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  • FIRST POST
    • systematic1
    • By systematic1 5th Jan 18, 8:33 AM
    • 11Posts
    • 3Thanks
    systematic1
    600 Euro fine in lanzarote!!! anyone able to advise??
    • #1
    • 5th Jan 18, 8:33 AM
    600 Euro fine in lanzarote!!! anyone able to advise?? 5th Jan 18 at 8:33 AM
    Hello all,
    Apologies for the new thread but this is not a standard parking fine, in fact it's not exactly a parking issue at all...

    During a surfing holiday in Lanzarote back in may I parked at a beach within the National Park. It's a popular place, beach goers park along either side of a narrow road, and we did the same. Yesterday I received a 17 page dossier (in Spanish) accusing me of raping the environment.

    Its from Guardia Civil, Medioambiente. Essentially like the environment agency here but part of the police force. They produced photo's of my hire car parked with 2 wheels on the sand. This constitutes an infingement of their environmental laws and carries a fine of between 600 & 6000 euros, my fine being at the former end of the scale.

    If this was in the UK I'd know how to fight it, there was zero signage for example. But it's not in the Uk.

    So should I.....Pay up (20% reduction), contest (losing 20% reduction and probably requiring a lawyer and a trip to lanzarote) or ingnore and never set foot on Spanish soil again????

    From what I can translate my letter contains: an initial charge from Guardia Civil to the hire company, a document naming me as the driver from the hire company, and minutes from court proceedings decreeing that I am liable.

    It's definitely genuine before anyone suggests otherwise, but scams are harder to ignore when they are run by the government....

    Any experts on Spanish law out there?!?!?!
Page 1
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 5th Jan 18, 8:54 AM
    • 7,641 Posts
    • 6,723 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #2
    • 5th Jan 18, 8:54 AM
    • #2
    • 5th Jan 18, 8:54 AM
    On several occasions, when entering Spain, the border has not been manned. Why not post this on here


    http://britishexpats.com/forum/spain-75/
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • unforeseen
    • By unforeseen 5th Jan 18, 8:59 AM
    • 2,222 Posts
    • 2,822 Thanks
    unforeseen
    • #3
    • 5th Jan 18, 8:59 AM
    • #3
    • 5th Jan 18, 8:59 AM
    What have Spanish borders to do with it since this is an island off the coast of W Africa
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 5th Jan 18, 9:01 AM
    • 7,641 Posts
    • 6,723 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #4
    • 5th Jan 18, 9:01 AM
    • #4
    • 5th Jan 18, 9:01 AM
    What have Spanish borders to do with it since this is an island off the coast of W Africa
    Originally posted by unforeseen


    Read this


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lanzarote
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • unforeseen
    • By unforeseen 5th Jan 18, 9:06 AM
    • 2,222 Posts
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    unforeseen
    • #5
    • 5th Jan 18, 9:06 AM
    • #5
    • 5th Jan 18, 9:06 AM
    Forget the idea that this is a parking fine. You have been fined for transgressing their environmental laws.

    You don't know how to fight this in the UK. The same rule would Apply. Ignorance of the rules is no defence.

    This is not like a foreign debt collection attempt as it is a fine that has been awarded by a court. I don't know whether they will chase it but if not paid then further visits to Spain may be compromised.
    • unforeseen
    • By unforeseen 5th Jan 18, 9:10 AM
    • 2,222 Posts
    • 2,822 Thanks
    unforeseen
    • #6
    • 5th Jan 18, 9:10 AM
    • #6
    • 5th Jan 18, 9:10 AM
    I realise it belongs to Spain but fail to understand about borders being unmanned. They don't need to be. That is the beauty of electronic records of movements being passed between countries. Outstanding fines could automatically be flagged. They can then man the border waiting for that person.
    • systematic1
    • By systematic1 5th Jan 18, 9:10 AM
    • 11 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    systematic1
    • #7
    • 5th Jan 18, 9:10 AM
    Thanks
    • #7
    • 5th Jan 18, 9:10 AM
    Thanks, Yes I wonder if it may just get forgotten about during siesta time but don't really want it hanging over me if I want to visit Spanish territory again.
    I've posted on the expat site, thanks very much for that tip.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 5th Jan 18, 9:11 AM
    • 7,641 Posts
    • 6,723 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #8
    • 5th Jan 18, 9:11 AM
    • #8
    • 5th Jan 18, 9:11 AM
    if not paid then further visits to Spain may be compromised.


