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  • FIRST POST
    • SeanMSweeney
    • By SeanMSweeney 8th Jan 18, 6:10 PM
    • 8Posts
    • 2Thanks
    SeanMSweeney
    Advice please:Tried to pay with ApplePay - NCP issued PCN
    • #1
    • 8th Jan 18, 6:10 PM
    Advice please:Tried to pay with ApplePay - NCP issued PCN 8th Jan 18 at 6:10 PM
    Hi all

    In November I parked at my local tube station (run by NCP) and used ApplePay to pay for the parking. My phone showed £2.50 paid so quick screen grab and off I went.

    I was sent a Parking Charge Notice by NCP which I appealed saying that I thought I had paid and didn't think anymore of it. I checked my bank account and no payment had been taken, so I offered to pay the £2.50 for the parking as there was clearly an error with their system as payment d=hadn't been taken.

    They rejected my appeal.

    I appealed to POPLA and have received the following decision:
    POPLA assessment and decision
    08/01/2018
    Verification Code

    4363267674

    DecisionUnsuccessful
    Assessor NameCarly Law
    Assessor summary of operator case
    The operator has issued the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) as the appellant’s vehicle was on site without a payment being made for parking.

    Assessor summary of your case
    The appellant’s case is that they paid for parking at Arnos Grove underground station via ApplePay. They say that ApplePay confirmed that parking was paid at a charge of £2.50 and they took a screenshot of the transaction. The appellant says that they appealed to the operator and sent it copies of the confirmation of payment but this was rejected stating it does not have a record of the payment on the system. They say that they believe there was a problem with the operator’s payment system and they are happy to pay the amount owed. The appellant has provided a screenshot from ApplePay, showing a payment of £2.50 was made.

    Assessor supporting rational for decision
    When parking on private land, it is the responsibility of the motorist to ensure they adhere to the terms and conditions of the car park. The operator has provided photographs of the terms and conditions, as displayed throughout the site, which states, “A Parking Charge Notice (PCN) will be issued for failure to comply with the Terms and Conditions (which can be found in and around this car park). This includes the following breaches: Failure to pay all the charges due for your stay” and “PCN charges paid within 14 days (early discount) £60, PCN charges paid after 14 days £100”. The operator has issued the PCN as the appellant’s vehicle was parked on site without making a payment for parking. The operator has provided images from the Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) system, which shows the appellant’s vehicle entered the site at 13:02 and exited the site at 19:33. The operator has also provided a system print out, which shows no payment was received for the appellant’s vehicle on the day in question. The appellant says that they paid for parking at Arnos Grove underground station via ApplePay. They say that ApplePay confirmed that parking was paid at a charge of £2.50 and they took a screenshot of the transaction. The appellant says that they appealed to the operator and sent it copies of the confirmation of payment but this was rejected stating it does not have a record of the payment on the system. They say that they believe there was a problem with the operator’s payment system and they are happy to pay the amount owed. The appellant has provided a screenshot from ApplePay, showing a payment of £2.50 was made. I recognise the appellant’s grounds of appeal and that they have attempted to make a payment for parking. However, POPLA is an evidence-based service and I can only make an assessment on the evidence that has been provided. While I acknowledge the ApplePay screenshot provided by the appellant, this does not show that a payment was against the vehicle in question. The operator’s evidence shows that no payment was received for the vehicle. Additionally, I note the appellant says they believe the fault to be with the operator’s system. However, the operator has provided evidence to demonstrate that other payments were made for parking on the date in question. I also note the appellant’s comments provided in response to the operator’s evidence pack. The appellant has raised new grounds of appeal within the comments section. The comments section is for simply providing comments and not for raising new grounds of appeal. As such, I will not take these grounds into consideration when making my assessment on this case. POPLA’s role is to assess if the operator has issued the PCN in accordance with the conditions of the contract. In this case, as the appellant’s vehicle has been on site without a payment being made for parking, the terms and conditions of the car park have not been met. The operator has issued the PCN correctly.

    Any ideas please?
Page 1
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 8th Jan 18, 6:15 PM
    • 8,080 Posts
    • 8,475 Thanks
    pappa golf
    • #2
    • 8th Jan 18, 6:15 PM
    • #2
    • 8th Jan 18, 6:15 PM
    I note this is a tube station , is this not covered by rail bylaws?
    • waamo
    • By waamo 8th Jan 18, 6:36 PM
    • 2,265 Posts
    • 2,721 Thanks
    waamo
    • #3
    • 8th Jan 18, 6:36 PM
    • #3
    • 8th Jan 18, 6:36 PM
    Have you admitted being the driver?
    This space for hire.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 8th Jan 18, 8:20 PM
    • 1,541 Posts
    • 1,692 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    • #4
    • 8th Jan 18, 8:20 PM
    • #4
    • 8th Jan 18, 8:20 PM
    Dont worry too much, it’s ncp. They don’t do court.
    • SeanMSweeney
    • By SeanMSweeney 10th Jan 18, 5:50 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    SeanMSweeney
    • #5
    • 10th Jan 18, 5:50 PM
    • #5
    • 10th Jan 18, 5:50 PM
    I have admitted attempting to pay!
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 10th Jan 18, 5:59 PM
    • 16,354 Posts
    • 25,447 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #6
    • 10th Jan 18, 5:59 PM
    • #6
    • 10th Jan 18, 5:59 PM
    Here’s another motorist in the same position with a NCP-related payment app failure. I suggest you contact him her via PM and draw up a battle plan to ask the BPA to investigate this urgently.

