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  • FIRST POST
    • Keto Plastics
    • By Keto Plastics 5th Jan 18, 11:15 AM
    • 38Posts
    • 9Thanks
    Keto Plastics
    Landlord selling / sold house need some legal advice
    • #1
    • 5th Jan 18, 11:15 AM
    Landlord selling / sold house need some legal advice 5th Jan 18 at 11:15 AM
    Hi All

    Need some advice as been informed today via phone call that the Landlord has sold the house and wants Me to move out in two months time because the new owners want possession (the estate agent said they are sending out the paperwork tomorrow, section 21 I assume)

    What I need to know is what My legal rights are under the circumstances
    Keto-Plastics
Page 3
    • Cakeguts
    • By Cakeguts 5th Jan 18, 5:58 PM
    • 3,522 Posts
    • 4,874 Thanks
    Cakeguts
    As far as I know yes it does
    IF I was to do that and leave the house in the condition it was in when I moved in then guaranteed they would withold the deposit, it was disgusting (and that is nothing to do with the cupboards, house full stop)
    Originally posted by Keto Plastics
    Not if you had photos of what it was like when you moved in. This is one of the reasons why people suggest that you take photos of a house when you move in and when you leave.

    What you want I suspect is for the landlord not to benefit from your new kitchen in the house? So you need to negotiate. The landlord wants you out in two months and you don't have the money to go then so you need to decide how much you want the landlord to pay you for the kitchen and you will want your whole deposit back as well.
    • Keto Plastics
    • By Keto Plastics 5th Jan 18, 6:11 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    Keto Plastics
    Not if you had photos of what it was like when you moved in. This is one of the reasons why people suggest that you take photos of a house when you move in and when you leave.

    What you want I suspect is for the landlord not to benefit from your new kitchen in the house? So you need to negotiate. The landlord wants you out in two months and you don't have the money to go then so you need to decide how much you want the landlord to pay you for the kitchen and you will want your whole deposit back as well.
    Originally posted by Cakeguts
    Got photos and also updated the inventory they done accordingly to rectify the many mistakes in it on the condition of the house and gave them a copy for their records

    Landlord benefiting from it is not a problem but his actions so far are and the way they have gone about things is
    LL will not pay for the kitchen not even one penny I know that much, They are the type of person that puts Scrooge to shame (In My opinion)

    I am going to try and get the whole deposit back BUT I am not hopeful as it is the agents they have want exit fees taking out of it already and then I have a feeling the LL will try and find something wrong ( whether or not I have done it does not matter) with the house to withold the deposit (even with the photos and updated inventory)
    Keto-Plastics
    • GrumpyDil
    • By GrumpyDil 5th Jan 18, 6:34 PM
    • 131 Posts
    • 86 Thanks
    GrumpyDil
    Keto.

    The landlord will have to justify any deductions to the scheme holding your deposit or in court if that is the option they choose. From experience the arbitrators can be very picky. In my case they refused to cover the cost of replacing a light fitting where the tenant had removed one of the bulb covers on the basis that I should be able to just replace the missing cover! (That's not something I've not managed to do so have replaced the fitting at my cost). Unless they have a signed independent inventory which evidences elements of the property are left in a worse state than when you moved in they will not have much luck with withholding much if any of your deposit.
    • glentoran99
    • By glentoran99 5th Jan 18, 6:37 PM
    • 4,996 Posts
    • 4,010 Thanks
    glentoran99
    Got photos and also updated the inventory they done accordingly to rectify the many mistakes in it on the condition of the house and gave them a copy for their records

    Landlord benefiting from it is not a problem but his actions so far are and the way they have gone about things is
    LL will not pay for the kitchen not even one penny I know that much, They are the type of person that puts Scrooge to shame (In My opinion)

    I am going to try and get the whole deposit back BUT I am not hopeful as it is the agents they have want exit fees taking out of it already and then I have a feeling the LL will try and find something wrong ( whether or not I have done it does not matter) with the house to withold the deposit (even with the photos and updated inventory)
    Originally posted by Keto Plastics


    Exit fees when you are being forced to leave? Cant see that standing up
    • tlc678910
    • By tlc678910 5th Jan 18, 7:32 PM
    • 500 Posts
    • 889 Thanks
    tlc678910
    I wonder if there is any mileage in taking your landlord to small claims court to recoup some of the kitchen cost on the grounds he broke a contract by not honouring the 'long' tenancy afterwards. Is there any paper trail or text messages to evidence what you agreed between you?
    Tlc
    • G_M
    • By G_M 5th Jan 18, 11:22 PM
    • 42,748 Posts
    • 49,964 Thanks
    G_M
    I wonder if there is any mileage in taking your landlord to small claims court to recoup some of the kitchen cost on the grounds he broke a contract by not honouring the 'long' tenancy afterwards. Is there any paper trail or text messages to evidence what you agreed between you?
    Tlc
    Originally posted by tlc678910
    This is clutching at straws.

