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  • FIRST POST
    • Keto Plastics
    • By Keto Plastics 5th Jan 18, 11:15 AM
    • 38Posts
    • 9Thanks
    Keto Plastics
    Landlord selling / sold house need some legal advice
    • #1
    • 5th Jan 18, 11:15 AM
    Landlord selling / sold house need some legal advice 5th Jan 18 at 11:15 AM
    Hi All

    Need some advice as been informed today via phone call that the Landlord has sold the house and wants Me to move out in two months time because the new owners want possession (the estate agent said they are sending out the paperwork tomorrow, section 21 I assume)

    What I need to know is what My legal rights are under the circumstances
    Keto-Plastics
Page 4
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 6th Jan 18, 2:21 PM
    • 16,296 Posts
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    FBaby
    LL has tried selling the house before BUT NO ONE wanted it for the price he was asking because of the condition of it (and it was very bad)
    But that's my point, you were happy to be there though before they decided to sell. You were not forced to stay, let alone put a new kitchen, you could have given notice and moved just as you will ultimately have to do. Maybe you are forgetting to mention that you actually got a reduction in rent for putting in a new kitchen, who knows.

    'Bully tactics' is a very subjective matter. Many use it when they are asked to do things they don't want to do or bury their head in the sand.

    The point remains, you will stay longer, causing much trouble, but is this really going to benefit you? Will you be able to save a deposit during that time? Will you find it easier to find somewhere else to live, with a negative reference that will make it that much harder for you?

    It's all very well wanting revenge, but in the end, you won't win, you'll still have to go and your actions might just make it even harder for you to find not only a good property but also a good future landlord.
    • Keto Plastics
    • By Keto Plastics 6th Jan 18, 2:55 PM
    • 38 Posts
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    Keto Plastics
    But that's my point, you were happy to be there though before they decided to sell. You were not forced to stay, let alone put a new kitchen, you could have given notice and moved just as you will ultimately have to do. Maybe you are forgetting to mention that you actually got a reduction in rent for putting in a new kitchen, who knows.

    'Bully tactics' is a very subjective matter. Many use it when they are asked to do things they don't want to do or bury their head in the sand.

    The point remains, you will stay longer, causing much trouble, but is this really going to benefit you? Will you be able to save a deposit during that time? Will you find it easier to find somewhere else to live, with a negative reference that will make it that much harder for you?

    It's all very well wanting revenge, but in the end, you won't win, you'll still have to go and your actions might just make it even harder for you to find not only a good property but also a good future landlord.
    Originally posted by FBaby
    Actually got a reduction ? how do You work that out ? Where did I say I did ? no where ? because I never did say it or even get a reduction in rent, for replacing the kitchen or anything else for that matter I still had to pay FULL RENT at the same time of spending in excess of a thousand pound for a new kitchen and then the time it took to replace / install it

    From My posts does it really seem like I am placing My head in the sand ? No ?
    How do You work that one out ?
    Bully tactics they have used is by saying they will issue a S21 IF I DO NOT do what they want Me to do when they want Me to do it and also other ways
    When You reply MAKE SURE YOU KNOW THE FACTS and stop pulling things out of thin air

    Who said anything about wanting revenge ? Because I never did, all I would like is to be treated FAIRLY and for the things that they do to be LEGAL, something that has NOT happened so far
    They have acted Illegally and threatened and bullied (whether You accept that or not is Your problem NOT Mine)

    Seems like You are a LL and have been through something similar with a previous tenant... and You have an Axe to grind on any and all people that remind You of that

    Are You going to inject something helpful or constructive or are You purely here for that reason I just mentioned ? (IF I am right, certainly seems that way TBH)
    Keto-Plastics
    • G_M
    • By G_M 6th Jan 18, 3:02 PM
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    G_M
    Fbaby said "maybe".

    The points being made were that
    a) we only have ONE side of the story (there are always two)
    b) we may not have the FULL side of the story
    c) ultiately you WILL have to leave at some point
    d) you CHOSE to invest your own cash into the property - noone FORCED you

    Having said that, you've received lots of advice on your legal rights. What you decide to do is then up to YOU.

