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  • FIRST POST
    • Donnankev
    • By Donnankev 9th Jan 18, 10:17 AM
    • 4Posts
    • 1Thanks
    Donnankev
    Self employed employees being charged by business if customers pay by card!
    • #1
    • 9th Jan 18, 10:17 AM
    Self employed employees being charged by business if customers pay by card! 9th Jan 18 at 10:17 AM
    Is it legal for a business to cross charge the card fee to the employees now the new legislation is in play. I understand that not being able to charge the customer for using a card will impact the business, however I don't see how it is right that this charge should be passed to the workers?
    Thank you for any advice
Page 1
    • BoGoF
    • By BoGoF 9th Jan 18, 10:19 AM
    • 2,839 Posts
    • 2,084 Thanks
    BoGoF
    • #2
    • 9th Jan 18, 10:19 AM
    • #2
    • 9th Jan 18, 10:19 AM
    What is a self-employed employee?

    What charges are being passed on to you, for what?
    • Donnankev
    • By Donnankev 9th Jan 18, 10:32 AM
    • 4 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Donnankev
    • #3
    • 9th Jan 18, 10:32 AM
    • #3
    • 9th Jan 18, 10:32 AM
    My husband drives a taxi firms minibus. He is classed as self employed. He has a percentage of money for every job they give him. All drivers received a message yesterday to inform them that if a customer pays by card that 2% of the payment will be taken from the drivers earnings and not the business.
    Hope this makes sense.
    Thank you
    • BoGoF
    • By BoGoF 9th Jan 18, 10:43 AM
    • 2,839 Posts
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    BoGoF
    • #4
    • 9th Jan 18, 10:43 AM
    • #4
    • 9th Jan 18, 10:43 AM
    Did the company previously charge the customer if they paid by card?
    • Donnankev
    • By Donnankev 9th Jan 18, 10:47 AM
    • 4 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Donnankev
    • #5
    • 9th Jan 18, 10:47 AM
    • #5
    • 9th Jan 18, 10:47 AM
    Yes they did charge the customer.
    • BoGoF
    • By BoGoF 9th Jan 18, 10:52 AM
    • 2,839 Posts
    • 2,084 Thanks
    BoGoF
    • #6
    • 9th Jan 18, 10:52 AM
    • #6
    • 9th Jan 18, 10:52 AM
    Problem is your husband is self employed and this gives less rights that an employee. The people he works for can change their policies, if he doesnt like it he will need to look for a new job.
    • molerat
    • By molerat 9th Jan 18, 1:21 PM
    • 17,673 Posts
    • 11,937 Thanks
    molerat
    • #7
    • 9th Jan 18, 1:21 PM
    • #7
    • 9th Jan 18, 1:21 PM
    I would have a quiet word with the taxi licencing office
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    • SuperHan
    • By SuperHan 9th Jan 18, 2:14 PM
    • 2,023 Posts
    • 1,178 Thanks
    SuperHan
    • #8
    • 9th Jan 18, 2:14 PM
    • #8
    • 9th Jan 18, 2:14 PM
    I can't see you husband having much recourse, unfortunately.


    The firm pay their drivers with reference to the profit they earn. Card paying customers are now 2% less profitable.


    Unless he has underlying contract with them that prevents this, there's not much he can do. If he does have such a contract, they could terminate it under its terms if they so chose...
    • agrinnall
    • By agrinnall 9th Jan 18, 2:28 PM
    • 19,148 Posts
    • 14,823 Thanks
    agrinnall
    • #9
    • 9th Jan 18, 2:28 PM
    • #9
    • 9th Jan 18, 2:28 PM
    If your husband wants employee rights then he needs to find work where he is employed rather than self-employed.
    • Donnankev
    • By Donnankev 9th Jan 18, 4:25 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Donnankev
    Thank you all for your advice, this seams bonkers that it is legal to me. The drivers don't pick and choose what jobs they do they go wherever allocated. I do agree that they should increase fares to compensate. I just hope this kind of act doesn't filter to other businesses. Can you imagine paying for your weekly shop on card and the till assistance then having his/hers wages cut so the company can pay the bank fees!!
    • forgotmyname
    • By forgotmyname 9th Jan 18, 5:19 PM
    • 26,410 Posts
    • 10,560 Thanks
    forgotmyname
    Trying to think if thats the same and I don't think it is.

    If your husband was the shopkeeper then i think that is more appropriate.

    If your husband took the bookings himself and only worked for himself he would be charged by his payment provider.

    Is it a common thing in his line of work? Are other companies starting to pass the costs down the line?
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    • TheShape
    • By TheShape 9th Jan 18, 6:17 PM
    • 1,185 Posts
    • 970 Thanks
    TheShape
    The drivers don't pick and choose what jobs they do they go wherever allocated.
    Originally posted by Donnankev
    Which very much sounds like a definition of employment, rather than self-employment.

    Far too people are forced to be self-employed when they are, by any sensible definition, employees.
    • SuperHan
    • By SuperHan 9th Jan 18, 6:18 PM
    • 2,023 Posts
    • 1,178 Thanks
    SuperHan
    Thank you all for your advice, this seams bonkers that it is legal to me. The drivers don't pick and choose what jobs they do they go wherever allocated. I do agree that they should increase fares to compensate. I just hope this kind of act doesn't filter to other businesses. Can you imagine paying for your weekly shop on card and the till assistance then having his/hers wages cut so the company can pay the bank fees!!
    Originally posted by Donnankev

    Well, if he is in fact employed by the company, it may be illegal for him to be treated as self employed (and therefore paid and penalised in this way).


    However, one of the indicators of him being self employed would be that he's taking on a financial risk (and so takes a hit in circumstances like this). Him having to go to jobs that he's told to on the other hand may be an indicator that he's an employee.


    It won't pass into other industries such as supermarkets as they don't have self employed workers. They are being paid a wage and the credit card cost is a different and separate cost to their salaries.


    It's not quite the same for self employed people. You'd expect a self employed decorator to be taking a hit on their take home salary if they can't pass on the cost any more. This is a better analogy for your husband's situation.


    The bigger question about whether he is an employee as a cab driver has further reaching repercussions than this (which I'm sure you've seen in the Uber court cases).
    • badmemory
    • By badmemory 9th Jan 18, 6:37 PM
    • 1,220 Posts
    • 1,323 Thanks
    badmemory
    If he was really self employed then he would be able to imitate HMRC, DVLA & several businesses I know which are going back to refusing to take credit cards. If he can't refuse then he isn't self employed.
    • SuperHan
    • By SuperHan 9th Jan 18, 6:56 PM
    • 2,023 Posts
    • 1,178 Thanks
    SuperHan
    If he was really self employed then he would be able to imitate HMRC, DVLA & several businesses I know which are going back to refusing to take credit cards. If he can't refuse then he isn't self employed.
    Originally posted by badmemory
    It's not quite that straight cut - but yes, not being able to refuse customers would be an indicator that he doesn't have control, which is an attribute of an employee.

    There's a table and article about it here:
    http://www.rossmartin.co.uk/employers/essential-know-how/171-employment-status

    But it's essentially an in the round test.

    You should also be considering worker's rights and as I say the Uber case will probably be a useful point of reference.
    • Jackmydad
    • By Jackmydad 9th Jan 18, 6:56 PM
    • 1,625 Posts
    • 3,822 Thanks
    Jackmydad
    Might be worth having a look here to decide if employed or S/E.

    http://www.rossmartin.co.uk/employers/essential-know-how/171-employment-status

    ETA Too late with that, but still worth a look!
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