs the question - if the new employer requires the employee's passport details, why are they needed, and what if an employee does not possess a passport? Some of the questions asked by the OP's employer do seem somewhat bizaare.
    • usefulmale
    • By usefulmale 11th Jan 18, 5:08 PM
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    usefulmale
    Tell that to the Government then, as they don't seem to be aware.
    Originally posted by crackerberry
    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/441957/employers_guide_to_acceptable_right_to_work_docume nts_v5.pdf

    The link above is from the government.

    Point out where it says photo ID is a requirement.
    Last edited by usefulmale; 11-01-2018 at 5:10 PM. Reason: Direct link to PDF
    Originally Posted by MSE Forum Team
    We’ve had to remove your signature because what you wrote was true and sensible and there's no room for that here.
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