    Note: putting LOTS of capitalisations in your post makes you appear OVERLY defensive, antagonistic, and somewhat childish - just a hint for future reference.......
    • Keto Plastics
    • By Keto Plastics 6th Jan 18, 3:11 PM
    • 38 Posts
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    Keto Plastics
    Fbaby said "maybe".

    The points being made were that
    a) we only have ONE side of the story (there are always two)
    b) we may not have the FULL side of the story
    c) ultiately you WILL have to leave at some point
    d) you CHOSE to invest your own cash into the property - noone FORCED you

    Having said that, you've received lots of advice on your legal rights. What you decide to do is then up to YOU.

    Note: putting LOTS of capitalisations in your post makes you appear OVERLY defensive, antagonistic, and somewhat childish - just a hint for future reference.......
    Originally posted by G_M
    I see Your point, I just get a bit P'd off with people that assume certain things and do not even add anything constructive, that just seem to have an axe to grind for whatever reason, as it seemed FBaby does
    Keto-Plastics
    • elsien
    • By elsien 6th Jan 18, 3:30 PM
    • 15,663 Posts
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    elsien
    Does the phrase cutting your nose off to spite your face mean anything to you?

    Phone won't let me quote but I'm referring to your post a few back about being stubborn because of LLs attitude. Post 57.

    If you can negotiate a good reference, your deposit back early and however much you want for the kitchen, then is it really worth the hassle of being deliberately obstructive?
    You're going to have to move at some point. Better to do it on your own terms than turfed out by a court with the subsequent impact on references. Plus the possibility of the LL continuing to be an @rse while he tries to get you out.
    Pride really isn't worth it.
    Last edited by elsien; 06-01-2018 at 3:34 PM.
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
    • pinkshoes
    • By pinkshoes 6th Jan 18, 4:29 PM
    • 15,470 Posts
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    pinkshoes
    Yes I will be here for a few more months
    And yes I have considered various things, one of those being the situation of the landlord
    Due to the LL's decisions and actions is one of the reasons I am doing what I am

    The LL and their agents are acting Illegally while trying to use bully tactics (But You do not care about that do You ? )
    IF the LL came to Me and treated Me with respect instead of trying to bully and threatening Me then My actions now might have been different

    LL has tried selling the house before BUT NO ONE wanted it for the price he was asking because of the condition of it (and it was very bad)
    But now that I have fixed the place up and after he knows that He decided to place it back on the market BECAUSE I fixed it up with a new kitchen and so on (You don't care about that also do You ? )
    Originally posted by Keto Plastics
    I appreciate your LL is being an a-hole, but please don't cut off your nose to spite your face when you are in a good position to negotiate.

    At the moment, I would be writing a firm but polite letter to your LL (not mentioning the letter) but stating that you installed a kitchen on the basis that it was a long term let, so the kitchen belongs to you and that upon your departure you will be removing the new kitchen and re-installing his old kitchen. Then state that if he wishes to purchase the new kitchen for a sum of £XXXX cash, you will be happy to leave it in place.

    (This will then give you a deposit to find somewhere else...)
    Should've = Should HAVE (not 'of')
    Would've = Would HAVE (not 'of')

    No, I am not perfect, but yes I do judge people on their use of basic English language. If you didn't know the above, then learn it! (If English is your second language, then you are forgiven!)
    • steampowered
    • By steampowered 6th Jan 18, 4:30 PM
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    steampowered
    Op, you've mentioned the phases "bullying" and "bully tactics" several times. However, you have not explained what you think the landlord did to justify this description.

    The landlord wanting you to leave so that he can sell the property is not "bullying". It is perfectly reasonable for the landlord to do that. There are any number of reasons why the landlord might want to sell the property.

