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  • FIRST POST
    • sandy1267
    • By sandy1267 7th Dec 17, 6:34 PM
    • 25Posts
    • 1Thanks
    sandy1267
    Worktop woes 😭 What are my rights?
    • #1
    • 7th Dec 17, 6:34 PM
    Worktop woes 😭 What are my rights? 7th Dec 17 at 6:34 PM
    I purchased 3 x 3 metres of high gloss worktop online from a company, paid for them and the delivery.
    The company stipulated an able bodied person must be available to assist the driver in carrying the worktops into the house, which was me, and we did this.
    My builder started to fit the worktop when I said to him it's smashed up on the underside of the rounded edge, so he started to work using a different one, I noticed that one was also cracked in the same place, they also had some sticky substance/scratch damage on them!

    I emailed pictures of the two damaged worktops immediately to the company, who asked for my order number. I gave them this but heard nothing so I rang them, the guy said he'd look into it and ring me back, as I was asking if he had my number he hung up on me. He didn't ring back.

    I rang back today to be told they refuse to replace the damaged two, because I didn't check them within 48 hours, I explained that they are far too heavy for me to lift to check on my own (remembering they insisted their delivery guy couldn't do this alone) to which they replied that I didn't have to lift them to check them.
    How else do you check them without lifting them? (They were stacked on their side in my front room and luckily I had sent the builder a photo of that to state they'd arrived)

    So now I have no worktops a half finished kitchen and a company who refuse to replace them.
    What can I do? Surely 48 hours for a single female to try to check every part of 3 extremely heavy (and wrapped) worktops is totally unreasonable by any standard, but they are not having any of it, they've effectively taken my money and ran?
Page 1
    • theonlywayisup
    • By theonlywayisup 7th Dec 17, 7:16 PM
    • 11,444 Posts
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    theonlywayisup
    • #2
    • 7th Dec 17, 7:16 PM
    • #2
    • 7th Dec 17, 7:16 PM
    Is this a private purchase or a business?

    In that I mean, did you buy or did your builder do it on your behalf?

    If you are a consumer, have a read here https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-rights-act

    You have 30 days as a consumer to reject the goods.
    • sandy1267
    • By sandy1267 7th Dec 17, 7:31 PM
    • 25 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    sandy1267
    • #3
    • 7th Dec 17, 7:31 PM
    • #3
    • 7th Dec 17, 7:31 PM
    Is this a private purchase or a business?

    In that I mean, did you buy or did your builder do it on your behalf?

    If you are a consumer, have a read here

    You have 30 days as a consumer to reject the goods.
    Originally posted by theonlywayisup
    Hi theonlywayisup and thank you for your reply.

    I purchased them online myself, from a business, they are a registered company - many thanks
    • theonlywayisup
    • By theonlywayisup 7th Dec 17, 7:53 PM
    • 11,444 Posts
    • 7,716 Thanks
    theonlywayisup
    • #4
    • 7th Dec 17, 7:53 PM
    • #4
    • 7th Dec 17, 7:53 PM
    Well in that case, you need to read that link. It isn't clear in your OP what the timescale is. Were you within the 30 days?
    • sandy1267
    • By sandy1267 7th Dec 17, 8:20 PM
    • 25 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    sandy1267
    • #5
    • 7th Dec 17, 8:20 PM
    • #5
    • 7th Dec 17, 8:20 PM
    Well in that case, you need to read that link. It isn't clear in your OP what the timescale is. Were you within the 30 days?
    Originally posted by theonlywayisup
    Theonlywayisup I received them 22/11/17 so two weeks ago. I have never heard of having to check an item within 48 hours so did think they were trying to rob me tbh!

    I've gone through the letter of complaint tool, so we'll see what happens in the fortnight they have.
    In the meantime I'll just have to come to terms with the fact that Xmas dinner is off the menu this year 😢
    • TheCyclingProgrammer
    • By TheCyclingProgrammer 7th Dec 17, 8:41 PM
    • 2,915 Posts
    • 1,666 Thanks
    TheCyclingProgrammer
    • #6
    • 7th Dec 17, 8:41 PM
    • #6
    • 7th Dec 17, 8:41 PM
    Don’t let them fob you off or claim you damaged them - unless they can prove that they don’t really have a leg to stand on. It’s not reasonable for them to expect you to have full inspected the goods on your own especially if they were not being fitted immediately. Two weeks is well within the time limits for rejecting faulty goods.

    The reason they like you to contact them within 48 hours is so they can claim of the courier. They probably won’t be able to now but that’s not your problem.
    • Head The Ball
    • By Head The Ball 8th Dec 17, 12:38 AM
    • 2,980 Posts
    • 6,860 Thanks
    Head The Ball
    • #7
    • 8th Dec 17, 12:38 AM
    • #7
    • 8th Dec 17, 12:38 AM
    If you paid with a credit card and the total was over £100, then you may be able to use Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act to get your money back from the Credit Card Company.

