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  • FIRST POST
    • MARKMAKAVELI
    • By MARKMAKAVELI 11th Dec 17, 4:49 PM
    • 175Posts
    • 56Thanks
    MARKMAKAVELI
    I have a permit, but parked in wrong permit section
    • #1
    • 11th Dec 17, 4:49 PM
    I have a permit, but parked in wrong permit section 11th Dec 17 at 4:49 PM
    Just started leasing office space. I was given a permit but wasn't given any instruction as to where to park and parked underneath a sign that warned that "you need a permit'. I thought "great I've got one"!

    I didn't realise there would be multiple different operators in the same place. Turns out my permit is for a different section than what I parked in.

    Can I expect any leniency or is it just a case of "should have paid more attention"?

    Obviously the landlord denies all responsibility and says I have to take it up with the company, I've not spoken to the company yet but presume they won't understand?

    Thanks
    Last edited by MARKMAKAVELI; 11-12-2017 at 4:50 PM. Reason: .
Page 1
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 11th Dec 17, 6:17 PM
    • 52,824 Posts
    • 66,327 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #2
    • 11th Dec 17, 6:17 PM
    • #2
    • 11th Dec 17, 6:17 PM
    Can I expect any leniency
    Nope, but no-one pays private parking tickets here.

    or is it just a case of "should have paid more attention"?
    No, we agree with you. The signs sounds ambiguous, and you were 'authorised' and a permit-holder.

    But you do not 'speak to' the parking company, they don't have normal conversations as if you are a customer you know. These are likely to be ex-clamper thugs, and most people here beat them at POPLA (if a BPA member) or ignore them (if an IPC member), or we later beat them at small claims court.

    Which PPC?
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • MARKMAKAVELI
    • By MARKMAKAVELI 13th Dec 17, 1:39 PM
    • 175 Posts
    • 56 Thanks
    MARKMAKAVELI
    • #3
    • 13th Dec 17, 1:39 PM
    • #3
    • 13th Dec 17, 1:39 PM
    Sorry I didn't get a notification of reply.

    It's from http://www.ukparkingcontrol.com/

    There's a BPA logo on their site so I've gone onto popla.co.uk and will have a search of this message board tonight.

    Anything else you'd recommend? Thanks
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 14th Dec 17, 12:20 AM
    • 52,824 Posts
    • 66,327 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #4
    • 14th Dec 17, 12:20 AM
    • #4
    • 14th Dec 17, 12:20 AM
    Sorry I didn't get a notification of reply.
    You don't automatically, you should be reading the forum anyway, and see your replies as well as other UKPC threads.

    I've gone onto popla.co.uk
    Why? That won't assist you until 2018.

    You haven't submitted the forum appeal online to UKPC yet, and you won't do that till day 26, as I hope you've already now read in the sticky thread 'NEWBIES PLEASE READ THESE FAQS FIRST'.

    Please no 'why wait till day 26?', nor 'where's the NEWBIES thread?' You are looking at the answer, below in coloured words.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • MARKMAKAVELI
    • By MARKMAKAVELI 14th Dec 17, 8:55 AM
    • 175 Posts
    • 56 Thanks
    MARKMAKAVELI
    • #5
    • 14th Dec 17, 8:55 AM
    • #5
    • 14th Dec 17, 8:55 AM
    thanks, will do all that.

    I've setup my own business, just moved to London this week an everything is a bit chaotic. Will read through asap.
    • MARKMAKAVELI
    • By MARKMAKAVELI 27th Dec 17, 5:05 PM
    • 175 Posts
    • 56 Thanks
    MARKMAKAVELI
    • #6
    • 27th Dec 17, 5:05 PM
    • #6
    • 27th Dec 17, 5:05 PM
    I've read the newbie thread now thanks.

    I can't see any point in complaining or doing anything?!
    If I just ignore it, they will send a few nasty letters, get their Debt Recovery company involved and then eventually give up.

    Am I missing something?
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 27th Dec 17, 5:14 PM
    • 1,507 Posts
    • 1,647 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    • #7
    • 27th Dec 17, 5:14 PM
    • #7
    • 27th Dec 17, 5:14 PM
    Complaining might see it cancelled now. Certainty.
    Otherwise they may give court a try. Just after you’ve moved house. Resulting in a ccj. They’ve got 6 years to decide.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 27th Dec 17, 5:31 PM
    • 16,311 Posts
    • 25,386 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #8
    • 27th Dec 17, 5:31 PM
    • #8
    • 27th Dec 17, 5:31 PM
    I've setup my own business, just moved to London this week
    Have you updated the DVLA with your new address for both your V5C and your driving licence (two separate notifications)? Failure on the driving licence can see a fine for £1,000 potentially winging its way to you.

    It’s very likely that UKPC will correspond with your old address if they access your details from the DVLA (updating the DVLA now won’t be in time for them to get their records straight in time for a UKPC data request) so it’s very important that you head UKPC away from contacting the DVLA by getting your initial appeal in to them on day 26 with details of your new address - don’t just give them an email address. Them not having your current, new address provided to them leaves you extremely vulnerable should they issue court proceedings to your former address.

    Have you set up a Royal Mail re-direct?
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 27th Dec 17, 8:30 PM
    • 52,824 Posts
    • 66,327 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #9
    • 27th Dec 17, 8:30 PM
    • #9
    • 27th Dec 17, 8:30 PM
    I've read the newbie thread now thanks.

