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    • Keto Plastics
    • By Keto Plastics 5th Jan 18, 11:15 AM
    • 38Posts
    • 9Thanks
    Keto Plastics
    Landlord selling / sold house need some legal advice
    • #1
    • 5th Jan 18, 11:15 AM
    Landlord selling / sold house need some legal advice 5th Jan 18 at 11:15 AM
    Hi All

    Need some advice as been informed today via phone call that the Landlord has sold the house and wants Me to move out in two months time because the new owners want possession (the estate agent said they are sending out the paperwork tomorrow, section 21 I assume)

    What I need to know is what My legal rights are under the circumstances
    Keto-Plastics
Page 2
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 5th Jan 18, 4:25 PM
    • 1,797 Posts
    • 1,632 Thanks
    Comms69
    The LL owns the house and is selling it so it needs to be vacant.

    He is serving the correct notice period for a S21 termination.

    Start looking for somewhere else NOW.

    Anyone suggesting you don't move out is suggesting you become a criminal. No wonder landlords get a bad name if people regularly advise tenants to ignore the law and become squatters.
    Originally posted by ProDave


    How about you actually find out what the law says before commenting? It's not difficult.
    • ProDave
    • By ProDave 5th Jan 18, 4:40 PM
    • 522 Posts
    • 592 Thanks
    ProDave
    How about you actually find out what the law says before commenting? It's not difficult.
    Originally posted by Comms69
    The OP entered a 6 month short assured tenancy knowing that after the 6 months it became a rolling contract with 2 month notice to vacate.

    All you are suggesting is he looks for a loophole to bypass or delay that. At best it is un ethical because he AGREED to the contract with 2 month notice, so he should now abide by it.

    Why do you think it is right that he should not move out and seek ways to delay it like seeking an eviction order?

    Surely he will sooner or later want to rent another place, and will want a reference. Refusing to move out and waiting for a court eviction order will not get him a good reference and will make it hard to find another tenancy, and could end up with the OP homeless so that is very bad advice.

    I would not let to a tenant who I knew had previously refused to vacate.
    Last edited by ProDave; 05-01-2018 at 4:42 PM.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 5th Jan 18, 4:43 PM
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    Comms69
    The OP entered a 6 month short assured tenancy knowing that after the 6 months it became a rolling contract with 2 month notice to vacate. - nowhere does it say you have two months to vacate.

    All you are suggesting is he looks for a loophole to bypass or delay that. - not a loophole. ONLY a court or a tenant can end a tenancy, that is the law. At best it is un ethical because he AGREED to the contract with 2 month notice, so he should now abide by it. - I don't care about your ethics.

    Why do you think it is right that he should not move out and seek ways to delay it like seeking an eviction order?
    Originally posted by ProDave


    Because the law says that a tenancy exists until either the tenant gives notice and leaves, or a court gives and order and it is enforced.


    edit: you're a landlord, or is that just a 'what would you do' moment?
    • ThePants999
    • By ThePants999 5th Jan 18, 4:45 PM
    • 976 Posts
    • 1,135 Thanks
    ThePants999
    The OP entered a 6 month short assured tenancy knowing that after the 6 months it became a rolling contract with 2 month notice to vacate.

    All you are suggesting is he looks for a loophole to bypass or delay that. At best it is un ethical because he AGREED to the contract with 2 month notice, so he should now abide by it.

    Why do you think it is right that he should not move out and seek ways to delay it like seeking an eviction order?
    Originally posted by ProDave
    You have these ideas about criminal law and ethics... they're just your ideas, I'm afraid.

    The law is totally clear. The OP does not have "a rolling contract with 2 month notice to vacate". The OP has a periodic assured shorthold tenancy, and the landlord cannot end this. If the landlord wants possession of the property, the process is for them to serve notice seeking possession, then apply to court for a possession order; if all is in order, the court will then set a date at which the tenancy will end and the landlord will regain possession. That is how the process has been designed to work, and nobody here is suggesting the OP does anything other than follow it - so no criminality or unethical behaviour is being suggested.
    • ProDave
    • By ProDave 5th Jan 18, 4:46 PM
    • 522 Posts
    • 592 Thanks
    ProDave
    Because the law says that a tenancy exists until either the tenant gives notice and leaves, or a court gives and order and it is enforced.
    Originally posted by Comms69
    Perhaps it is different here in Scotland. A tenancy exists until either the landlord gives 2 months notice, or the tenant gives 1 months notice.

    Even under the new rules here that give the tenant more rights, the LL wanting possession to sell, or to occupy himself is still a valid reason to serve 2 months notice.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 5th Jan 18, 4:48 PM
    • 1,797 Posts
    • 1,632 Thanks
    Comms69
    Perhaps it is different here in Scotland. A tenancy exists until either the landlord gives 2 months notice, or the tenant gives 1 months notice.

