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    • abfabally
    • By abfabally 8th Jan 18, 10:04 AM
    • 6Posts
    • 1Thanks
    abfabally
    Lodger not signed contract or paid rent
    • #1
    • 8th Jan 18, 10:04 AM
    Lodger not signed contract or paid rent 8th Jan 18 at 10:04 AM
    Hi,

    A lodger has just moved in (on Saturday). He has paid his deposit (late) but still has not paid me for the 1st months rent (it was due on Saturday - I reminded him on Sunday, and it is still not in my account - today is Monday). I know the transfer is effectively instant, since his deposit came through instantly when I reminded him about it, so I am sure he has not transferred the rent yet).

    Neither of us has signed the contract yet - I sent it to him several weeks in advance and reminded him to sign it.
    We agreed he'd sign it the day he moved in, but that didn't happen. Please don't berate me for this - I've enough stuff going on at the moment without being given a hard time by strangers. In any case, he'd have broken the terms within the contract already due to late deposit and late rent payment.

    What are my rights? He's at work right now. If he doesn't pay by the end of business today (after another reminder, of course!), I have a good mind to change the locks. What duty do I have for all his belongings? I can just dump them outside?

    Thanks,

    Alison
    Last edited by abfabally; 08-01-2018 at 10:05 AM. Reason: additional details Re. contract provision
Page 1
    • Browntoa
    • By Browntoa 8th Jan 18, 10:07 AM
    • 32,187 Posts
    • 37,893 Thanks
    Browntoa
    • #2
    • 8th Jan 18, 10:07 AM
    • #2
    • 8th Jan 18, 10:07 AM
    If he's a lodger with an unsigned contract then they have no rights , not even a notice period
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    • deannatrois
    • By deannatrois 8th Jan 18, 10:11 AM
    • 4,981 Posts
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    deannatrois
    • #3
    • 8th Jan 18, 10:11 AM
    • #3
    • 8th Jan 18, 10:11 AM
    I agree but you can't just dump his stuff outside either. You will have to make arrangements for him to collect them. Have someone there with you if necessary.

    Its not just the unsigned contract. If you live in and share facilities, he is a lodger and has few rights. You will need to return the deposit less any rent due. I'd take two days rent out or just give it all back if its worth doing this to get rid of him. It probably is to be honest.
    Last edited by deannatrois; 08-01-2018 at 10:14 AM.
    • theartfullodger
    • By theartfullodger 8th Jan 18, 10:13 AM
    • 9,228 Posts
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    theartfullodger
    • #4
    • 8th Jan 18, 10:13 AM
    • #4
    • 8th Jan 18, 10:13 AM
    Lodgers do have rights, albeit much weaker than tenants.
    https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/private_renting/lodgers

    Did you do & file "Right to rent" checks for him - even if her appears "British" - woteva that is..

    What did the written terms or receipt say about the deposit paid?

    Give him reasonable notice ("rent is due today or no accommodation") and if not sorted (eg cash in claw or in your bank account) change locks when he's next out. After that, don't let him back in but pass him his belongings through front door or window. Ideally have a witness when this happens.

    Next time, no signed agreement, inventory, rent, deposit no keys no access.
    • abfabally
    • By abfabally 8th Jan 18, 10:40 AM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    abfabally
    • #5
    • 8th Jan 18, 10:40 AM
    • #5
    • 8th Jan 18, 10:40 AM
    Wow you guys are fast, thanks! The (unsigned) contract states "Should the Lodger fail to pay the rent the Landlord may serve upon them a notice for payment/removal or apply to court for payment/removal."

    So I suppose I can give him "Notice for Payment" now, due by 3pm today (really, he already had this in the draft contract, and also by my reminder yesterday), swiftly followed by "notice for removal" (i.e. me changing the locks) by 5pm.

    Thanks again everyone! Next time I'll be more careful

    Yours,

    Alison
    • anselld
    • By anselld 8th Jan 18, 10:45 AM
    • 5,492 Posts
    • 5,079 Thanks
    anselld
    • #6
    • 8th Jan 18, 10:45 AM
    • #6
    • 8th Jan 18, 10:45 AM
    Given that you relaxed the payment requirement in the first place (by letting lodger in without rent in advance), I think you need to chill out a bit.

    You are still in possession of full deposit for 2 days occupancy so you are nowhere near out of pocket.

    I understand your desire to put the foot down about late payment, but changing the locks would be seen as unreasonable and this point.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 8th Jan 18, 10:54 AM
    • 1,757 Posts
    • 1,599 Thanks
    Comms69
    • #7
    • 8th Jan 18, 10:54 AM
    • #7
    • 8th Jan 18, 10:54 AM
    Hi,

    A lodger has just moved in (on Saturday). He has paid his deposit (late) but still has not paid me for the 1st months rent (it was due on Saturday - I reminded him on Sunday, and it is still not in my account - today is Monday). I know the transfer is effectively instant, since his deposit came through instantly when I reminded him about it, so I am sure he has not transferred the rent yet).

    Neither of us has signed the contract yet - I sent it to him several weeks in advance and reminded him to sign it.
    We agreed he'd sign it the day he moved in, but that didn't happen. Please don't berate me for this - I've enough stuff going on at the moment without being given a hard time by strangers. In any case, he'd have broken the terms within the contract already due to late deposit and late rent payment.

    What are my rights? He's at work right now. If he doesn't pay by the end of business today (after another reminder, of course!), I have a good mind to change the locks. What duty do I have for all his belongings? I can just dump them outside?