    I can't see any point in complaining or doing anything?!
    If I just ignore it, they will send a few nasty letters, get their Debt Recovery company involved and then eventually give up.

    Am I missing something?
    Originally posted by MARKMAKAVELI
    The fact that UKPC sue people, and (conversely) that they are dead easy to beat at POPLA and you only have a limited time to simply follow what the NEWBIES thread says, and kill this threat off. You might find if you ignore them that you get a default CCJ in a year's time that stops you borrowing money...

    And by appealing online you can give your new address in the appellant's details boxes, choose 'registered keeper' and that way you won't miss their reply begging to know who was driving (ignore that one) then the POPLA code (use it).
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • MARKMAKAVELI
    • By MARKMAKAVELI 6th Jan 18, 11:52 AM
    • 175 Posts
    • 56 Thanks
    MARKMAKAVELI
    Thanks guys, I've not actually moved yet. I'm spending time between the 2 at the moment. I will update when I do 100%.

    I'm about to submit appeal online at https://www.ukpcappeals.co.uk/appeal

    One query was the template wording "I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers."

    My issue is that there was clear signage there but I didn't know that it was a different 'operator'. I assumed it was correct as I had a parking permit and this parking is literally in-front of my office and wasn't told otherwise. You don't expect to be given a permit for office parking, for it to be anywhere other than by your office?! Do these details matter or do I just submit what it says?

    Also I have to submit my email address, that's ok right as I'm not naming myself as the driver?
    Last edited by MARKMAKAVELI; 06-01-2018 at 11:54 AM. Reason: .
    • waamo
    • By waamo 6th Jan 18, 11:55 AM
    • 2,244 Posts
    • 2,703 Thanks
    waamo
    Use it as is. If the lettering is large enough make them prove it is.
    This space for hire.
    • peter_the_piper
    • By peter_the_piper 6th Jan 18, 12:00 PM
    • 26,482 Posts
    • 33,901 Thanks
    peter_the_piper
    It may well be an idea to take pics of the signs showing the ambiguity of the site.
    I'd rather be an Optimist and be proved wrong than a Pessimist and be proved right.
    • MARKMAKAVELI
    • By MARKMAKAVELI 6th Jan 18, 12:25 PM
    • 175 Posts
    • 56 Thanks
    MARKMAKAVELI
    Their sign is as clear as it gets. It's just that I didn't know there would be other operators. I just saw a "permit needed" sign in the offices where I have a permit and assumed it would be correct.

    I've since found out that where I'm supposed to park doesn't have any signs to my knowledge.
    • MARKMAKAVELI
    • By MARKMAKAVELI 6th Jan 18, 12:35 PM
    • 175 Posts
    • 56 Thanks
    MARKMAKAVELI
    The offices and where I parked:
    http://i67.tinypic.com/fucor7.jpg

    I parked under this sign. It's the end of the row of cars you can see on pic 1.
    http://i66.tinypic.com/axcpon.jpg

    This is the sign.
    http://i67.tinypic.com/qxopzt.jpg
    Last edited by MARKMAKAVELI; 06-01-2018 at 12:42 PM. Reason: .
    • peter_the_piper
    • By peter_the_piper 6th Jan 18, 12:42 PM
    • 26,482 Posts
    • 33,901 Thanks
    peter_the_piper
    Just what are UKPC saying you have done wrong? Reading as much as I can of the sign they only permit permit holders so would not anyone else be trespassing?
    I'd rather be an Optimist and be proved wrong than a Pessimist and be proved right.
    • MARKMAKAVELI
    • By MARKMAKAVELI 6th Jan 18, 12:44 PM
    • 175 Posts
    • 56 Thanks
    MARKMAKAVELI
    "parking in a permit area without displaying a valid permit"

    i displayed a permit but apparently it's not one for their section outside of my offices.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 6th Jan 18, 3:53 PM
    • 52,824 Posts
    • 66,327 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Submit the template 'as is' and make sure the drop-down says 'registered keeper' (NOT DRIVER).

    If you add words you might accidentally say 'I'.

    You think a sign with TINY writing, where you can only read: 'NO UNAUTHORISED PARKING' IS ''as clear as it gets''?

    The sign was not clear, it's ambiguous (WHAT IS 'UNAUTHORISED' THEN?) and the parking charge penalty is not in large lettering, and the driver didn't agree to any contract with UKPC, nor breach any terms. You can't even read £100 on that!
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 06-01-2018 at 3:56 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • waamo
    • By waamo 6th Jan 18, 4:21 PM
    • 2,244 Posts
    • 2,703 Thanks
    waamo
    Their sign is as clear as it gets. It's just that I didn't know there would be other operators. I just saw a "permit needed" sign in the offices where I have a permit and assumed it would be correct.

    I've since found out that where I'm supposed to park doesn't have any signs to my knowledge.
    Originally posted by MARKMAKAVELI
    How much bigger in mm is the size of the lettering than the required minimum? The same question as to the size of the signs themselves would be useful too.
    This space for hire.
    • MARKMAKAVELI
    • By MARKMAKAVELI 6th Jan 18, 7:44 PM
    • 175 Posts
    • 56 Thanks
    MARKMAKAVELI
    Thankyou for all your help guys, I've submitted it and received email confirmation of receipt.

    Now I wait another 20 days (day 56) for a response by email or letter with a popla number and head to stage 2 or it's finished.

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