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  • FIRST POST
    • chris1012
    • By chris1012 6th Jan 18, 8:39 AM
    • 338Posts
    • 16Thanks
    chris1012
    Federation of Master Builders (FMB) - Dispute Process an absolute Joke!
    • #1
    • 6th Jan 18, 8:39 AM
    Federation of Master Builders (FMB) - Dispute Process an absolute Joke! 6th Jan 18 at 8:39 AM
    I have a dispute with my builder who carried out some works for me late last year.
    We appointed them based on the fact they were FMB and Trust Mark registered, provided us 10years guarantee on the work via IWA and the senior surveyor (spokes man for the company) assured us that they were the best company to carry out this task especially as we had a baby due soon after the works should complete.

    The job was carried out without due care and subsequently we had issues with the shoddy workmanship and items (black and white in writing) in the contract being completely missed out e.g. a water supply to our F/F, Sash Windows.

    We raised the concerns a few times during the works going on and on the third occasion the builder walked off site.

    We then had some emails sent back and forth however was not able to come to any satisfactory agreement.
    The builder offered some refunds but were unrealistic when compared to the cost of carry out the repair and outstanding work.


    We spoke to a solicitor whom advised us there was enough grounds to go to small claims court and likely win however the builders contract stated that at any point of dispute, we would need to seek assistance from FMB at the first instance....

    We contacted the dispute team at FMB in November and had to fill out a form raising all our issues and what we wanted as an outcome.
    We sent the form to FMB and had to wait 21 days for a response (FMB simply forwarded the complaint to the builder).
    After 21 days, the builder had not responded so FMB sent a chaser to the builder who responded a few days later (once again FMB forwarded over to us).

    FMB then advised us to continue the process we had to meet the builder to discuss the issues documented or the process could not continue (FMB were not interested about the specifics of our complaint and never/refused to discuss them).

    As we had no choice, we met the builder again to go through our initial complaint and as the company owner was still being very unreasonable, we felt we did not make any progress during the meeting but he advised us he would go back and amend some of the figures and pass the new proposal via FMB...

    We had to wait another 3 weeks for a response and once we did, the new proposal offered the same refunds, as per above, and again the values were the same.
    The builder even had the cheek to retract some refunds he initially offered, advise some areas of the issues no longer existed (in the first email response we had from him he acknowledge the issues and offered refunds for it) and even add some extra jobs he thought he had carried out as an extra even though they were clearly noted in the contract!
    As we had some building companies out to quote us for the repair/outstanding work, we knew a rough figure that was realistic, which we advised the builder through FMB again.

    I then got a call yesterday from FMB advising that they felt the builder had been fair and reasonable as they carried out a meeting and offered refunds, therefore we should be happy to accept.
    I advised that none of our concerns have been discussed in any detail and no individual let alone a building company, would carry out the outstanding repairs/jobs for the refunds offered, to which they responded they cannot advise on specifics.
    We rejected the proposal from the builder and they said there was nothing more they could do and close the case!


    What a waste of 2.5months!

    The building company are TrustMark registered as well but not sure if I should go down that avenue or now go direct to Small Claims Court.

    Anyone else had any disputes with FMB registered builders and what avenues did you have to go down to get your money back!?
    Last edited by chris1012; 06-01-2018 at 9:05 AM.
Page 2
    • chris1012
    • By chris1012 7th Jan 18, 1:22 PM
    • 338 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    chris1012
    We are back to the topics of honesty, of being genuine and not misleading folks. You say no builders mentioned the Regulations and you knew nothing about this. Yet you had a previous renovation/building job and you were well aware of your obligations then. So why not this time ...?

    Then you wrote the Specification in conjunction with the builder and now admit it referred to Part P, and gas testing ... so you were aware of Buildings Regulations matters this time round.

    The fact that you wrote this is is meaningless because you sought no Regulations. I accept you may have followed the self certification route but as in so many areas of your issues, folks do not know what happened.

    The more you write the more I worry about your chances in Court. I am even wondering if your next confession will be you paid cash ...?

    Be very careful, and remember the builder could contact your Local Authority and push to get you prosecuted for evading the Regulations. Of course, unlikely because the folks have better things to do. But your situation is rife in London and it only takes one Official to say "enough, let us have a case to send a warning out regarding all the illegal work which consumers are colluding with."

    The FMB are not fools - you are not happy with the recent outcome but the FMB will have you weighed up.

    Perhaps you can now see why my earlier post warned you about going to Court. You could end up being exposed over all this.

    Over and out since you dislike what I say, and offer no thanks. But give me a little credit. My view may be different to that of others and it is clearly different to what you want to hear. But that does not make it wrong. Even your comment about my take on block and beam floors is laughable. Is my knowledge "genuine" you have suggested. My intuition is I can run circles round you when it comes to knowledge of building!

    I am sure you are a lovely human being, but I am others in the construction industry would prefer to pick who we work with. Some folks are best avoided!
    Originally posted by Furts
    I feel you are being very unfair how you are judging me and the situation that has unfolded!
    Last time round the building company advised us through the whole process and we had the whole house renovated.
    This time round we was just redoing the floor and assumed without really thinking about it (yes, maybe incorrectly) that we didn't need it.

    Just because Electric/Gas Certs were required, that does not automatically mean someone would think they need building regs!

    I do not feel your posts are being helpful at all so not sure why you need to keep trying to make something out of nothing.

    The reality is that I took on a building company in good faith and should not of had any major issues with the 'building work'.
    Yes, this is about the issues that have unfolded rather than areas I should or should not have carried out.
    I have checked with other tilers/builders with regards to our floor and they are in agreement we have had a poor service.