    Under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, a credit card company is jointly and severally liable for any breach of contract or misrepresentation by the retailer or trader.
    Google or search MSE for more details as I am not fully up to speed on all the details.

    Good luck.
    Who'll remember the ones
    who only rode in them to die
    All their lives are just a smudge
    of smoke against the sky
    • andyhop
    • By andyhop 8th Dec 17, 8:06 AM
    • 1,886 Posts
    • 970 Thanks
    andyhop
    • #8
    • 8th Dec 17, 8:06 AM
    • #8
    • 8th Dec 17, 8:06 AM
    You would have agreed to there terms and conditions when you purchased . I’m confident that it will state the above

    If you are too lazy to check items you have purchased for 2 weeks

    Worktops should have be stored correctly and checked as they came of the truck for damage .
    Hi, weíve had to remove your signature. If youíre not sure why please read the forum rules or email the forum team if youíre still unsure
    • theonlywayisup
    • By theonlywayisup 8th Dec 17, 8:26 AM
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    theonlywayisup
    • #9
    • 8th Dec 17, 8:26 AM
    • #9
    • 8th Dec 17, 8:26 AM
    You would have agreed to there terms and conditions when you purchased . Iím confident that it will state the above

    If you are too lazy to check items you have purchased for 2 weeks

    Worktops should have be stored correctly and checked as they came of the truck for damage .
    Originally posted by andyhop
    Harsh to call someone lazy.

    Either way, a company's T&C cannot override the law. The OP has protection from a card if he used one AND legislative protection which gives him/her 30 days to reject.
    • martinsurrey
    • By martinsurrey 8th Dec 17, 10:14 AM
    • 3,226 Posts
    • 3,927 Thanks
    martinsurrey
    You would have agreed to there terms and conditions when you purchased . Iím confident that it will state the above

    If you are too lazy to check items you have purchased for 2 weeks

    Worktops should have be stored correctly and checked as they came of the truck for damage .
    Originally posted by andyhop
    Fortunately the rule of law overrules anything that a company puts in their small print.

    OP, reject the goods, WRITE a letter to that effect as well as email, and keep a copy of the letter, and proof of postage (take the letter to the post office, send it first class and ask for proof of postage from the counter).
    • sandy1267
    • By sandy1267 9th Dec 17, 2:26 PM
    • 25 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    sandy1267
    Fortunately the rule of law overrules anything that a company puts in their small print.

    OP, reject the goods, WRITE a letter to that effect as well as email, and keep a copy of the letter, and proof of postage (take the letter to the post office, send it first class and ask for proof of postage from the counter).
    Originally posted by martinsurrey
    Thanks martinsurrey,

    I wasn't too lazy 🙄 I had to help the driver myself as they sent one person to carry the lot, so he put them down where I had room, unfortunately he put them down on the rounded edge, which is where the damage is, they were also stacked side by side, I didn't have a hope in hell of checking them as it would mean lifting and pulling them out, I'm simply not strong enough to do that.

    The delivery driver was out the door in seconds, there's no way he'd have waited for me to check them nor would he have helped me lift them to do so!
    I've sent them the consumers rights act which they've ignored so Far, surely their T&C's contravene the act?



    4. Delivery of Goods

    4.2 If an item on delivery is damaged, please ensure you make a note of this on the delivery paperwork and email info@hcsupplies.co.uk with the details. Do not refuse delivery unless every item is damaged. If you refuse a delivery with an undamaged item(s) included, you will be charged for the return and the re-delivery of that item(s). For large pallet deliveries please be aware that the costs will be considerably more than the delivery charge you would have paid at the checkout.

    4.3.2 Upon delivery it is your responsibility to ensure that an able-bodied person is present during delivery to assist the driver with off-loading and carrying the goods. If nobody is present to assist the driver the goods will be taken back to the depot and the delivery attempt classed as failed. If the delivery attempt is failed there may be a re-delivery fee to be paid by you, the customer, before we are able to send the goods back out. If you wish to cancel the order after a failed delivery attempt you are entited to a full refund less the delivery charge. Please note that all deliveries are kerbside deliveries only.

    4.4 Delivery dates are approximate and no liability whatsoever is accepted by us in respect of late deliveries. Do not arrange for any installers, kitchen fitters or other work persons to install the items until after they have been delivered and checked for discrepancies and to make sure the item(s) are undamaged.

    4.5 If for any reason expected delivery will exceed 14 working days from the date of the receipt of the order the customer will be informed and given the opportunity to cancel the order.


    5. Damages and Shortages

    5.1 You agree to open all boxes and packaging of items delivered by our courier service, thoroughly check the contents for damage and notify us (within 24 hours) via email at info@hcsupplies.co.uk if there is any damage/shortage. If the packaging of the goods appears damaged on delivery please ensure that this is noted on the delivery note.