    Even under the new rules here that give the tenant more rights, the LL wanting possession to sell, or to occupy himself is still a valid reason to serve 2 months notice.
    Originally posted by ProDave

    No it's the same. NOWHERE IN THE UK can a landlord end a tenancy - does that help?
    • ThePants999
    • By ThePants999 5th Jan 18, 4:51 PM
    • 976 Posts
    • 1,135 Thanks
    ThePants999
    Perhaps it is different here in Scotland. A tenancy exists until either the landlord gives 2 months notice, or the tenant gives 1 months notice.

    Even under the new rules here that give the tenant more rights, the LL wanting possession to sell, or to occupy himself is still a valid reason to serve 2 months notice.
    Originally posted by ProDave
    No, it's not significantly different in Scotland. In fact, in Scotland, the "notice to quit" isn't even valid unless it makes clear to the tenant that they don't have to leave until a court tells them to!!
    • studentguy
    • By studentguy 5th Jan 18, 5:00 PM
    • 89 Posts
    • 36 Thanks
    studentguy
    All you are suggesting is he looks for a loophole to bypass or delay that. At best it is un ethical because he AGREED to the contract with 2 month notice, so he should now abide by it.
    Originally posted by ProDave
    I would argue it's much more unethical to give a tenant a shoddy kitchen with rats, enter into an agreement with the tenant that they can replace the kitchen, and then a few months later sell the house from under them profiting from the kitchen the tenant fitted without reimbursement. Illegal no. Unethical yes.
    Despite my name, I'm not a student any more
    • Keto Plastics
    • By Keto Plastics 5th Jan 18, 5:00 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    Keto Plastics
    The OP entered a 6 month short assured tenancy knowing that after the 6 months it became a rolling contract with 2 month notice to vacate.

    All you are suggesting is he looks for a loophole to bypass or delay that. At best it is un ethical because he AGREED to the contract with 2 month notice, so he should now abide by it.

    Why do you think it is right that he should not move out and seek ways to delay it like seeking an eviction order?
    Originally posted by ProDave
    Contract work's BOTH way's two people and / or entities/parties agree to the contract it takes BOTH parties to keep to it / abide by it not just the one party/entity (in this case Myself)
    Landlord needs to abide by the contract also

    And I know for a FACT the LL has NOT abided by the contract and according to the S21 Checklist tool that was kindly provided by G_M (Thanks for that btw G_M is appreciated) the S21 they will serve will be INVALID (will not say why that is the case in public because do not know who is watching / reading)
    Keto-Plastics
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 5th Jan 18, 5:03 PM
    • 1,797 Posts
    • 1,632 Thanks
    Comms69
    Contract work's BOTH way's two people and / or entities/parties agree to the contract it takes BOTH parties to keep to it / abide by it not just the one party/entity (in this case Myself)
    Landlord needs to abide by the contract also

    And I know for a FACT the LL has NOT abided by the contract and according to the S21 Checklist tool that was kindly provided by G_M (Thanks for that btw G_M is appreciated) the S21 they will serve will be INVALID (will not say why that is the case in public because do not know who is watching / reading)
    Originally posted by Keto Plastics
    You may as well, there's only so many reasons why.


    It's probably better for someone here to confirm you're right, than for you to think you're right and be wrong.
    • steampowered
    • By steampowered 5th Jan 18, 5:07 PM
    • 2,066 Posts
    • 1,940 Thanks
    steampowered
    The landlord doesn't have to reimburse you for upgrading the kitchen, but you might as well ask. Its a reasonable request.

    It would also be a good idea to approach the landlord/agent and explain that you need the deposit back in order to pay for a deposit on a new property.

    Explain that you would need a new deposit to move for somewhere else, as you have just upgrade the kitchen, and that you will not be able to move out on the date requested if you cannot afford to do so.

    You could suggest that the landlord agrees to get the deposit released shortly before the end of the tenancy, or that he reimburses you for the cost of upgrading to the kitchen.

    Going forwards, you should assess your financial circumstances. Everyone above the age of 21 or so should have a buffer for situations like this. Letting yourself be in a situation where you couldn't afford a month's deposit is most unwise.
    • Keto Plastics
    • By Keto Plastics 5th Jan 18, 5:08 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    Keto Plastics
    You may as well, there's only so many reasons why.


    It's probably better for someone here to confirm you're right, than for you to think you're right and be wrong.
    Originally posted by Comms69

    Will happily say what it is in PM if You want to know what it is
    Best option IMO as I don't want to give the LL or anyone associated with them (IF They are watching / reading) a heads up
    Keto-Plastics
    • Keto Plastics
    • By Keto Plastics 5th Jan 18, 5:15 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    Keto Plastics
    The landlord doesn't have to reimburse you for upgrading the kitchen, but you might as well ask. Its a reasonable request.

    It would also be a good idea to approach the landlord/agent and explain that you need the deposit back in order to pay for a deposit on a new property.

    Explain that you would need a new deposit to move for somewhere else, as you have just upgrade the kitchen, and that you will not be able to move out on the date requested if you cannot afford to do so.

    You could suggest that the landlord agrees to get the deposit released shortly before the end of the tenancy, or that he reimburses you for the cost of upgrading to the kitchen.

