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  • FIRST POST
    • Daughter1
    • By Daughter1 14th Dec 17, 11:23 PM
    • 7Posts
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    Daughter1
    Helping Mums Wishes
    • #1
    • 14th Dec 17, 11:23 PM
    Helping Mums Wishes 14th Dec 17 at 11:23 PM
    Our father has recently passed away leaving the family home that my mum lives in, In trust until she passes or for her lifetime and then it goes to my younger sister. My mum will gain approximately £70-£80k and previously was able to claim social care due to my dads money being in his own name and inaccessible to her, and the marital home being in his sole name. He spent the last 4/5 years in a nursing home with dementia and luckily was granted CHC which funded him in the home. After money has been given as stated in the will to grandchildren etc my mum will be left with the above amount but she is not happy that this will get blown on care. We understand she can gift us £3k each a year (me and my sister) however she does not feel it was fair we were left nothing financially in the will and will get what's left when she has gone. A friend told us they had the same situation so their mum drew out £200 a day and gave it to the children. Surely there is a loophole of my mum giving us a share of this money. (She wants to split it 3 ways with herself included) Her query is what can't she do what she wants with the money? We have promised she won't go into care and if my sister needs to later on she will give up work to care for our mum (she did this for 3 years with our dad before it became too much for her and it was clear he needed more. He had severe dementia and mobility issues and had become aggressive) There is no IHT and I'm happy my sister will get the house one day due to the sacrifices she has made for both of our parents and I totally understand why they did this in my fathers will. Any help would be appreciated. Mum only currently gets 15 hours a week care through social care as my sister works as well as living with her and caring for her on her days off. We asked the solicitor about DOV but they treated us like we were after our mums money and not looking at her interests. This is what our mum wants. Any advice would be appreciated.
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    • Margot123
    • By Margot123 15th Dec 17, 4:14 PM
    • 533 Posts
    • 547 Thanks
    Margot123
    I so agree with this! I always said to my parents that they would never go into a care home. However, circumstances can change. My Dad was my Mum;s carer at age 94, she was aged 89. I helped out where I could with shopping cooking cleaning etc. Unfortunately she had a stroke which took her balance completely and took what remained of her limited eyesight. There was no alternative as my health had also deteriorated.

    Never say never!
    Originally posted by puppypants
    The impact on the physical AND psychological health of those who care for vulnerable people can never be overestimated.

    I don't think I know of anyone who has been able to provide what they may have promised. It always takes someone at a distance, eg neighbour, friend, GP, to give home carers a reality check about their own vulnerability.
    • Daughter1
    • By Daughter1 15th Dec 17, 6:54 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Daughter1
    What does LA stand for and yes my sister has power of attorney for our mum as she lives with her, but any major decisions we would always make together. So with gifting is there a maximum she can gift at Xmas and birthdays is it £3k per year per person? We accept she will now ha e to pay for her care and realise dad was doing what he thought was best for her
    • Daughter1
    • By Daughter1 15th Dec 17, 7:05 PM
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    • 1 Thanks
    Daughter1
    Yes we already have stair lift and wet room. No I will get nothing and the reason my sister will get the house is she has sacrificed so much to care for both of our parents. Whilst she will be mortgage free at a reasonable young age I have a husband and children so totally feel what she sacrificed caring for them (her choice to stay living with them) she at least deserves this. I think in hindsight my dad would have wanted to make sure something was left to me and my sister rather than it all being used on care. Itís a shame he worked so hard paying his Texas and national insurance for it to go back to them. Of course mum will be comfortable and got forbid my sister should become ill then yes we would have to look at care in the interim but the only way my mum would go into a home was if she had dementia like our father and didnít really understand it. It was the hardest thing for us to put dad into a home but as well as him needing more care, he was more aggressive and kept trying to walk and falling lots so it was the best thing for him.
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 15th Dec 17, 7:07 PM
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    Yorkshireman99
    LA means the local authority i.e. the local cuncil responsible for health care. There is NO £3K limit. Under a power of attorney there is no set limit for gifts but they should be no more than had been made in the past. Anything more than a token amount of say £25 per person would not be permissible. The sister who has power of attorney needs to read the rules she agreed to when appointed and follow them. If she has been paying large sums of money as you have suggested then she is laible to repay them to her mother.
    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 15th Dec 17, 8:09 PM
    • 4,343 Posts
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    Keep pedalling
    What does LA stand for and yes my sister has power of attorney for our mum as she lives with her, but any major decisions we would always make together. So with gifting is there a maximum she can gift at Xmas and birthdays is it £3k per year per person? We accept she will now ha e to pay for her care and realise dad was doing what he thought was best for her
    Originally posted by Daughter1
    No, that would be well beyond the authority of an attorney. There is no set amount but it should not exceed her historic gifting. So if in the past she has been giving gifts averaging £30 per person then it would be reasonable to continue gifting at that sort of level, in other words there should be no dramatic increase in her expenditure other than for items purchased for her own benefit alone.