    5.2 For goods dispatched using a pallet service you agree to check all the goods for any damage. Any products damaged in transit must be noted at the time of delivery and documented on the delivery note. We will not accept any claims for damaged goods in transit that were signed for as being in good condition but subsequently found to be damaged when checked after the initial delivery.

    5.3 Worktops need to be checked on delivery and refused if any damage is found to be present.

    5.4 If part of an order is damaged on delivery, please accept all of the order but make a clear note on the delivery note about which item(s) are damaged. Notify us within 24 hours and we will arrange collection of the damaged item(s) and delivery of the replacement item(s). Do not refuse delivery unless all items are damaged.

    5.5 If you appoint someone else to receive and sign for the goods on your behalf, you agree to advise them that the goods must be checked and you as the customer accept full responsibility for any damage or losses if they sign on your behalf without properly checking the goods.

    5.6 We cannot accept or even consider any claims for damages or shortages if we are not informed of such within 24 hours after the delivery has been accepted by you the customer.

    5.7 As the customer you accept full responsibility for any loss or damage to the goods once signed for.
    • sandy1267
    • By sandy1267 9th Dec 17, 2:29 PM
    • 25 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    sandy1267
    If you paid with a credit card and the total was over £100, then you may be able to use Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act to get your money back from the Credit Card Company.



    Google or search MSE for more details as I am not fully up to speed on all the details.

    Good luck.
    Originally posted by Head The Ball
    Payment was debit card, they don't accept PayPal or credit card, I can see why!
    • theonlywayisup
    • By theonlywayisup 9th Dec 17, 2:56 PM
    • 11,444 Posts
    • 7,716 Thanks
    theonlywayisup
    If they aren't responding, then you have a couple of options:

    https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/visa-mastercard-chargeback re your payment card

    or

    sending an LBA (letter before action).
    • sandy1267
    • By sandy1267 9th Dec 17, 6:31 PM
    • 25 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    sandy1267
    If they aren't responding, then you have a couple of options:

    https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/visa-mastercard-chargeback re your payment card

    or

    sending an LBA (letter before action).
    Originally posted by theonlywayisup
    thanks everyone.

    theonlywayisup I was of the understanding from your previous link that once I'd sent the template letter telling them they are in breach of the consumer rights act, that they had 14 days to respond?

    Xmas is ruined, as I have no cooking facilities now, and I've still had to pay the fitter a full day's work ☹️ I haven't asked for a refund, but for a replacement, so how they can say I've damaged them is beyond me 🤷!♀️ I've gained nothing but expense and inconvenience
    • Furts
    • By Furts 10th Dec 17, 9:34 AM
    • 3,638 Posts
    • 2,275 Thanks
    Furts
    Thanks martinsurrey,

    I wasn't too lazy �� I had to help the driver myself as they sent one person to carry the lot, so he put them down where I had room, unfortunately he put them down on the rounded edge, which is where the damage is, they were also stacked side by side, I didn't have a hope in hell of checking them as it would mean lifting and pulling them out, I'm simply not strong enough to do that.
    Originally posted by sandy1267
    Unbelievable! You are arguing you did not damage them yet here you are admitting you helped store them on the leading edge - which is wrong, create damage - which is wrong, and not stack them flat - which is also wrong.

    Regardless of the Law, you have entered a contract with an internet type supplier. Your choice, but you could have received proper service, and proper rights by using your local diy shed, or your local builders merchant. You chose not to do this.

    Your terms said you had to assist with the delivery, your terms said do not arrange kitchen fitting until the goods were checked and your terms said delivery was only onto the kerbside. Hence it was not the delivery drivers responsibility to take the worktops indoors. OK, this goodwill gesture has backfired, but the driver should have refused to do this.

    Regardless, you were managing this operation. If you cannot mange matters, then the common sense decision would be a supply and fit kitchen installation. After all, that is what the vast majority of consumers choose, with countless good reasons for doing so.

    All round I am siding with andyhop.
    • sandy1267
    • By sandy1267 11th Dec 17, 10:05 AM
    • 25 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    sandy1267
    Unbelievable! You are arguing you did not damage them yet here you are admitting you helped store them on the leading edge - which is wrong, create damage - which is wrong, and not stack them flat - which is also wrong.

    Regardless of the Law, you have entered a contract with an internet type supplier. Your choice, but you could have received proper service, and proper rights by using your local diy shed, or your local builders merchant. You chose not to do this.

    Your terms said you had to assist with the delivery, your terms said do not arrange kitchen fitting until the goods were checked and your terms said delivery was only onto the kerbside. Hence it was not the delivery drivers responsibility to take the worktops indoors. OK, this goodwill gesture has backfired, but the driver should have refused to do this.

