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  • FIRST POST
    • tenantwithissue
    • By tenantwithissue 4th Jan 18, 4:13 PM
    • 13Posts
    • 3Thanks
    tenantwithissue
    Tenant Deposit Protected late
    • #1
    • 4th Jan 18, 4:13 PM
    Tenant Deposit Protected late 4th Jan 18 at 4:13 PM
    All,

    I wanted some guidance on an issue we are facing.

    We moved into a rented property in England on 2nd December 2016, we paid our deposit on 1st December 2016 to an agency who was doing the search for a tenant on behalf of the Landlord. Once the agent had taken all payments and arranged the tenancy agreement, the property was handed over and managed by the landlord directly. We paid everything up to date and left the property in spotless condition.

    I chased the agency on 7th January 2017 to check whether our deposit was protected as we did not have any information, the agent said it was with the Landlord and to check with him which I did via SMS (therefore I do not have a record of this communication).

    The landlord proceeded to lodge it with a Tenancy Deposit Protection scheme on 12th January 2017 (42 days after we paid the deposit and 9 days after LL states they got it from the agency), on the tenancy protection scheme the LL states they got the deposit from the agency on 3rd January 2017 (33 days after deposit paid).

    However, the landlord still did not email us the prescribed information and certificate until 12th Febuary 2017 (73 days after we paid deposit, and 40 days after LL got deposit from agent).

    Under the Section 213 of the Housing Act 2004, do we have a case to claim 1-3x the deposit from the landlord?

    The reason I am questioning this, is because we did chase the landlord and agent a number of times, however, those communicaitons via SMS are lost.

    Regards,
    Phillip
Page 1
    • tykesi
    • By tykesi 4th Jan 18, 4:22 PM
    • 1,924 Posts
    • 2,672 Thanks
    tykesi
    • #2
    • 4th Jan 18, 4:22 PM
    • #2
    • 4th Jan 18, 4:22 PM
    So basically you're looking to milk the situation for all it is worth?

    Yes, it should have been protected earlier but have you had any material loss or inconvenience as a direct result, your post doesn't say?
    2018 in 2018 - 416.84

    2017 in 2017 - 7097.88

    2016 in 2016 - 3087.89
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 4th Jan 18, 4:23 PM
    • 1,797 Posts
    • 1,628 Thanks
    Comms69
    • #3
    • 4th Jan 18, 4:23 PM
    • #3
    • 4th Jan 18, 4:23 PM
    Yes you have a claim.
    • deannatrois
    • By deannatrois 4th Jan 18, 4:27 PM
    • 4,988 Posts
    • 7,014 Thanks
    deannatrois
    • #4
    • 4th Jan 18, 4:27 PM
    • #4
    • 4th Jan 18, 4:27 PM
    The deposit is protected, you have the prescribed information albeit after more trouble than you should have had to go to. Why would you want to take them to court? OK 73 days for prescribed information is longer than it should have been (2 months rather than 0) but its there now. 9 days for deposit (after LL received it). Its not really incredibly excessive or caused you any damage.

    You do realise the payment will be minimal as the LL has now done what he needs to (ie. its not going to be x3).

    I would have thought you'd have more important things to do with your time to be honest (and I am an ex tenant, not a LL).
    • tenantwithissue
    • By tenantwithissue 4th Jan 18, 5:16 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    tenantwithissue
    • #5
    • 4th Jan 18, 5:16 PM
    • #5
    • 4th Jan 18, 5:16 PM
    So basically you're looking to milk the situation for all it is worth?

    Yes, it should have been protected earlier but have you had any material loss or inconvenience as a direct result, your post doesn't say?
    Originally posted by tykesi
    Not at all, I am a landlord myself and I made sure I protected my tenants money ASAP and that they had the relevant information.

    The protection is there for a reason, and the landlord has blantantly ignored the requirements with no valid reason for doing so. I shouldn't have to chase the landlord for the protection of my money. It isn't his, unless I have not kept to the terms of our agreement (then he can claim some of the money as damage).
    • tenantwithissue
    • By tenantwithissue 4th Jan 18, 5:20 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    tenantwithissue
    • #6
    • 4th Jan 18, 5:20 PM
    • #6
    • 4th Jan 18, 5:20 PM
    The deposit is protected, you have the prescribed information albeit after more trouble than you should have had to go to. Why would you want to take them to court? OK 73 days for prescribed information is longer than it should have been (2 months rather than 0) but its there now. 9 days for deposit (after LL received it). Its not really incredibly excessive or caused you any damage.

    You do realise the payment will be minimal as the LL has now done what he needs to (ie. its not going to be x3).

    I would have thought you'd have more important things to do with your time to be honest (and I am an ex tenant, not a LL).
    Originally posted by deannatrois
    1. I would take them to court for not protecting my money as they are required to do so under the law.
    2. The law states 1-3x the deposit, plus they pay the court fees.

