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  • FIRST POST
    • nasescoba1985
    • By nasescoba1985 18th Dec 17, 1:51 PM
    • 70Posts
    • 23Thanks
    nasescoba1985
    PCN - parking in my own space
    • #1
    • 18th Dec 17, 1:51 PM
    PCN - parking in my own space 18th Dec 17 at 1:51 PM
    Hey guys.


    Cut a long story slightly short. I own my property in a small gated apartment development. The landlord decided to implement a parking company ( CPM uk car park management ) last August because he was being petty that residents were using 2nd cars to park in visitors bays.



    Anyway, we all received our own permits including ones for our own parking space. Now I put my permit on my dashboard and on this particular occasion, I shut my door and the wind must of blew the permit off.



    I received a PCN for parking in my own bloody space as my permit wasn't on the dashboard. Anyway I sent an appeal letter basically stating this is my own space and providing them with a copy of my permit , plus I explained the reasoning why my permit fell off. I also put in my letter, if this is rejected can they provide me with a popla code.




    I just received a letter back today rejecting my appeal explaining they acknowledge my proof of permit but because I didn't display the permit properly, I need to pay the fine. They obviously have the photo evidence on the letter to. They completely ignored my request for the popla code. Obviously no way in a million years am I paying these !!!!s any sort of money to park in my own private parking space. What do I do now?


    I had a quick look at the newbies thread which looks very helpful but there is a lot of detail on it so I'm not sure if my particular case is relevant and if I can get a template from someone so I can write back to these


    Thank you
Page 7
    • drh90
    • By drh90 11th Jan 18, 9:21 AM
    • 6 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    drh90
    It didn't help that Mr. Blaney was quite uncooperative and seemed borderline obstructive towards the judge regarding the permits. And that they were merely tenants and actually had no claim of 'leasehold ownership' of the space.

    Robinson is interesting in that Judge Metcalf decided that the Management Company must provide evidence that a lease has been varied, before they can engage a Parking Company. He warned that letters regarding the need to display a permit are not sufficient evidence of a lease being varied. "A mere letter regarding permits would not, in my judgment, suffice in this regard."

    Would we assume therefore that for a letter to be considered evidence of a variation, it would need to explicitly state that they are altering the parking arrangements originally agreed in the lease, under term xyz which allows them to do so?
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 11th Jan 18, 10:09 AM
    • 1,483 Posts
    • 1,597 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    OP - if the MC has done something explicitly against the interests of the residents, that wouldbe usedul in priving your need to take over from them.
    Add to that, they are reuqired to show the full contract to you. They only work on hbehalf of you and noone else.
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 11th Jan 18, 10:47 AM
    • 1,898 Posts
    • 3,349 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    They only work on hbehalf of you and noone else.
    I think you might not have that quite right.

    The MA is there to ensure the Freeholders responsibilities with regards to the common areas which the Freeholder owns are met as part of a lease. They are also there to "manage" the leaseholders for the common good.
    Idiots please note: If you intend NOT to read the information on the Notice of Allocation and hand a simple win to the knuckle dragging ex-clampers, then don't waste people's time with questions on a claim you'll not defend.
    • nasescoba1985
    • By nasescoba1985 11th Jan 18, 5:27 PM
    • 70 Posts
    • 23 Thanks
    nasescoba1985
    UPDATE!!

    The UK CPM responded the little rats. They basically said by displaying a badge, I have agreed to a contract to them and am liable for this charge for not displaying a valid permit hahaha

    I of course responded with a load of legal jargon again about them committing an illegal act by going against my lease in which I uploaded the relevant lease details that show I have a right to park a car in my own space. I then finished it with “ I will see you in Court “



    I will not back down and I won’t pay these guys a penny:


    It will obviously go to the ISA to make a decision and of course I will probably lose but I will take them to court if need be. I went through the lease with the chairman of our residents association and nowhere in our lease does it give the management of our complex permission to change anything in the common parts or implement any type of scheme.
    • nasescoba1985
    • By nasescoba1985 11th Jan 18, 5:28 PM
    • 70 Posts
    • 23 Thanks
    nasescoba1985
    IAS ( I will get it right eventually )
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 11th Jan 18, 5:37 PM
    • 1,898 Posts
    • 3,349 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    The UK CPM responded the little rats. They basically said by displaying a badge, I have agreed to a contract to them and am liable for this charge for not displaying a valid permit hahaha
    The idea behind this approach is that they are decoupling the primacy of lease argument so you can't use it (but you can).

