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  • FIRST POST
    • CalHan
    • By CalHan 10th Dec 17, 9:51 PM
    • 4Posts
    • 5Thanks
    CalHan
    UKPC PCN for Residents Bay
    • #1
    • 10th Dec 17, 9:51 PM
    UKPC PCN for Residents Bay 10th Dec 17 at 9:51 PM
    Hi all,
    Always been a viewer of MSE forums for the experiences and advice but never a poster so I've now joined as I am seeking advice from those with the experience.. Having searched through quite a few posts over the past few hours relating to parking tickets and the excellent advice already posted (Newbies and sticky) I have a much clearer idea of how to appeal a PCN but was hoping for some guidance specific to my situation as the vehicles keeper as haven't managed to find anything exactly matching.

    To summarise:
    • Car park is used by shops, restaurant, hotel and residents. Residents bays numbered.
    • Parking monitored by UK Parking Control Ltd.
    • Usual small signs at a few locations around the car park with larger text underneath stating first hour free with displayed tickets.
    • Driver was unfamiliar with car park (first visit) and was there to use the hotel, mistakenly thinking residents parking applied to hotel guests. Arrived in the dark (there was car park lighting) and went straight to hotel.
    • Whilst checking in was advised by hotel reception about parking in un-numbered bays only so realising mistake went out with the hotel's guest parking permit in hand to move car. (Had been a few minutes due to queue at reception desk)
    • PCN already issued on car, within about 10 minutes of arriving for parking in residents parking without displaying a valid permit.
    • Issue time same as time first seen.
    • Photos on UKPC website show car parked in bay and also a sign that I assume is meant to show the nearest to the car but is poor quality so no detail.
    • In car details they have the colour wrong but don't think that matters?
    • Charge is for £100, not sure what the reduced charge is as it is printed over text above.

    My intention is to appeal online at day 26 using the BPA appeal template (UKPC are listed as BPA members) but not sure I have enough grounds? Also should I add in any of the above info relating to the circumstances?
    Should I try and find out who owns the car park and contact them first?

    Also in a bizarre twist, I have recently been gifted a Certificate of Entitlement for a new Registration plate but haven't yet registered it with DVLA. If I was to do so, would it aid or hinder my appeal as my existing number plate would no longer be registered so what would happen to the Notice to Keeper?

    Thank you.
Page 1
    • Redx
    • By Redx 10th Dec 17, 10:03 PM
    • 17,330 Posts
    • 21,721 Thanks
    Redx
    • #2
    • 10th Dec 17, 10:03 PM
    • #2
    • 10th Dec 17, 10:03 PM
    appeal using the blue text template as keeper on day 26

    no trying to explain yourself etc

    bear in mind that GRACE PERIODS in the BPA CoP apply here so for a start thats one appeal point , poor signage and inadequate lighting yet more points

    save all your appeal points for popla

    they may forget to send an NTK between day 29 and day 56 , yet another appeal point to popla

    racking up arent they ?

    the BPA CoP tells you what the reduced charge is (or should be)

    make model and colour - IRRELEVANT, the VRM plate is what matters

    and yes , ALWAYS , ALWAYS , ALWAYS complain to the landowner , that goes without saying, its a must do !!
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 10th Dec 17, 10:12 PM
    • 16,664 Posts
    • 26,071 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #3
    • 10th Dec 17, 10:12 PM
    • #3
    • 10th Dec 17, 10:12 PM
    In car details they have the colour wrong but don't think that matters?
    Standard PPC trick which often gets the keeper phoning them to query/complain about it, thinking they have a ‘get out of jail card’. Then they get trapped by the PPC into inadvertently divulging the driver. Don’t fall for that one.

    My intention is to appeal online at day 26 using the BPA appeal template (UKPC are listed as BPA members) but not sure I have enough grounds?
    Don’t worry about ‘grounds’ at this stage. You’ll likely have more than UKPC does!

    Also should I add in any of the above info relating to the circumstances?
    No. Save anything ‘extra’ for POPLA.

    Should I try and find out who owns the car park and contact them first?
    Get on with that soonest, but if you haven’t had a reply by day 25/26, get on with sending the initial appeal to UKPC.

    Also in a bizarre twist, I have recently been gifted a Certificate of Entitlement for a new Registration plate but haven't yet registered it with DVLA. If I was to do so, would it aid or hinder my appeal as my existing number plate would no longer be registered so what would happen to the Notice to Keeper?
    The VRM that matters is that which was current at the time of the parking event. Same issue as many who think that selling the car after the event somehow voids the PCN - it doesn’t.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • CalHan
    • By CalHan 10th Dec 17, 10:37 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    CalHan
    • #4
    • 10th Dec 17, 10:37 PM
    • #4
    • 10th Dec 17, 10:37 PM
    Thanks for the replies, I will send the BPA template as it is initially on day 26 and wait and see what happens. If I do receive the NtK does that affect the next stage, POPLA appeal?

    Also am I right in thinking that to get info on who owns the land I go to the Land Registry, having used a well known search engine it seems to point me in that direction. On the LR website there is a link to a Licence for Supply of Commercial and Ownership Data, which you register for but appears to be free access?
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 10th Dec 17, 10:45 PM
    • 16,664 Posts
    • 26,071 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #5
    • 10th Dec 17, 10:45 PM
    • #5
    • 10th Dec 17, 10:45 PM
    If I do receive the NtK does that affect the next stage, POPLA appeal?
    Depends when you get it. With a windscreen ticket - days 28-56. But that!!!8217;s only a starter; there may be other issues making the NtK non-compliant. Cross that bridge if you come to it.

