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  • FIRST POST
    • Mareczek
    • By Mareczek 6th Jan 18, 1:48 AM
    • 16Posts
    • 3Thanks
    Mareczek
    Help! MONEY CLAIM FROM BW LEGAL AFTER 5 YEARS 4 MONTHS
    • #1
    • 6th Jan 18, 1:48 AM
    Help! MONEY CLAIM FROM BW LEGAL AFTER 5 YEARS 4 MONTHS 6th Jan 18 at 1:48 AM
    Hi

    I would be very grateful for any advice on how to deal with an MCOL relating to a spurious 'parking charge' on 22 August 2012.

    My daughter has received a set of claim forms today (5 January 2018) from the County Court Business Centre in Northampton, initiated by BW Legal Services on behalf of Excel Parking Services.

    She appealed against the PCN promptly in 2012, on the grounds that she had never ever parked her car in The Square, Chorlton, Manchester. On the date concerned she did drive onto the car park with her late grandmother as a passenger, hoping to find a disabled space, as her grandmother was an elderly (88 years) wheelchair user. There were no disabled spaces available, so she left the car park immediately via the other entrance / exit.

    Some time later after having had lunch elsewhere in Manchester, she returned to The Square Car Park via the entrance / exit she had previously departed from, as they wished to visit Boots the Chemist in the precinct. Again, there were no disabled spaces available, so she promptly left the car park via the opposite entrance / exit to the one she had just arrived in.

    She explained all this in writing as per the firm's policy, and pointed out that if she had parked her vehicle in that car park, surely there must be photographic evidence of that. Of course there was no photographic evidence of her vehicle being parked in the car park. She did ask how could she be charged for parking if she could not park, as there were no disabled spaces available, and she left the car park immediately on establishing that. Excel did not respond to that query, but asked her to produce evidence that she had been somewhere else, at the time they asserted she was parked in the car park. At that point I got involved, and asked her to ignore any further communications from Excel.

    She did not hear any more from anyone until last year, when she received several threatening phone calls from BW Legal (I don't know how they got her number), and a number of threatening letters from BW Legal. None of the original paperwork from over 5 years ago is available, nor are the more recent two letters from BW Legal (binned).

    My daughter is a highly qualified and dedicated school teacher, and has never had any convictions or fines, motoring or otherwise. She is an innocent in these matters, and doesn't deserve this hassle.

    BW Legal are claiming £100.00 PCN, interest of £39.22, 'contractual costs pursuant to PCN terms and conditions' of £54.00. In addition there is a £25.00 Court Fee, and Legal Representative's costs of £50.00. Total £268.22.

    Sorry for the length of this saga. This event happened 5 years 4 months ago.

    Thank You
Page 1
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 6th Jan 18, 2:32 AM
    • 1,541 Posts
    • 1,692 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    • #2
    • 6th Jan 18, 2:32 AM
    • #2
    • 6th Jan 18, 2:32 AM
    Hi!
    Have you had chance to read the newbies thread?
    Post 2

    Please tell us issue date, and confirm that YOUR DAUGHTER has acknowledged the claim ONLINE ? If she hasn’t do it now. Do not do any5hing as regards a defence. Follow newbies thread precisely.
    • Mareczek
    • By Mareczek 6th Jan 18, 3:40 AM
    • 16 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Mareczek
    • #3
    • 6th Jan 18, 3:40 AM
    • #3
    • 6th Jan 18, 3:40 AM
    Hi nosferatu1001!

    The Issue date is 04 JAN 2018.

    Can I arrange for my daughter to do the acknowledgement online tomorrow (Saturday 6 JAN 2018)?

    Thank you
    • claxtome
    • By claxtome 6th Jan 18, 5:49 AM
    • 473 Posts
    • 512 Thanks
    claxtome
    • #4
    • 6th Jan 18, 5:49 AM
    • #4
    • 6th Jan 18, 5:49 AM
    Can I arrange for my daughter to do the acknowledgement online tomorrow (Saturday 6 JAN 2018)?
    Yes, the earlier the better.
    Ensure she carefully follows the instructions in the NEWBIEs sticky post #2 (about half way through it) and doesn't put anything as a defence.