    Why do you say you thought you were staying in the property? Unless the landlord actually promised to let you stay in the property, I think it is unreasonable to be stubborn for the sake of it.
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 7th Jan 18, 8:32 AM
    • 16,296 Posts
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    FBaby
    I see Your point, I just get a bit P'd off with people that assume certain things and do not even add anything constructive, that just seem to have an axe to grind for whatever reason, as it seemed FBaby does
    To be fair, my response was not so much directed at your posts but that of a poster who automatically advise people to make themselves helpless rather than looking at how they can make due of the situation to benefit them rather than thinking of action to punish the person who is putting them in the situation in the first place.

    You seem to be letting your anger speak out and as such focusing on the past and present, forgetting about the future. Not minimizing your anger, and indeed, if you agreed with the LL to put a new kitchen a few months before being told the house was to be sold and got nothing for it, then this is morally despicable, but my point is that it doesn't change anything at all. You will have to move out, so your efforts should be 100% on trying to find somewhere else that will be a much better experience for you, not waiting helplessly thinking of ways to make things as hard as possible for the LL. In the end, they WILL get what they want, so make sure that you do to.
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 7th Jan 18, 8:35 AM
    • 16,296 Posts
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    FBaby
    By the way, don't know it's been mentioned already, but if you bought the kitchen, have receipt for it, and there was no written agreement with the LL that it would reduce the rent for X months as a result (or whatever else), then the kitchen is yours. Dismantle it and sell it on ebay!

    I think this would be legal, but the experts can confirm.
    • ProDave
    • By ProDave 7th Jan 18, 10:51 AM
    • 532 Posts
    • 601 Thanks
    ProDave
    By the way, don't know it's been mentioned already, but if you bought the kitchen, have receipt for it, and there was no written agreement with the LL that it would reduce the rent for X months as a result (or whatever else), then the kitchen is yours. Dismantle it and sell it on ebay!

    I think this would be legal, but the experts can confirm.
    Originally posted by FBaby
    As long as you put back the old kitchen exactly as it was. However I suspect the OP may not have carefully stored the old units in case.

    You can't remove it and leave it without a kitchen.
    • theartfullodger
    • By theartfullodger 7th Jan 18, 11:20 AM
    • 9,239 Posts
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    theartfullodger
    You can leave no kitchen:. But Landlord will probably sue for losses (obsv).

    But if old kitchen was clapped-out & worth nothing not much losses.
    Last edited by theartfullodger; 07-01-2018 at 2:09 PM.
    • Keto Plastics
    • By Keto Plastics 7th Jan 18, 9:49 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    Keto Plastics
    Op, you've mentioned the phases "bullying" and "bully tactics" several times. However, you have not explained what you think the landlord did to justify this description.

    The landlord wanting you to leave so that he can sell the property is not "bullying". It is perfectly reasonable for the landlord to do that. There are any number of reasons why the landlord might want to sell the property.

    Why do you say you thought you were staying in the property? Unless the landlord actually promised to let you stay in the property, I think it is unreasonable to be stubborn for the sake of it.
    Originally posted by steampowered
    Last time the LL came to the property they was abusive and using threatening behavior, threatening various things, including giving Me a section 21 IF I did not do what they wanted when they wanted it done
    The LL went to the local shop 5 minutes previous to coming to the property and was afaik from what I have been told was being aggressive
    They are taller than Me and thought I would cower in the corner of My own home, they was wrong, next time they come to the property and act the way they did previously I will call the police
    It has absolutely nothing to do with wanting Me to leave so that He can sell the property or getting revenge or whatever

    I am not being unreasonable in My actions, far from it, I am simply looking out for My own interests and My own legal rights, and the LL or anyone else would also do the same in My situation
    I know for a fact that they would not have sold the property if it was not for Me changing the kitchen and also doing some work that the LL asked Me to do to the property, which I have been informed He will not be paying Me for, work that has also helped him sell the property (he had it on the market before and no one wanted to pay the price for the condition it was in at the time, that was a while before I moved into the property from what I have been told)
    Keto-Plastics
    • Slithery
    • By Slithery 7th Jan 18, 10:05 PM
    • 504 Posts
    • 783 Thanks
    Slithery
    Me and my don't start with a capital letters.
    • Keto Plastics
    • By Keto Plastics 7th Jan 18, 10:15 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    Keto Plastics
    To be fair, my response was not so much directed at your posts but that of a poster who automatically advise people to make themselves helpless rather than looking at how they can make due of the situation to benefit them rather than thinking of action to punish the person who is putting them in the situation in the first place.