    Why would I do it?
    The landlord didnt seem bothered when I chased him about my deposit 2 or 3 times despite him knowing the requirements. In the end of the agreement he tries to charge me unfair fees and holds part of my deposit for a further 49 days after I have checked out.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 4th Jan 18, 5:24 PM
    • 1,797 Posts
    • 1,628 Thanks
    Comms69
    • #7
    • 4th Jan 18, 5:24 PM
    • #7
    • 4th Jan 18, 5:24 PM
    1. I would take them to court for not protecting my money as they are required to do so under the law.
    2. The law states 1-3x the deposit, plus they pay the court fees.

    Why would I do it?
    The landlord didnt seem bothered when I chased him about my deposit 2 or 3 times despite him knowing the requirements. In the end of the agreement he tries to charge me unfair fees and holds part of my deposit for a further 49 days after I have checked out.
    Originally posted by tenantwithissue


    Absolutely your right, I think you'd get 1x.
    • fishpond
    • By fishpond 4th Jan 18, 5:36 PM
    • 939 Posts
    • 514 Thanks
    fishpond
    • #8
    • 4th Jan 18, 5:36 PM
    • #8
    • 4th Jan 18, 5:36 PM
    I thought April 1st had come early.
    May be the LL was in Bermuda, on holiday--paid for by the interest on your deposit.
    You have suffered no loss/hardship---have you?
    I am a LandLord, so there!
    • theartfullodger
    • By theartfullodger 4th Jan 18, 5:41 PM
    • 9,233 Posts
    • 12,253 Thanks
    theartfullodger
    • #9
    • 4th Jan 18, 5:41 PM
    • #9
    • 4th Jan 18, 5:41 PM
    Yes you have a valid claim for a penalty of between 1 & 3 times deposit. Your right to that penalty has been voted on by our elected MPs and passed, then signed into law by our own dear Queen, twice. For how to pursue it follow the excellent instructions here...
    https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/tenancy_deposits/tenancy_deposit_compensation_claims
    - sadly the usually correct Shelter describe it as "compensation": It isn't, it's a penalty.

    The law was changed to require deposit protection because previously too many landlords were holding onto deposits and not returning them, in the knowledge that most tenants wouldn't pursue them. I don't recall loads of landlords complaining that was soo unfair then.

    The law was passed twice as initially loads of landlords & their toadying associations complained the initial 14-day deadline was way too tight but the extended 30 days would be fine: And they still can't fill in a couple of simple forms & transfer some money.

    Best wishes to all, including those who disagree with me.. Artful (Landlord).
    Last edited by theartfullodger; 04-01-2018 at 5:46 PM.
    • HampshireH
    • By HampshireH 4th Jan 18, 7:01 PM
    • 354 Posts
    • 376 Thanks
    HampshireH
    When did you move out? You say you left everything spotless which implies you have indeed moved etc. How long have you waited after moving out to raise this concern (I'm interested not that it is a requirement)
    • tenantwithissue
    • By tenantwithissue 4th Jan 18, 7:20 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    tenantwithissue
    I thought April 1st had come early.
    May be the LL was in Bermuda, on holiday--paid for by the interest on your deposit.
    You have suffered no loss/hardship---have you?
    Originally posted by fishpond
    He must have thought it was his money, when it isn't - it's my money and his obligation was to protect it within 30 days - he didn't do his obligation. He wouldn't have been happy if I took that length of time to pay my rent - right?
    • theartfullodger
    • By theartfullodger 4th Jan 18, 7:21 PM
    • 9,233 Posts
    • 12,253 Thanks
    theartfullodger
    Have you or have you not taken the 1st step as recommended by Mssrs Shelter, please?
    • tenantwithissue
    • By tenantwithissue 4th Jan 18, 7:32 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    tenantwithissue
    Yes you have a valid claim for a penalty of between 1 & 3 times deposit. Your right to that penalty has been voted on by our elected MPs and passed, then signed into law by our own dear Queen, twice. For how to pursue it follow the excellent instructions here...
    --
    - sadly the usually correct Shelter describe it as "compensation": It isn't, it's a penalty.

    The law was changed to require deposit protection because previously too many landlords were holding onto deposits and not returning them, in the knowledge that most tenants wouldn't pursue them. I don't recall loads of landlords complaining that was soo unfair then.

    The law was passed twice as initially loads of landlords & their toadying associations complained the initial 14-day deadline was way too tight but the extended 30 days would be fine: And they still can't fill in a couple of simple forms & transfer some money.

    Best wishes to all, including those who disagree with me.. Artful (Landlord).
    Originally posted by theartfullodger
    Hi there,

    Thank you for the helpful reply. I guess my only question is this as follows:

    The landlord only got the money from the agent (he claims) on the 3rd January 2017. Can he say that he protected it within 30 days of him receiving it?