    With regards to your comment about the FMB, it is literally as I said it.
    They literally discussed none of my complaint. They were simply a forwarding service between myself and the company.
    Upon looking online, it looks like they have had some recent changes in their process and others have had the same outcome so its in alignment with my experience.

    I thank you for your time, take on board some of your comments but I rather have post more to the point of the topic please.
    • Furts
    • By Furts 8th Jan 18, 8:21 AM
    • 3,758 Posts
    • 2,375 Thanks
    Furts
    You and I are at odds because, fundamentally, you refuse to be in the commercial world. Builders do not exist to hold your hand through a building project. Neither are they an education service. Neither are they a free quotation service. Neither are they a freebie way of getting a specification written. Builders exist to make a profit and this drives every decision. It follows that corners get cut, and all sorts happen - that is life and you and I are not going to change that.

    Having accepted all this ... one counters all this by adopting a professional approach and taking on professional help. Here you have failed dismally and from what I can determine you are still failing. In essence if you go to Court you will need professional advice, you will need facts and figures, you will need to quote technical standards, accuracy, and finishes. This means having, for example, a Clerk Of Works on board. Had you engaged one you would never be in your current situation. But perhaps better late than never.

    This in turn comes to where you and I differ in a second way. There is an unwillingness on your part to adopt a professional approach, to pay for help, and accept you might be wrong in the way you are going forward.
    • chris1012
    • By chris1012 8th Jan 18, 9:06 AM
    • 338 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    chris1012
    You and I are at odds because, fundamentally, you refuse to be in the commercial world. Builders do not exist to hold your hand through a building project. Neither are they an education service. Neither are they a free quotation service. Neither are they a freebie way of getting a specification written. Builders exist to make a profit and this drives every decision. It follows that corners get cut, and all sorts happen - that is life and you and I are not going to change that.

    Having accepted all this ... one counters all this by adopting a professional approach and taking on professional help. Here you have failed dismally and from what I can determine you are still failing. In essence if you go to Court you will need professional advice, you will need facts and figures, you will need to quote technical standards, accuracy, and finishes. This means having, for example, a Clerk Of Works on board. Had you engaged one you would never be in your current situation. But perhaps better late than never.

    This in turn comes to where you and I differ in a second way. There is an unwillingness on your part to adopt a professional approach, to pay for help, and accept you might be wrong in the way you are going forward.
    Originally posted by Furts
    With regards to your first paragraph, this should then be made clear from the outset from the building companies.
    Like myself, my neighbours and colleagues alike in London, we all have these services provided to us as a standard...
    So maybe your ways of working is different to others. Evidently it is not a blanket rule/service.

    As mentioned to you previously, others have seen my situation through a different lens and feel with a building/quantity surveyor report, it should not be too much of a task to seek compensation/damages.

    I am not and have not refused legal help.
    I have had a solicitor advise me in alignment above.

    The forums were used since the issues started and a lot of constructive advise has come from it but the responses doesn't always dictate facts and nor will it not dictate the next steps/outcome...
    • Doozergirl
    • By Doozergirl 8th Jan 18, 12:48 PM
    • 24,223 Posts
    • 67,024 Thanks
    Doozergirl
    Perhaps these services do come ‘as standard’ but it doesn’t automatically follow that the person you employ is the most capable at all things.

    If you are ‘fussy’ then you need to employ someone independent to specify and oversee the work rather than scratching your head when you trust one person and they don’t get it right.

    My main client employs a ‘four sets of eyes’ approach, agreed between all of us so there is no particular hierarchy of decision making.
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
    • teneighty
    • By teneighty 8th Jan 18, 1:21 PM
    • 1,077 Posts
    • 769 Thanks
    teneighty
    If the FMB conciliation service has failed to reach an amicable solution then the OP's only real option is Moneyclaim/Small Claims. At least they will get an unbiased impartial hearing, unlike the FMB.

    I don't see that Furts' default response of "its always the customers fault because they didn't employ a Clerk of Works" is very helpful.
    • Furts
    • By Furts 8th Jan 18, 3:46 PM
    • 3,758 Posts
    • 2,375 Thanks
    Furts
    With regards to your first paragraph, this should then be made clear from the outset from the building companies.
    Like myself, my neighbours and colleagues alike in London, we all have these services provided to us as a standard...
    Originally posted by chris1012
    Which is why you are all victims of cowboy builders. All of you have placed sales, presentation, BS, and spurious other items above genuine ability, and genuine professionalism. I suspect all of you are commercially naive and clueless on building. The latter point is fine because nobody knows about everything. However are any of you even willing to follow fundamentals and common sense to avoid being conned?

    All of you are looking to buy into an "emotional experience", to go on "a journey", and to "engage". However, the construction industry does not work like this, yet the cowboys do.

    London is rife with "rooms in gardens", dodgy loft conversions, dodgy renovations and dodgy extensions because consumers are allowing all this to happen. It follows that the cowboys take advantage of this, and are attracted to the area like moths to a lamp. There are rich pickings to be had because the consumers think they know best and they believe they can run the construction industry better than those who work in it.
    • -taff
    • By -taff 8th Jan 18, 5:38 PM
    • 7,338 Posts
    • 5,391 Thanks
    -taff
    All of you are looking to buy into an "emotional experience", to go on "a journey", and to "engage". However, the construction industry does not work like this, yet the cowboys do..
    Originally posted by Furts

    Best laugh of the day....
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