    The borders with France and Portugal are unmanned.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 5th Jan 18, 9:17 AM
    • 16,344 Posts
    • 25,433 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #9
    • 5th Jan 18, 9:17 AM
    • #9
    • 5th Jan 18, 9:17 AM
    I’ve said this before - the more we deal with court cases, the more people will believe we are a ‘legal eagle’ forum and increasingly post issues that have nothing to do with private parking. We’ve had two such in the past couple of days.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • systematic1
    • By systematic1 5th Jan 18, 9:23 AM
    • 11 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    systematic1
    Thanks Unforseen
    Yes it's really nothing to do with parking i suppose, despite my parking being the issue.

    I'm not sure how well the electronic systems are implimented, but my gut feeling is its unwise to ignore it. They did have my name and address slightly misspelled so that might m ake me difficult to flag - i cant recall if i gave the hire company my passport number but certainly my driving liscense details will be on the system.

    I received some local advice saying as long as I don't use the same hire company again I have nothing to worry about, but that seems unlikely. Just depends how well organised it all is.

    If it was a hundred euros it would be paid already, but I don't have a spare 600 sitting around, i'll need to borrow.

    If I respond and try to fight it then they have me pinned down, and I suspect I would lose without spending big money on a lawyer.

    There was at least another hundred cars parked identically to me, I don't suppose they will all be paying up. Though I'm quite sure that only the foreign and hire vehicles will have been stung.
    • systematic1
    • By systematic1 5th Jan 18, 9:26 AM
    • 11 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    systematic1
    A fair point The Deep, but the reality is i'm likely to want to fly into spain at some point
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 5th Jan 18, 9:29 AM
    • 16,344 Posts
    • 25,433 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    They did have my name and address slightly misspelled so that might m ake me difficult to flag - i cant recall if i gave the hire company my passport number but certainly my driving liscense details will be on the system.
    What about your credit card details? If they’ve got those, and there’s a clause in your hire agreement that if the hire company is pursued in your absence, they have the right to charge your card (and add a tasty admin fee in the process), then you might have already ‘paid’ this!
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • systematic1
    • By systematic1 5th Jan 18, 9:30 AM
    • 11 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    systematic1
    UMKOMMASS - my apologies. I suppose this doesn't belong here.
    How about I delete the thread in 24hrs? Just incase aspanish lawyer comes accross it in the interim!!
    • systematic1
    • By systematic1 5th Jan 18, 9:31 AM
    • 11 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    systematic1
    credit card
    Damn good point there...I hadn't considered that.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 5th Jan 18, 9:33 AM
    • 16,344 Posts
    • 25,433 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    UMKOMMASS - my apologies. I suppose this doesn't belong here.
    How about I delete the thread in 24hrs? Just incase aspanish lawyer comes accross it in the interim!!
    Originally posted by systematic1
    Itís up here now, and youíre getting some helpful responses, so leave it (in any case, other than scrubbing each of your own inputs, one by one, you canít delete the thread).

    When people have run out of ideas, the thread will take its own course down the thread list.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 5th Jan 18, 9:35 AM
    • 7,641 Posts
    • 6,723 Thanks
    The Deep
    The reference I gave you is only one of many, there are plenty more out there.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • unforeseen
    • By unforeseen 5th Jan 18, 9:37 AM
    • 2,222 Posts
    • 2,822 Thanks
    unforeseen
    if not paid then further visits to Spain may be compromised.


    The borders with France and Portugal are unmanned.
    Originally posted by The Deep
    Bit of a bind to have to fly to Bordeaux or Lisbon when going to Madrid or Malaga.

    Not quite sure how you get around it for going to the Canaries though
    • StaffsSW
    • By StaffsSW 5th Jan 18, 11:44 AM
    • 5,395 Posts
    • 5,439 Thanks
    StaffsSW
    Iíve said this before - the more we deal with court cases, the more people will believe we are a Ďlegal eagleí forum and increasingly post issues that have nothing to do with private parking. Weíve had two such in the past couple of days.
    Originally posted by Umkomaas
    To be fair, the sub-forum is titled "The Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board", and is part of the general Motoring section. The forum description reads "If you've had a fine or worse and want to discuss it here's the place to do it".

    It should be no surprise that people come here with more than just private parking issues.
    <--- Nothing to see here - move along --->
    • Grimble
    • By Grimble 5th Jan 18, 11:48 AM
    • 394 Posts
    • 476 Thanks
    Grimble
    Change your passport before going to Spain again if you have not paid this.
    • Guys Dad
    • By Guys Dad 5th Jan 18, 12:57 PM
    • 10,265 Posts
    • 9,412 Thanks
    Guys Dad
    Damn good point there...I hadn't considered that.
    Originally posted by systematic1
    As this is a non-parking or traffic violation, would the hire company t&c allow them to charge your card? Check their t&c.
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