    You seem to be letting your anger speak out and as such focusing on the past and present, forgetting about the future. Not minimizing your anger, and indeed, if you agreed with the LL to put a new kitchen a few months before being told the house was to be sold and got nothing for it, then this is morally despicable, but my point is that it doesn't change anything at all. You will have to move out, so your efforts should be 100% on trying to find somewhere else that will be a much better experience for you, not waiting helplessly thinking of ways to make things as hard as possible for the LL. In the end, they WILL get what they want, so make sure that you do to.
    Originally posted by FBaby
    Sometimes wires can get crossed in text on forums and I apologize, most likely read what was written by Yourself, wrongfully, Sorry

    Yes that is basically what the LL has done, and as You can imagine I am angry at that especially now I am in a position where I cannot afford to find a new place to live and I will eventually be homeless and if the worst comes to the worst will be living on the streets, all the while the landlord has profited off a nice new kitchen and work I have done to the property (some of which He asked Me to do and never paid Me for when He said He would)

    That is My primary goal is to find somewhere to Live not make things difficult for the LL
    I am just looking out for My own interests and My own legal rights, especially with how they are acting illegally
    Would not mind if I had rent arrears or been a bad tenant, rent is always paid on time every time it is due and I also look after the property (probably the only one who has in years)
    Keto-Plastics
    • Keto Plastics
    • By Keto Plastics 7th Jan 18, 10:22 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    Keto Plastics
    Me and my don't start with a capital letters.
    Originally posted by Slithery
    Whatevs lol

    Not here to discuss grammar or splleing (that was on purpose lol)

    I will say this tho I have always been taught by teachers when I was younger that they did start with a capital letter, is why I have always done that for as long as I can remember
    Keto-Plastics
    • Keto Plastics
    • By Keto Plastics 7th Jan 18, 10:28 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    Keto Plastics
    As long as you put back the old kitchen exactly as it was. However I suspect the OP may not have carefully stored the old units in case.

    You can't remove it and leave it without a kitchen.
    Originally posted by ProDave
    You would be right, they was smashed up with a hammer and then dumped in the local tip (was the best place for them TBH )
    Keto-Plastics
    • steampowered
    • By steampowered 7th Jan 18, 10:43 PM
    • 2,077 Posts
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    steampowered
    Last time the LL came to the property they was abusive and using threatening behavior, threatening various things, including giving Me a section 21 IF I did not do what they wanted when they wanted it done

    The LL went to the local shop 5 minutes previous to coming to the property and was afaik from what I have been told was being aggressive

    They are taller than Me and thought I would cower in the corner of My own home, they was wrong, next time they come to the property and act the way they did previously I will call the police
    It has absolutely nothing to do with wanting Me to leave so that He can sell the property or getting revenge or whatever

    I am not being unreasonable in My actions, far from it, I am simply looking out for My own interests and My own legal rights, and the LL or anyone else would also do the same in My situation
    I know for a fact that they would not have sold the property if it was not for Me changing the kitchen and also doing some work that the LL asked Me to do to the property, which I have been informed He will not be paying Me for, work that has also helped him sell the property (he had it on the market before and no one wanted to pay the price for the condition it was in at the time, that was a while before I moved into the property from what I have been told)
    Originally posted by Keto Plastics
    It may just be me, but I still don't really understand what the landlord did so wrong.

    Clearly you did not appreciate the landlord saying he would serve you with a section 21 notice, but I wouldn't describe that as a "threat" or as "bullying". It is perfectly legitimate and reasonable for a landlord to want to sell his property and to say that he will serve a section 21 to achieve that.