    They are saying that you had a brand new contract with them for "space management" and the terms of that was you owed them £100 if you failed to display. The counter argument is no meeting of minds. You were not aware that you were entering a contract and no reasonable person would ever agree to such a term.

    But .... it is an argument that the odd judge might accept.

    Best to get some sort of arrangement with the MA to get rid of UKCPM as it is clear, their introduction doesn't help anyone. And the longer they are there the more hassle they will be.

    Time to kiss and make up with the MA.
    Idiots please note: If you intend NOT to read the information on the Notice of Allocation and hand a simple win to the knuckle dragging ex-clampers, then don't waste people's time with questions on a claim you'll not defend.
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 11th Jan 18, 5:45 PM
    • 8,000 Posts
    • 8,357 Thanks
    pappa golf
    as this is a small GATED settup , perhaps an extra lock/chain to which the parking addendant will have no key , and then there are those silly little fairies that insist on placing bags over parking signs during the day , if the PPC have no income , they will move on
    • nasescoba1985
    • By nasescoba1985 11th Jan 18, 5:47 PM
    • 70 Posts
    • 23 Thanks
    nasescoba1985
    No the MA is of no help whatsoever. That boat has long sailed as we are currently in the process of taking over the management of the complex and there’s a strong possibility by March, the residents association will have taken control of management. In the meantime though, I have my own personal issue with UK CPM, which is of course the PCN in question and what we are discussing on this forum. So if I lose this appeal which I am certain I will, just ignore any letters I get from now on, until I get court papers? That correct? In the meantime, I will do research into similar court cases
    • nasescoba1985
    • By nasescoba1985 11th Jan 18, 5:51 PM
    • 70 Posts
    • 23 Thanks
    nasescoba1985
    GUYS, out of interest, if long down the line it does go to court and I lose. What is the worse possible amount I will have to pay ? I just want to get a basic understanding incase the worse happens.
    • nasescoba1985
    • By nasescoba1985 11th Jan 18, 6:00 PM
    • 70 Posts
    • 23 Thanks
    nasescoba1985
    The only worry I slightly have is, I have openly admitted to displaying the permits beforehand and admitted I displayed the permit on this particular day and it fell off my windscreen. They can just say I knew full well the consequences by displaying the badge. How could I defend this ? I did say in my defence that I was forced upon this appointment and felt I had no choice but to display the badge.
    • The Slithy Tove
    • By The Slithy Tove 11th Jan 18, 6:02 PM
    • 3,227 Posts
    • 4,671 Thanks
    The Slithy Tove
    GUYS, out of interest, if long down the line it does go to court and I lose. What is the worse possible amount I will have to pay ?
    Originally posted by nasescoba1985
    It should be JUST the parking charge plus a few costs, like the court filing fee. If they are using POFA, they cannot ask for more. Even if not, your defence should challenge the various debt collection fees that they'll no doubt add along the way (you demand to see proof that such fees were ever paid to the debt collectors, which they won't have, as they only get paid by results), and any other spurious charges. They cannot claim their own legal fees beyond the standard £50 they slap on for filing a claim. So it'd be roughly the parking charge + about £100.
    • nasescoba1985
    • By nasescoba1985 11th Jan 18, 6:12 PM
    • 70 Posts
    • 23 Thanks
    nasescoba1985
    Thank you, well I think the £100+ is worth the risk as I will win this
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