    Aka. I paid the agent, the agent held it for 33 days, then passed it to the landlord and the L deposited within 30 days of him recieving it.

    None-the-less he still didn't provide me with the required information until February.
    • theartfullodger
    • By theartfullodger 4th Jan 18, 7:34 PM
    • 9,233 Posts
    • 12,253 Thanks
    theartfullodger
    The agent is the landlord: It's the date you paid agent that matters: Start Shelter's course of action (i'm begging now, bemused as to why you haven't already...).

    Send any letters etc to BOTH landlord & agent, keep copies.
    • tenantwithissue
    • By tenantwithissue 4th Jan 18, 7:36 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    tenantwithissue
    When did you move out? You say you left everything spotless which implies you have indeed moved etc. How long have you waited after moving out to raise this concern (I'm interested not that it is a requirement)
    Originally posted by HampshireH
    We moved out after one year. It is the irritation with the issue with the LL holding part of our deposit which has cuased me to look into this. (aka its not the first time the LL has messed around with my deposit)
    • Jack Johnson the acorn
    • By Jack Johnson the acorn 4th Jan 18, 8:14 PM
    • 1,262 Posts
    • 1,388 Thanks
    Jack Johnson the acorn
    We moved out after one year. It is the irritation with the issue with the LL holding part of our deposit which has cuased me to look into this. (aka its not the first time the LL has messed around with my deposit)
    Originally posted by tenantwithissue
    Absolutely understand, If I had somebody else's money and I was required to give it back immediately I would do as the law states. I think you have every right to penalise him for inconveniencing you.
    • tenantwithissue
    • By tenantwithissue 4th Jan 18, 8:34 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    tenantwithissue
    The agent is the landlord: It's the date you paid agent that matters: Start Shelter's course of action (i'm begging now, bemused as to why you haven't already...).

    Send any letters etc to BOTH landlord & agent, keep copies.
    Originally posted by theartfullodger
    I am not sure I understand, who do you think has liability. It feels like the landlord will say its the agency, and the agency will say its the Landlord.

    In the end, the agency sent it to the landlord, so my view is that this is solely with the landlord?
    • G_M
    • By G_M 4th Jan 18, 9:04 PM
    • 42,758 Posts
    • 49,979 Thanks
    G_M
    1) the relevant date is the date you paid the agent. They received it from you on behalf of the landlord. When or whether they passed itt to the lanlord is irrelevant.

    2) the law is clear - you can claim the penalty. You can claim up to 3 times the deposit. I imagine in this case the minimum penalty will be imposed (1 time the deposit) since it was registered, albeit late, and the PI was issued, albeit late.

    3) you don't say whether the depost has been returned or not. Or whether there is a dispute ongoing over end of tenancy deductions.

    4) like others, I feel you are being unecessarily vindictive. However
    a) I'm not a tenant so perhaps biased (I try not to be)
    b) we don't know the full story ie, was the LL otherwise helpfull or obstructive during the tenancy; is there a dispute over return of the deposit; is the landdlord a so-called 'professonal' LL or an old age pensioner relying on rent for his pension and with limited understanding of law (OK, still not excusable but mitigation)
    etc
    Last edited by G_M; 04-01-2018 at 11:22 PM.
    • theartfullodger
    • By theartfullodger 4th Jan 18, 10:00 PM
    • 9,233 Posts
    • 12,253 Thanks
    theartfullodger
    You can (& perhaps should ..) sue both jointly. Both have had to pay. Hopefully (for you..) one will offer a deal avoiding court matters.
    • tenantwithissue
    • By tenantwithissue 4th Jan 18, 10:47 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    tenantwithissue
    1) the relevant date is the date you paid the agent. They received it from you on behalf of the landlord. When or whether they passed itt to the lanlord is irrelevant.

    2) the law is clear - you can claim the penalty. You can claim up to 3 times the deposit. I imagine in this case the minimum penalty will be imposed (1 time the deposit) since it was registered, albeit late, and the PI was issued, albeit late.

    3) you don't say whether the depost has been returned or not. Or whether there is a dispute ongoing over end of tenancy deductions.

    4) like others, I feel you are being unecessarily vindictive. However
    a) I'm not a tenant so perhaps biased (I try not to be)
    b) we don' know the full story ie, was the LL oterwise helpfull or obstrutive during the tenancy; is there a dispute over return of the deposit; is the landdlord a so-called 'professonal' LL or an old age pensioner relying on rent for his pension and withlimited understanding of law (OK, still not excusable but mitigation)
    etc
    Originally posted by G_M
    Thanks for your response. The LL hasnt returned all the deposit and I had to chase him for it also (i.e. beyond the 10 days). He is holding part until end of month and making deductions not in the checkout report.
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