    Going forwards, you should assess your financial circumstances. Everyone above the age of 21 or so should have a buffer for situations like this. Letting yourself be in a situation where you couldn't afford a month's deposit is most unwise.
    Originally posted by steampowered
    Sometimes things happen in Life that cannot be controlled it has its ups and downs as We all know
    Ideally Yes having a buffer would of been ideal and is wise to do so but sometimes Life does not always go the way We plan and certain things happen that no one can foresee or plan for
    Keto-Plastics
    • Keto Plastics
    • By Keto Plastics 5th Jan 18, 5:18 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    Keto Plastics
    No, it's not significantly different in Scotland. In fact, in Scotland, the "notice to quit" isn't even valid unless it makes clear to the tenant that they don't have to leave until a court tells them to!!
    Originally posted by ThePants999
    By the way they are acting it is like it is set in stone that I have to move

    Already know the date and time that they will be turning up at the property at the end of the notice period on the S21
    Keto-Plastics
    • Thrugelmir
    • By Thrugelmir 5th Jan 18, 5:21 PM
    • 56,715 Posts
    • 50,084 Thanks
    Thrugelmir
    Sometimes things happen in Life that cannot be controlled it has its ups and downs as We all know
    Ideally Yes having a buffer would of been ideal and is wise to do so but sometimes Life does not always go the way We plan and certain things happen that no one can foresee or plan for
    Originally posted by Keto Plastics
    As you say contracts work 2 ways however the same applies to relationships. If you raise the temperature expect others to respond accordingly. You'll reap what you sow. Before setting out on an obstructive path be sure that you can achieve your ultimate goal. Otherwise the stress and effort might all be in vain.
    “Opportunities come infrequently. When it rains gold, put out the bucket, not the thimble”
    ― Warren Buffett
    • theartfullodger
    • By theartfullodger 5th Jan 18, 5:21 PM
    • 9,233 Posts
    • 12,253 Thanks
    theartfullodger
    Perhaps it is different here in Scotland. A tenancy exists until either the landlord gives 2 months notice, or the tenant gives 1 months notice.

    Even under the new rules here that give the tenant more rights, the LL wanting possession to sell, or to occupy himself is still a valid reason to serve 2 months notice.
    Originally posted by ProDave
    You simply don't understand , do you!

    If you are a Scottish landlord strongly suggest you join SaL & do the free LaS courses for your own sake but, more importantly, the sake of your paying customers...

    Artful, Landlord in Scotland
    Last edited by theartfullodger; 05-01-2018 at 5:36 PM.
    • Cakeguts
    • By Cakeguts 5th Jan 18, 5:27 PM
    • 3,524 Posts
    • 4,875 Thanks
    Cakeguts
    Does the tenancy agreement say that you have to leave the house in the same condition as it was when you moved in? If so you can take the kitchen out and replace it with a broken one. You can then sell your nice kitchen on ebay or take it with you. Or alternatively you can take out the bits of kitchen you can sell and leave a broken one that you got when you moved in.

    You don't have to move in two months so if the landlord is stupid you will have plenty of time to decide what to do to the kitchen.
    • Keto Plastics
    • By Keto Plastics 5th Jan 18, 5:35 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    Keto Plastics
    As you say contracts work 2 ways however the same applies to relationships. If you raise the temperature expect others to respond accordingly. You'll reap what you sow. Before setting out on an obstructive path be sure that you can achieve your ultimate goal. Otherwise the stress and effort might all be in vain.
    Originally posted by Thrugelmir
    It is true that " What goes around comes back around" I am a firm believer in that, seen it happen more than once over the years

    My actions / re-actions are based on the actions of the LL and is not something I wanted to sow
    LL's actions, so far was threatening Me with all sorts of various stuff (last time I seen them in person)
    I made it Loud and Clear NOT to threaten Me ( Within the Law of course) also had a witness that He did not spot sitting there until after the they had threatened Me

    Maybe it is their turn to reap what they have sowed... Who know's
    Keto-Plastics
    • Keto Plastics
    • By Keto Plastics 5th Jan 18, 5:40 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    Keto Plastics
    Does the tenancy agreement say that you have to leave the house in the same condition as it was when you moved in? If so you can take the kitchen out and replace it with a broken one. You can then sell your nice kitchen on ebay or take it with you. Or alternatively you can take out the bits of kitchen you can sell and leave a broken one that you got when you moved in.

    You don't have to move in two months so if the landlord is stupid you will have plenty of time to decide what to do to the kitchen.
    Originally posted by Cakeguts
    As far as I know yes it does
    IF I was to do that and leave the house in the condition it was in when I moved in then guaranteed they would withold the deposit, it was disgusting (and that is nothing to do with the cupboards, house full stop)
    Keto-Plastics
    • Slithery
    • By Slithery 5th Jan 18, 5:57 PM
    • 497 Posts
    • 765 Thanks
    Slithery
    You mean they would try and withhold the deposit.

    It's not up to them.
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