    Also am I right in thinking that to get info on who owns the land I go to the Land Registry,
    For about £3, LR should give you definitive details. But if you can get it for free (exhaust those avenues first as long as they don!!!8217;t take you beyond your deadline for appeal) then do so.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • CalHan
    • By CalHan 3rd Jan 18, 7:36 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    CalHan
    • #6
    • 3rd Jan 18, 7:36 PM
    • #6
    • 3rd Jan 18, 7:36 PM
    Well its arrived, today is the day I submit my appeal using the BPA template as it is, I'm not going to change or add to it. However, I was hoping to clarify something - underneath the template it mentions about the name and address of the keeper - which I am appealing as - but if I provide that then surely they no longer need to apply to DVLA for my details? Or do the PPC still have to do the NTK?
    Thank you
    • The Slithy Tove
    • By The Slithy Tove 3rd Jan 18, 7:57 PM
    • 3,251 Posts
    • 4,723 Thanks
    The Slithy Tove
    • #7
    • 3rd Jan 18, 7:57 PM
    • #7
    • 3rd Jan 18, 7:57 PM
    Or do the PPC still have to do the NTK?
    Originally posted by CalHan
    Yes, to comply strictly with POFA, they must issue a NTK. By appealing now, they will normally omit doing this, even though they still don't know who the driver was. Therefore no POFA compliance, and so no keeper liability.
    • CalHan
    • By CalHan 10th Feb 18, 10:52 AM
    • 4 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    CalHan
    • #8
    • 10th Feb 18, 10:52 AM
    • #8
    • 10th Feb 18, 10:52 AM
    *UPDATE*

    Just wanted to pass on my thanks to this forum and those that have put together the useful information on it. Following your detailed advice I appealed against my PCN and just received the following reply:

    Thank you for your recent correspondence in relation to the above parking charge. We understand your frustration and appreciate the inconvenience this has caused you. It is not our intention to cause undue worry and frustration when enforcing our clients' terms and conditions of parking.
    We have investigated your appeal based on the information submitted and whilst we feel that the parking charge was correctly issued and that we were following the guidelines and enforcement controls agreed with our client, we have decided in this instance to cancel the parking charge as a gesture of goodwill.
    At all times UKPC strive to deliver a high quality service that enhances the existing quality standards insisted upon by our client.
    Please therefore take this letter as confirmation that your parking charge has now been cancelled and the matter concluded.


    Didn't receive any Notice to Keeper and now no need to appeal further. All finished.

    Thanks again.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 10th Feb 18, 11:03 AM
    • 8,195 Posts
    • 7,524 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #9
    • 10th Feb 18, 11:03 AM
    • #9
    • 10th Feb 18, 11:03 AM
    bear in mind that GRACE PERIODS in the BPA CoP apply here so for a start thats one appeal point ,


    Hang on, this is a residential space, it is solely reserved for a resident, how can a PPC allow an interloper to park in a space that is not available for public parking, even for a minute?
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 10th Feb 18, 11:15 AM
    • 16,664 Posts
    • 26,071 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    bear in mind that GRACE PERIODS in the BPA CoP apply here so for a start thats one appeal point ,


    Hang on, this is a residential space, it is solely reserved for a resident, how can a PPC allow an interloper to park in a space that is not available for public parking, even for a minute?
    Originally posted by The Deep
    But the car park was multi-use/purpose. From the OP:

    To summarise:
    Car park is used by shops, restaurant, hotel and residents. Residents bays numbered.
    Parking monitored by UK Parking Control Ltd.
    Usual small signs at a few locations around the car park with larger text underneath stating first hour free with displayed tickets.
    Driver was unfamiliar with car park (first visit) and was there to use the hotel, mistakenly thinking residents parking applied to hotel guests. Arrived in the dark (there was car park lighting) and went straight to hotel.
    Whilst checking in was advised by hotel reception about parking in un-numbered bays only so realising mistake went out with the hotel's guest parking permit in hand to move car. (Had been a few minutes due to queue at reception desk)
    PCN already issued on car, within about 10 minutes of arriving for parking in residents parking without displaying a valid permit.
    Issue time same as time first seen.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 10th Feb 18, 11:16 AM
    • 6,957 Posts
    • 9,059 Thanks
    beamerguy
    Well done

    TRANSLATION INTO ENGLISH
    "We are very sorry that we made a mistake,
    please forgive us.
    We have cancelled now, in fear that we maybe
    whooped again in court
    At all times UKPC strive to deliver a high quality service
    and those included are faking pictures and our own stafff
    hiding behind wheelie bins

    We conclude that we fail to manage car parks
    in a correct manner and our business mode simply
    dictates that we collect as many £100 as possible
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 10th Feb 18, 11:23 AM
    • 8,195 Posts
    • 7,524 Thanks
    The Deep
    But the car park was multi-use/purpose. From the OP:

    Yes, I read that. But if the lease grants sole use, then how can grace periods apply? Perhaps the MA needs to protect these spaces. .
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • kryten3000
    • By kryten3000 10th Feb 18, 1:03 PM
    • 25 Posts
    • 42 Thanks
    kryten3000
    There's a vast chasm between the OP's story and inconsiderate parking in someone else's space:

    Driver unfamiliar with the car park, left their vehicle in the wrong place (but didn't know this).
    Driver was made aware of their mistake, given a permit to use and told which spaces were available to park in.
    Driver returned to vehicle within a few minutes to display permit and move to a different space.
    It's not clear, but I would expect a considerate driver to move their car despite the love note left by the parking attendant.

    Alternatively - driver parks up, leaves car, checks in at the hotel and chooses to ignore instructions re. parking. Legitimate "owner" of the space is unable to park when they return home later that evening.
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