    You need to get this £3000 out of your head, as has already been said that figure is associated with IHT limits, and anyway it is £3000 in total not per person.
    • troubleinparadise
    • By troubleinparadise 15th Dec 17, 8:45 PM
    • 994 Posts
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    troubleinparadise
    An attorney “acts in the best interests of the donor”.

    The best interests of the donor are to have their assets preserved for them, spent on their needs, not to give them away.

    An attorney should not benefit themselves from their activities as an attorney - that is, they should not gift the donor’s money to themselves.

    The attorney can make gifts in keeping with the donor’s previous amount of gifts, perhaps on birthdays and Christmas, and taking into account the donor’s assets. For instance, a millionaire could make greater gifts than a person with only a few thousand pounds in the bank. What might your Mum have given in the past - £25, £50, £100? I suggest it probably didn’t run into the thousands level, so the Attorney can’t start handing out those sorts of sums.

    Your mother’s estate will not exceed the Inheritance Tax (IHT) threshold - in her case, £650,000 at today’s rate - so there is no need to try to reduce her exposure to IHT by the allowed £3,000 annual gift allowance. Please forget about the £3,000 that you have heard of - it doesn’t apply to your mother’s situation.

    It sounds as though your mother has some diagnosis that means she needs care and an attorney for her financial affairs. I hope that keeping her at home with your sister’s care will be all she needs. But should things change and she needs additional carer visits or residential care it may be that her present funds run short. A financial assessment will be done, and it will be seen if the attorney has gifted her funds. Please ask your sister to read up on her powers and responsibilities as attorney, and don’t be tempted to gift Mum’s money. It could be viewed as stealing and abuse of attorneyship.

    It may be that your Mum’s money is never needed for care, and it outlasts her; given your family’s determination to care for her at home that could happen. That way you might all have a pleasant windfall without need to contravene any rules.
    Last edited by troubleinparadise; 15-12-2017 at 8:48 PM.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 15th Dec 17, 9:05 PM
    • 31,168 Posts
    • 18,682 Thanks
    getmore4less
    What does LA stand for and yes my sister has power of attorney for our mum as she lives with her, but any major decisions we would always make together. So with gifting is there a maximum she can gift at Xmas and birthdays is it £3k per year per person? We accept she will now ha e to pay for her care and realise dad was doing what he thought was best for her
    Originally posted by Daughter1
    Does your mother still have capacity?
    • Mojisola
    • By Mojisola 15th Dec 17, 9:23 PM
    • 28,752 Posts
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    Mojisola
    We have promised she won't go into care and if my sister needs to later on she will give up work to care for our mum

    (she did this for 3 years with our dad before it became too much for her and it was clear he needed more. He had severe dementia and mobility issues and had become aggressive)
    Originally posted by Daughter1
    Why on earth would you make a promise like that when you've already been through it with Dad and seen that residential care is sometimes the best thing for the person who needs care?
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 15th Dec 17, 9:45 PM
    • 3,542 Posts
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    Yorkshireman99
    It is still no excuse for plundering her bank account which is what seems to have happened and contiues to happen.
    • Margot123
    • By Margot123 16th Dec 17, 9:37 AM
    • 533 Posts
    • 547 Thanks
    Margot123
    It is still no excuse for plundering her bank account which is what seems to have happened and contiues to happen.
    Originally posted by Yorkshireman99
    Time and time again this happens, and people come on here and talk as though they are doing it for the vulnerable person and not themselves.
    • Daughter1
    • By Daughter1 7th Jan 18, 5:11 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Daughter1
    I'm not sure where you get that we have "plundered"her bank account so please don't be disrespectful
    • Daughter1
    • By Daughter1 7th Jan 18, 5:12 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Daughter1
    We are genuin,y enquiring for our mum and we know this is not what dad would have wanted. We only want the best for our mum.
    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 7th Jan 18, 6:01 PM
    • 4,343 Posts
    • 4,722 Thanks
    Keep pedalling
    We are genuin,y enquiring for our mum and we know this is not what dad would have wanted. We only want the best for our mum.
    Originally posted by Daughter1
    If that is not wanted your dad wanted then why did his will say it was? What is best for your mum is that she keeps those funds for her own benefit, whether that is for care fees, on the odd treat for herself, or just not worrying about the cost of turning the heat up full blast when it is cold.Giving it away provides her with no benefits whatsoever.
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 7th Jan 18, 7:03 PM
    • 3,542 Posts
    • 2,888 Thanks
    Yorkshireman99
    We are genuin,y enquiring for our mum and we know this is not what dad would have wanted. We only want the best for our mum.
    Originally posted by Daughter1
    Everything you have said through this thread shows that you are actually trying to get your hands on your mother's money rather than to do what is best for her. Trying to lower the capital is simply an a attempt to prevent the care home fees being paid. Whatever you promised your mum , or what your dad wanted has no relevance. The reality is that however much you might want to care for her at home this my become impossible. I am not being disrespectful just pointing out the hard facts.
    Last edited by Yorkshireman99; 08-01-2018 at 10:52 PM.
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