    The defence comes later
    • Loadsofchildren123
    • By Loadsofchildren123 6th Jan 18, 10:12 AM
    • 1,879 Posts
    • 3,070 Thanks
    Loadsofchildren123
    • #5
    • 6th Jan 18, 10:12 AM
    • #5
    • 6th Jan 18, 10:12 AM
    If you want to buy more time for your defence you don’t have to lodge the AoS for 14 days
    Although a practising Solicitor, my posts here are NOT legal advice, but are personal opinion based on limited facts provided anonymously by forum users. I accept no liability for the accuracy of any such posts and users are advised that, if they wish to obtain formal legal advice specific to their case, they must seek instruct and pay a solicitor.
    • Loadsofchildren123
    • By Loadsofchildren123 6th Jan 18, 10:14 AM
    • 1,879 Posts
    • 3,070 Thanks
    Loadsofchildren123
    • #6
    • 6th Jan 18, 10:14 AM
    • #6
    • 6th Jan 18, 10:14 AM
    Does your daughter have any evidence (eg bank statement/credit card entry) to back up where she was? Grandmother is presumably elderly but can you get her to do a statement backing up daughter’s story?
    Court has to decide on balance of probabilities who it believes. They are very likely to believe your daughter, particularly if she is backed up by grandmother.
    Although a practising Solicitor, my posts here are NOT legal advice, but are personal opinion based on limited facts provided anonymously by forum users. I accept no liability for the accuracy of any such posts and users are advised that, if they wish to obtain formal legal advice specific to their case, they must seek instruct and pay a solicitor.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 6th Jan 18, 1:43 PM
    • 52,887 Posts
    • 66,417 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #7
    • 6th Jan 18, 1:43 PM
    • #7
    • 6th Jan 18, 1:43 PM
    Do tell your DD she will win this and there will be no CCJ or effect on her credit rating as long as you/she sticks around here. Right through until they virtually see the whites of her determined eyes and finally discontinue, or they lose against her at a hearing. She can claim her costs so keep a notebook and posting receipts, etc.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Mareczek
    • By Mareczek 6th Jan 18, 2:22 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Mareczek
    • #8
    • 6th Jan 18, 2:22 PM
    • #8
    • 6th Jan 18, 2:22 PM
    She does not have any receipts, and she paid cash for lunch that day. Unfortunately, her Grandmother passed away in 2016.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 6th Jan 18, 2:56 PM
    • 52,887 Posts
    • 66,417 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #9
    • 6th Jan 18, 2:56 PM
    • #9
    • 6th Jan 18, 2:56 PM
    Posting receipts for costs purposes later, I meant. Although I see LOC123 mentioned getting bank statement proof.

    Sorry to hear about her Grandmother, who seems to have lived an active long life despite her difficulties.

    At the later Witness statement stage, the Defendant could instead include a WS from a another relative, e.g. you, because you know that it was Grandma driving.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Mareczek
    • By Mareczek 6th Jan 18, 6:53 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Mareczek
    For clarification purposes, my daughter was driving, her grandmother was a passenger in the car.

    I have received different advice on the acknowlegment of service issue a) e mail it off immediately? b) emai it off anytime within 14 days?

    Which should it be?

    Thanks very much.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 6th Jan 18, 7:08 PM
    • 16,355 Posts
    • 25,449 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    I have received different advice on the acknowlegment of service issue a) e mail it off immediately? b) emai it off anytime within 14 days?
    Theyíre both as good as each other, as either will give you 33 days from the date of issue shown in the top r/h corner of the court claim form (thatís 5 days for postal service plus 14 days standard allowance plus a further 14 days to produce your defence). Donít leave it beyond the 5 days plus 14 to acknowledge, otherwise youíre into default judgment territory.

    Sending in the AoS (but no defence at this stage) as soon as possible gets it out of the way and you can get on with drafting your defence. There is no merit or advantage in delaying the AoS.
    Last edited by Umkomaas; 07-01-2018 at 9:50 PM. Reason: Their/there brain lapse! Oh dear, my primary school teacher will be turning in their (right this time) grave
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 6th Jan 18, 8:11 PM
    • 52,887 Posts
    • 66,417 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    You are not emailing the AOS.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Mareczek
    • By Mareczek 6th Jan 18, 8:34 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Mareczek
    Sorry, I realise the AOS is dealt with online by logging on to moneyclaim.

    Many thanks
    • Loadsofchildren123
    • By Loadsofchildren123 6th Jan 18, 8:36 PM
    • 1,879 Posts
    • 3,070 Thanks
    Loadsofchildren123
    Do a statement (at WS stage) from another relative who can say she was driving grandmother that day. As long as D can say she recalls the day and what happened and where they went I would expect the court to believe her because the PPC can’t produce to counter her story.
    Although a practising Solicitor, my posts here are NOT legal advice, but are personal opinion based on limited facts provided anonymously by forum users. I accept no liability for the accuracy of any such posts and users are advised that, if they wish to obtain formal legal advice specific to their case, they must seek instruct and pay a solicitor.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 6th Jan 18, 9:13 PM
    • 52,887 Posts
    • 66,417 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    And the time taken was merely to look for a disabled bay, then drive out, and they came back later and went through the same issues (clearly not enough disabled bays if it happened twice).

    Not parking at all, not a contravention, and certainly not a single 'period of parking'.

    And to charge for the time to drive round/wait for a disabled bay is illegal under the Equality Act 2010 (...obviously the Act doesn't say those words about disabled bays specifically, it's about the discrimination, disabled provision failures and harassment being illegal!).