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5757183

    Email Steve Clark at

    steve.c@britishparking.co.uk or

    aos@britishparking.co.uk Add FTAO Mr Steve Clark

    Copy in the DVLA so they are aware of this potential scam.

    david.dunford@dvla.gsi.gov.uk
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 10th Jan 18, 6:15 PM
    • 1,541 Posts
    • 1,692 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    • #7
    • 10th Jan 18, 6:15 PM
    • #7
    • 10th Jan 18, 6:15 PM
    I have admitted attempting to pay!
    Originally posted by SeanMSweeney
    That’s not what was asked! A simple yes or no was all that was required. NOTHING else.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 10th Jan 18, 11:19 PM
    • 52,882 Posts
    • 66,409 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #8
    • 10th Jan 18, 11:19 PM
    • #8
    • 10th Jan 18, 11:19 PM
    I have admitted attempting to pay!
    Originally posted by SeanMSweeney
    So what? That's not the same thing, a passenger could attempt to pay.

    Have you said who was driving, by choosing 'driver' in the appeals menu choices, for example?
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • SeanMSweeney
    • By SeanMSweeney 11th Jan 18, 9:33 AM
    • 8 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    SeanMSweeney
    • #9
    • 11th Jan 18, 9:33 AM
    • #9
    • 11th Jan 18, 9:33 AM
    No I did not admit driving.
    • SeanMSweeney
    • By SeanMSweeney 11th Jan 18, 9:41 AM
    • 8 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    SeanMSweeney
    I have contact Norwich Commuter
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 11th Jan 18, 10:36 AM
    • 1,541 Posts
    • 1,692 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    Edit your post....

    you did not say who was driving. We do not need to be told who drove.
    • Castle
    • By Castle 11th Jan 18, 11:06 AM
    • 1,381 Posts
    • 1,820 Thanks
    Castle
    I note this is a tube station , is this not covered by rail bylaws?
    Originally posted by pappa golf
    Yes it is!
    • SeanMSweeney
    • By SeanMSweeney 13th Jan 18, 12:28 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    SeanMSweeney
    Hi there

    I didn't say I was driving. You asked me if I admitted to driving, I didn't.

    Thanks for the guidance though.
    • SeanMSweeney
    • By SeanMSweeney 13th Jan 18, 12:29 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    SeanMSweeney
    Final reminder notice received...
    "Should payment not be remitted to us..blah blah blah, the case will be passed to a debt collection Agency who may etc."
    her we go.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 13th Jan 18, 12:46 PM
    • 16,354 Posts
    • 25,447 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Final reminder notice received...
    "Should payment not be remitted to us..blah blah blah, the case will be passed to a debt collection Agency who may etc."
    her we go.
    Originally posted by SeanMSweeney
    Standard expectation at this point. Let them pass it to debt collectors, they’re harmless - just ignore them.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • waamo
    • By waamo 13th Jan 18, 12:48 PM
    • 2,265 Posts
    • 2,721 Thanks
    waamo
    If the car park is covered by byelaws as Castle suggests then there is nothing a debt collector can do other than send scary letters.

    As a byelaws offence it would be down to the train operating company to prosecute you in a magistrates court. Any fine would go to the government. In other words it would cost them money to get nothing.

    They have 6 months from the date of the henious crime to do this. Debt collectors letters however can continue for years despite the fact there is nothing they can do.
    This space for hire.
    • SeanMSweeney
    • By SeanMSweeney 13th Jan 18, 12:53 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    SeanMSweeney
    I have written as advised to BPA and DVLA as the other party did not appear interested, I have also copied in the CEO at NCP. I'll keep you posted.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 13th Jan 18, 1:40 PM
    • 5,147 Posts
    • 3,616 Thanks
    KeithP
    I didn't say I was driving. You asked me if I admitted to driving, I didn't.

    Thanks for the guidance though.
    Originally posted by SeanMSweeney
    Re-read your original post.

    It would be a good idea to edit the first sentence of your original post to start something like:
    In November my car was parked at my local tube station...
    You may need to review and adjust the rest of that post similarly.

    There is no place for the word 'I' when describing events on the day.

    Also, is your forum username your real name?
    If so, you would be wise to get MSE to change it to something more anonymous.

    This isn't just petty pedantry. The PPCs trawl forums like this just waiting for people to trip themselves up.
    Last edited by KeithP; 13-01-2018 at 1:50 PM.
    .
    • Castle
    • By Castle 13th Jan 18, 2:11 PM
    • 1,381 Posts
    • 1,820 Thanks
    Castle
    If the car park is covered by byelaws as Castle suggests then there is nothing a debt collector can do other than send scary letters.
    Originally posted by waamo
    Source:-
    https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/tube_station_car_parks#incoming-1011604
    • SeanMSweeney
    • By SeanMSweeney 15th Jan 18, 6:17 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    SeanMSweeney
    So...following a conversation with NCP, they have accepted my offer to pay the original parking fee £2.50 and the matter is now closed.
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