    The tenaancy had a fixed term.
    It then became monthly periodic.

    Trying to claim there was a 'long' tenancy (whatever that means) is pointless. The law makes clear how much security a tenant has based on the type of tenancy (as above).
    • pinkshoes
    • By pinkshoes 6th Jan 18, 10:16 AM
    • 15,464 Posts
    • 21,149 Thanks
    pinkshoes
    I would certainly be asking the landlord if he would like to buy the new kitchen that you installed for £XXXX or would he like the old one putting back in.
    Should've = Should HAVE (not 'of')
    Would've = Would HAVE (not 'of')

    No, I am not perfect, but yes I do judge people on their use of basic English language. If you didn't know the above, then learn it! (If English is your second language, then you are forgiven!)
    • Keto Plastics
    • By Keto Plastics 6th Jan 18, 12:34 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    Keto Plastics
    Anyone know what form the S21 should be on ?

    Received a Form 6 A today (6th January) is that the correct one ?

    Stating that in two months from yesterday's date (the 5th January) they will be turning up at the house for the keys and final inspection at a set time on the 5th of March
    Keto-Plastics
    • m0bov
    • By m0bov 6th Jan 18, 12:38 PM
    • 1,178 Posts
    • 793 Thanks
    m0bov
    No one will turn up for keys, if they do call the Police. They need to go to court to get possession. Can you scan in the letter and blank out personnel details. I very much doubt they have stated that.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 6th Jan 18, 12:39 PM
    • 42,748 Posts
    • 49,964 Thanks
    G_M
    Anyone know what form the S21 should be on ?

    Received a Form 6 A today (6th January) is that the correct one ?

    Stating that in two months from yesterday's date (the 5th January) they will be turning up at the house for the keys and final inspection at a set time on the 5th of March
    Originally posted by Keto Plastics
    What date did the tenancy start?

    See my earlier link on validity of S21 Notices.

    And/or read this post and see the links to example S21 Notices at the end:
    * Ending/renewing an AST: what happens when a fixed term ends? How can a LL or tenant end a tenancy? What is a periodic tenancy?



    If you only received it today (6/1/18) then 5/3/18 is less than 2 months. How did you receive it? Post? Date of posting? 1st or 2nd class?
    Last edited by G_M; 06-01-2018 at 12:41 PM.
    • Keto Plastics
    • By Keto Plastics 6th Jan 18, 1:07 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    Keto Plastics
    No one will turn up for keys, if they do call the Police. They need to go to court to get possession. Can you scan in the letter and blank out personnel details. I very much doubt they have stated that.
    Originally posted by m0bov
    I have taken a pic of the main body of the letter and covered up any details they have typed into it (names / numbers)
    Cannot fathom out how to upload to this site tho

    You will not doubt it when You see it with Your own two eyes, guaranteed
    I am not in the habit of exaggerating or whatever
    Keto-Plastics
    • Slithery
    • By Slithery 6th Jan 18, 1:13 PM
    • 483 Posts
    • 739 Thanks
    Slithery
    Upload to a site such as imgur.com (just click on 'New post') and then post the link here.

    If you don't have permission to post links yet just throw a few spaces in the URL to obfuscate it and one of us will sort it out.
    Last edited by Slithery; 06-01-2018 at 1:15 PM.
    • Keto Plastics
    • By Keto Plastics 6th Jan 18, 1:17 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    Keto Plastics
    What date did the tenancy start?

    See my earlier link on validity of S21 Notices.

    And/or read this post and see the links to example S21 Notices at the end:
    * Ending/renewing an AST: what happens when a fixed term ends? How can a LL or tenant end a tenancy? What is a periodic tenancy?



    If you only received it today (6/1/18) then 5/3/18 is less than 2 months. How did you receive it? Post? Date of posting? 1st or 2nd class?
    Originally posted by G_M
    Thank You for that S21 Validity checker has been a big help, and according to that, the notice is invalid that was for other reasons I don't want to post in public before they sent the S21 today

    The S21 being received today also makes the S21 Invalid as it is less than two months notice
    They seem to be digging a deeper hole

    Received by post today (6th January) I assume it is first class as it was signed and posted yesterday
    Date of posting which is clearly visible on the envelope is 05/01/18

    They did inform Me they was sending the S21 / paperwork as stated in the original post, and that is the part I am uncertain of, whether that covers them for sending the notice out a day too late

    From what I know it should not be the case as it should be done in writing not in a phone call as they have done
    Keto-Plastics
    • pinkshoes
    • By pinkshoes 6th Jan 18, 1:19 PM
    • 15,464 Posts
    • 21,149 Thanks
    pinkshoes
    If you haven't already done so, this would be a good time to change the locks.