    It's a failure by a service provider, to make a reasonable adjustment, and discrimination by harassment of that disabled person/their carer. As well as a baseless claim because it was a double dip case!
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 07-01-2018 at 10:07 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Mareczek
    • By Mareczek 7th Jan 18, 5:47 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Mareczek
    Thank you Coupon-mad, that sounds like a great defence, I have my late Mum's (daughter's Grandma) Disabled Badge somewhere, will hunt it out.

    Many thanks
    • logician
    • By logician 7th Jan 18, 9:38 PM
    • 127 Posts
    • 63 Thanks
    logician
    If you want to buy more time for your defence you donít have to lodge the AoS for 14 days
    Originally posted by Loadsofchildren123
    Why - this will have no bearing on the amount of time the OP's daughter will have to file the defence. As Umkomaas states if the acknowledgment of service is done, this extends the time to file the defence to 28 days from service of the claim

    (so a total of 33 days from the printed issue date on the claim form)

    Hi nosferatu1001!

    The Issue date is 04 JAN 2018.



    Thank you
    Originally posted by Mareczek
    this means the claim is deemed served on the 9th January

    Your daughter needs to either respond to the claim and file the defence by the 23rd January or

    Acknowledge service of the claim by the 23rd and submit/file the defence by 6th Feb at the latest

    I have received different advice on the acknowlegment of service issue a) e mail it off immediately? b) emai it off anytime within 14 days?

    Which should it be?

    Thanks very much.
    Originally posted by Mareczek
    For clarification then - to acknowledge the claim:

    Your daughter needs to create an account on MCOL - register as an individual and she will need to make a note of the ID number created as part of the registration process
    An MCOL customer number is also created as part of the process.

    Your daughter will need the claim number and the password on the front page of the claim form.

    Select the options to complete the acknowledge of service

    Tick the box "I intend to defend the claim in full"

    If you live in E& W - do not contest jurisdiction.

    Do not put anything in the Defence box if you are simply acknowledging the claim

    Your daughter can sign her name on electronically on the form before submitting this.

    The system will create a document of the acknowledgment which you should download and save/print.

    You cannot conduct the case for her and she would be wise to come to the forum herself as I am sure third party communications will prove to be difficult at some point.
    • logician
    • By logician 7th Jan 18, 9:43 PM
    • 127 Posts
    • 63 Thanks
    logician
    Hi

    I would be very grateful for any advice on how to deal with an MCOL relating to a spurious 'parking charge' on 22 August 2012.

    My daughter has received a set of claim forms today (5 January 2018) from the County Court Business Centre in Northampton, initiated by BW Legal Services on behalf of Excel Parking Services.

    She appealed against the PCN promptly in 2012, on the grounds that she had never ever parked her car in The Square, Chorlton, Manchester. On the date concerned she did drive onto the car park with her late grandmother as a passenger, hoping to find a disabled space, as her grandmother was an elderly (88 years) wheelchair user. There were no disabled spaces available, so she left the car park immediately via the other entrance / exit.
    Originally posted by Mareczek
    this was pre-POFA (not that Excel were compliant even afterwards)

    But it looks as if she appealed initially.

    And the time taken was merely to look for a disabled bay, then drive out, and they came back later and went through the same issues (clearly not enough disabled bays if it happened twice).

    Not parking at all, not a contravention, and certainly not a single 'period of parking'.

    And to charge for the time to drive round/wait for a disabled bay is illegal under the Equality Act 2010 (...obviously the Act doesn't say those words about dusabled bays specifically, it's about the discrimination, disabled provision failures and harassment being illegal!).

    It's a failure by a service provider, to make a reasonable adjustment, and discrimination by harassment of that disabled person/their carer. As well as a baseless claim because it was a double dip case!
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    Thank you Coupon-mad, that sounds like a great defence, I have my late Mum's (daughter's Grandma) Disabled Badge somewhere, will hunt it out.

    Many thanks
    Originally posted by Mareczek
    The disabled/Equality Act aspect is only ONE part of the defence, you should put other points and put up the draft for critique

    IIRC this location has been known for ANPR errors and double dips - pretty sure I read a blog about this location.
    Last edited by logician; 07-01-2018 at 9:47 PM.
    • Mareczek
    • By Mareczek 7th Jan 18, 10:50 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Mareczek
    Thanks for that Logician and everyone else! I do understand that the defence needs to be as comprehensive as possible, as I have observed on the superb posts elsewhere on the forum.

    Excel were banned from accessing DVLA Keepers records for 3 months within living memory, would that be a helpful line in the defence document, to illustrate Excel's previous bad behaviour?

    Many thanks
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 7th Jan 18, 10:54 PM
    • 52,887 Posts
    • 66,417 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Yes, because it's exactly at the right time:

    https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/139931/response/342099/attach/html/2/FOIR3196%20Thorn.pdf.html

    A complaint was made to DVLA in September 2012
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

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