    Thanks,

    Alison
    Originally posted by abfabally


    He may have signed the contract but not given you a copy. So assume he has.


    You should give notice as the contract states.


    You have to look after his belongings, you CANNOT just dump them outside.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 8th Jan 18, 10:54 AM
    • 1,757 Posts
    • 1,599 Thanks
    Comms69
    • #8
    • 8th Jan 18, 10:54 AM
    • #8
    • 8th Jan 18, 10:54 AM
    If he's a lodger with an unsigned contract then they have no rights , not even a notice period
    Originally posted by Browntoa
    Incorrect. The OP doesn't have a signed contract, she has no idea what the lodger has
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 8th Jan 18, 10:56 AM
    • 1,757 Posts
    • 1,599 Thanks
    Comms69
    • #9
    • 8th Jan 18, 10:56 AM
    • #9
    • 8th Jan 18, 10:56 AM
    Wow you guys are fast, thanks! The (unsigned) contract states "Should the Lodger fail to pay the rent the Landlord may serve upon them a notice for payment/removal or apply to court for payment/removal."

    So I suppose I can give him "Notice for Payment" now, due by 3pm today (really, he already had this in the draft contract, and also by my reminder yesterday), swiftly followed by "notice for removal" (i.e. me changing the locks) by 5pm.

    Thanks again everyone! Next time I'll be more careful

    Yours,

    Alison
    Originally posted by abfabally


    why would you apply to the court for removal? Did you write this contract yourself?
    • abfabally
    • By abfabally 8th Jan 18, 10:58 AM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    abfabally
    hi Anselld,

    it takes a little time to find someone - the only reason I allowed a few days lapse for the deposit was that I didn't want to have to go through the whole advertisement procedure again & meeting people. The deposit only covers 2 weeks; even if I started looking now, I probably wouldn't find a replacement to move in before 2 weeks. Maybe because I only asked for a deposit which only covers 2 weeks rent he thinks he can use me as a stop gap while he continues to look for somewhere more permanent (my spare room is only available until end April -which he was perfectly aware of before moving in), or maybe he genuinely doesn't have the rent money. If he's just late, he has until the end of today (3rd reminder) to resolve it. The longer I give him the benefit of the doubt, the more I put myself at risk... :/
    • abfabally
    • By abfabally 8th Jan 18, 11:01 AM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    abfabally
    hi Comms69,

    I downloaded a template from a website offering free templates for such things...
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 8th Jan 18, 11:02 AM
    • 1,757 Posts
    • 1,599 Thanks
    Comms69
    hi Comms69,

    I downloaded a template from a website offering free templates for such things...
    Originally posted by abfabally


    Fair enough, I'd avoid them in the future.


    You don't require a court order to remove a lodger.
    • abfabally
    • By abfabally 8th Jan 18, 11:05 AM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    abfabally
    Comms69,
    I have not signed the contract either. There's space for both signatures on the contract. He may have signed the copy I emailed to him, but it doesn't have my signature agreement on it yet. I only emailed him a copy in MS Word for him to review & sign & return to me for my signature.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 8th Jan 18, 11:24 AM
    • 1,757 Posts
    • 1,599 Thanks
    Comms69
    Comms69,
    I have not signed the contract either. There's space for both signatures on the contract. He may have signed the copy I emailed to him, but it doesn't have my signature agreement on it yet. I only emailed him a copy in MS Word for him to review & sign & return to me for my signature.
    Originally posted by abfabally


    Not really relevant though. The issuer is often held to the terms regardless. They suggested them afterall. (you cant claim you didn't agree to the terms if you provided them)


    Like I said. Give notice, don't remove any belongings. Both of these are to protect you from what could be an expensive claim (that £1200 watch that has now gone missing)
    • theartfullodger
    • By theartfullodger 8th Jan 18, 11:28 AM
    • 9,228 Posts
    • 12,243 Thanks
    theartfullodger
    For an agreement as a tenant or lodger of less than 3 years does not have to be written. (Or therefore not signed either) There is an agreement, it's verbal, though both you & he may argue it has the terms of the written one you both have copies of.
    • keithdc
    • By keithdc 8th Jan 18, 11:52 AM
    • 252 Posts
    • 494 Thanks
    keithdc
    Comms69,
    I have not signed the contract either. There's space for both signatures on the contract. He may have signed the copy I emailed to him, but it doesn't have my signature agreement on it yet. I only emailed him a copy in MS Word for him to review & sign & return to me for my signature.
    Originally posted by abfabally
    Seems a bit harsh having a go at the lodger for not signing, when you haven't signed.

    Why not just talk to them when they get back from work??
    • abfabally
    • By abfabally 8th Jan 18, 12:39 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    abfabally
    Panic over. He finally made the transfer after today's reminder Thanks everyone for your advice!
    • G_M
    • By G_M 8th Jan 18, 6:51 PM
    • 42,740 Posts
    • 49,961 Thanks
    G_M
    Glad it's sorted.

    Next time, don't let a lodger move in till all the paperwork and payments are complete.

    That includes the signed inventory.

    And next time don't just downlowd a contract because it's free - think about whether it's

    a) any good and

    bb) suitable for your circumstances, not just a generic one
    • sevenhills
    • By sevenhills 8th Jan 18, 8:24 PM
    • 827 Posts
    • 296 Thanks
    sevenhills
    My lodger is great, but then again I am very easy going, chill.

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