    Keep the old locks to replace once you leave.

    They are not allowed to turn up and just collect the keys, so ignore that bit.

    Once you have posted the S21 you have received, then we can establish if it is valid or not. If it isn't, say nothing, and the two months starts all over again from whenever they realise.
    Should've = Should HAVE (not 'of')
    Would've = Would HAVE (not 'of')

    No, I am not perfect, but yes I do judge people on their use of basic English language. If you didn't know the above, then learn it! (If English is your second language, then you are forgiven!)
    • Keto Plastics
    • By Keto Plastics 6th Jan 18, 1:21 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    Keto Plastics
    Keto-Plastics
    • theartfullodger
    • By theartfullodger 6th Jan 18, 1:33 PM
    • 9,230 Posts
    • 12,244 Thanks
    theartfullodger
    Ignore notice for the moment & don't tell landlord he's got an invalid notice.

    As soon as he knows notice is invalid he can issue a new, valid, one. Wait & seewhat it does - if it gets to court challenge case on basis of invalidity..

    Even if notice is valid if you dig your heels it will take 40+ weeks on average to evict you see...
    https://forums.landlordzone.co.uk/forum/residential-letting-questions/77351-time-to-repossess-statistics


    (One option you/owner may consider - I make no comment on morality...). Perhaps old/new owner might be prepared to bribe you to move early. Were it me I'd want £5k+

    Artful: Landlord
    • Keto Plastics
    • By Keto Plastics 6th Jan 18, 1:46 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    Keto Plastics
    Ignore notice for the moment & don't tell landlord he's got an invalid notice.

    As soon as he knows notice is invalid he can issue a new, valid, one. Wait & seewhat it does - if it gets to court challenge case on basis of invalidity..

    Even if notice is valid if you dig your heels it will take 40+ weeks on average to evict you see...
    https://forums.landlordzone.co.uk/forum/residential-letting-questions/77351-time-to-repossess-statistics

    (One option you/owner may consider - I make no comment on morality...). Perhaps old/new owner might be prepared to bribe you to move early. Were it me I'd want £5k+

    Artful: Landlord
    Originally posted by theartfullodger
    Thanks I have NO intention of letting them know the notice is invalid they will find that out on the 5th March when they knock on the door or ring the bell

    If the old owner / LL did try to bribe Me to move early that would be good in a lot of ways but Me being stubborn I would most likely decline the offer due to the fact of how they have gone about doing what they have done and also due to the threatening behavior when they came out to the house and the bully tactics they have used and also due to the fact that they have basically used Me to sell the house (replacing kitchen and doing a couple of other minor things)

    The new owner is more than welcome to make an offer if they want but I cannot see that happening and I am unsure if I would accept or not, all depends on the offer and how I feel at the time
    Keto-Plastics
    • theartfullodger
    • By theartfullodger 6th Jan 18, 1:53 PM
    • 9,230 Posts
    • 12,244 Thanks
    theartfullodger
    Any silly/bullying/harassing behaviour make a log, collect evidence.

    Landlords can & have gone to jail for harassment (& illegal eviction) - both criminal offences.

    However new owner may have been told he's getting it on dd/mm with vacant possession and may thus be understandably v upset when he finds out there's an issue
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 6th Jan 18, 1:56 PM
    • 16,292 Posts
    • 40,571 Thanks
    FBaby
    So what's your plan for the future? You'll be there for a few more months and then what? Of course, you haven't considered for a second that maybe, just maybe, your LL is selling because they have found themselves in a very bad situation and had no choice. Who cares though right? Not your problem.
    • Keto Plastics
    • By Keto Plastics 6th Jan 18, 2:08 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    Keto Plastics
    So what's your plan for the future? You'll be there for a few more months and then what? Of course, you haven't considered for a second that maybe, just maybe, your LL is selling because they have found themselves in a very bad situation and had no choice. Who cares though right? Not your problem.
    Originally posted by FBaby
    Yes I will be here for a few more months
    And yes I have considered various things, one of those being the situation of the landlord
    Due to the LL's decisions and actions is one of the reasons I am doing what I am

    The LL and their agents are acting Illegally while trying to use bully tactics (But You do not care about that do You ? )
    IF the LL came to Me and treated Me with respect instead of trying to bully and threatening Me then My actions now might have been different

    LL has tried selling the house before BUT NO ONE wanted it for the price he was asking because of the condition of it (and it was very bad)
    But now that I have fixed the place up and after he knows that He decided to place it back on the market BECAUSE I fixed it up with a new kitchen and so on (You don't care about that also do You ? )
    Keto-Plastics
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