    When you start talking about how the landlord was aggressive to the local shop, not even to you, it is starting to sound like you are clutching at straws.

    I don't really know what happened as I wasn't there. But I do know that being stubborn for the sake of it will not get you anywhere - and may well backfire, as you will be without a reference and potentially liable for legal costs if the landlord has to take it to court.

    I understand that you want to be paid for the value-add of installing a new kitchen. But at the end of the day, unless the landlord actually promised to give you a longer tenancy or to reimburse you for the cost of the kitchen, he didn't promise anything.

    I agree with others that your energy is best directed to finding a new place and working out an arrangement with the landlord that allows you to move there. A full refund of the deposit in time to pay the deposit on a new place would be a good arrangement to make with the landlord. Please don't stress yourself out trying to get back at the landlord.

    I actually thought the letter you posted from the letting agent looked quite nice and helpful. They were offering to help you find a new property. It might be worth taking them up on that? The fact that they need you out the other property will incentivise the agent to be helpful for finding a new one?
    Last edited by steampowered; 07-01-2018 at 10:48 PM.
    • Slithery
    • By Slithery 7th Jan 18, 10:47 PM
    • 504 Posts
    • 783 Thanks
    Slithery
    Whatevs lol

    Not here to discuss grammar or splleing (that was on purpose lol)

    I will say this tho I have always been taught by teachers when I was younger that they did start with a capital letter, is why I have always done that for as long as I can remember
    Originally posted by Keto Plastics
    It was just a bit of friendly advice to make your posts sound more acceptable.

    Using Me and My makes you sound angry and entitled
    • Keto Plastics
    • By Keto Plastics 7th Jan 18, 10:49 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    Keto Plastics
    Honestly, I don't really understand what the landlord did so wrong.

    Clearly you did not appreciate the landlord saying he would serve you with a section 21 notice, but I wouldn't describe that as a "threat". It is perfectly legitimate for a landlord to want to serve a section 21 if he wants to sell the property.

    When you start talking about how the landlord was aggressive to the shop (not even to you), it is starting to sound like you are clutching at straws.

    I don't really know what happened as I wasn't there. But I do know that being deliberately stubborn for the sake of it will not get you anywhere - and may well backfire, as you will be without a reference and potentially liable for legal costs if the landlord has to take it to court.

    I understand that you want to be paid for the value-add of installing a new kitchen. But at the end of the day, unless the landlord actually promised to give you a longer tenancy or to reimburse you for the cost of the kitchen, he didn't promise anything.

    I agree with others that your energy is best directed to finding a new place and working out an arrangement with the landlord that allows you to move there.

    I actually thought the letter you posted from the letting agent looked quite nice and helpful. They were offering to help you find a new property.
    Originally posted by steampowered
    You was not here to witness the aggressive threatening behavior of the LL IF You was then You would fully understand why I said He was acting in a threatening manner and trying to bully Me

    I did not state that the letter was anything but those things You mentioned, I posted that letter because someone did not believe that the agents stated they would be out on a set date and time to collect the keys etc and to get Me to move out on that date, that is all
    Keto-Plastics
    • steampowered
    • By steampowered 7th Jan 18, 11:36 PM
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    steampowered
    You was not here to witness the aggressive threatening behavior of the LL IF You was then You would fully understand why I said He was acting in a threatening manner and trying to bully Me

    I did not state that the letter was anything but those things You mentioned, I posted that letter because someone did not believe that the agents stated they would be out on a set date and time to collect the keys etc and to get Me to move out on that date, that is all
    Originally posted by Keto Plastics
    Indeed, I was not there. We can only advise based on the information you give us. Based on the information you give us, I am in the dark as to what the landlord did to justify the accusation of being a bully.

    Either way, it is irrelevant I suppose. Whether the landlord is the nicest person in the world or the nastiest person in the world, he is still entitled to serve a section 21 to end the tenancy.

    And he doesn't have to pay you for the kitchen (unless he promised to do so).

    The question is really how you want to conduct yourself to achieve the best possible outcome.
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