    Regardless, you were managing this operation. If you cannot mange matters, then the common sense decision would be a supply and fit kitchen installation. After all, that is what the vast majority of consumers choose, with countless good reasons for doing so.

    All round I am siding with andyhop.
    Originally posted by Furts
    Is there a way to stack worktops? I wasn't given any instruction on this (I've never purchased a new kitchen before)
    The delivery driver knocked on the door and said I must help him carry them in, so I did.
    The website states that an able bodied person must be available to assist the driver in carrying the worktops, therefore I assume they mean into the house.
    The delivery driver decided where the worktops should go and how they should be stacked, being that he does this as a job, I trusted he'd know what he's doing, seeing as I've never taken this task on in my life, I would expect them to realise I wouldn't know what I'm doing.

    So, Thankyou for your unhelpful comment, T&C's, procedure, policy or whatever else does not overturn the law, which states I am in the right.
    You'd do well to look into wednesbury unreasonableness, you'll learn a lot from that.

    I will keep everyone updated as to the outcome, which will now be in the new year unless I get a Christmas miracle
    • david1951
    • By david1951 11th Dec 17, 1:58 PM
    • 373 Posts
    • 427 Thanks
    david1951
    unfortunately he [correction - "we"?] put them down on the rounded edge, which is where the damage is
    Originally posted by sandy1267
    How likely do you think it is that the damage was caused during this action?

    Do you know if they were they stacked the same way in the delivery truck?

    A court will assess this on the balance of probabilities. If they decide that the damage was most likely caused when it was put down in your living room (on the wrong edge, as you say), they will then need to decide who's fault that is. That basically comes down to who was negligent. Did you have instructions as to how to store it? Do you think it would be common sense to store it flat, or at least not on its leading edge? Should the driver have known this and advised you? These are the sort of questions the court will look at.

    The fact that you don't know how to position it goes both ways. Yes, they should have told you, but if you ordered a fridge would you have been concerned about it being upside-down for two weeks, even if the delivery guy put it that way?

    My builder started to fit the worktop when I said to him it's smashed up on the underside of the rounded edge, so he started to work using a different one
    Originally posted by sandy1267
    It doesn't help that the builder (apparently) started working on them before first checking that they weren't damaged. What's to say he didn't damage them? The court will likely ask this question as well.

    By all means proceed as advised above and see what the company say, but don't take it for granted that you will succeed with a refund if you pursue this through the courts.
    • david1951
    • By david1951 11th Dec 17, 2:05 PM
    • 373 Posts
    • 427 Thanks
    david1951
    T&C's, procedure, policy or whatever else does not overturn the law, which states I am in the right.
    You'd do well to look into wednesbury unreasonableness, you'll learn a lot from that.
    Originally posted by sandy1267
    I hope this works out for you, but it isn't clear cut by any stretch of the imagination.

    The law is on your side if you can prove (on balance of probabilities) that the damage was most likely caused either before you got it (very difficult/impossible) or as a result of the company's or delivery driver's negligence (more likely, but still not easy).

    I don't see how wednesbury unreasonableness is relevant...?
    • Furts
    • By Furts 11th Dec 17, 3:21 PM
    • 3,638 Posts
    • 2,275 Thanks
    Furts
    The delivery driver decided where the worktops should go and how they should be stacked,
    Originally posted by sandy1267
    As david1951 says it is by no means clear cut. Consider this statement. They are your worktops, going in your home, ordered by you and paid by you. You are the customer, so you are in control.

    Yet...a) You assisted with the worktops possibly being damaged by placing them on their leading edge yet you did not prevent this nor did you register any concerns about this to the driver at the time.

    b)you claim the delivery driver was in control of your home environment. So where is your sense of responsibility? Where is your duty of care to yourself?

    The Court might strike an analogy with any other building product and ask some fundamental questions. Be it a brick, a block, a sheet of plasterboard, an internal door, or whatever, all require competence to off load and store. You admit you did not have the competence (for this read knowledge) so why did you undertake the task? On the balance of probabilities it is likely you damaged the worktop.

    You say I am being unhelpful. I say you do not like the answers I am giving because they do not fit your preconceived ideas of total innocence on your part.
    • missprice
    • By missprice 11th Dec 17, 3:46 PM
    • 3,286 Posts
    • 97,832 Thanks
    missprice
    Is there a way to stack worktops? I wasn't given any instruction on this (I've never purchased a new kitchen before)
    The delivery driver knocked on the door and said I must help him carry them in, so I did.
    The website states that an able bodied person must be available to assist the driver in carrying the worktops, therefore I assume they mean into the house.
    The delivery driver decided where the worktops should go and how they should be stacked, being that he does this as a job, I trusted he'd know what he's doing, seeing as I've never taken this task on in my life, I would expect them to realise I wouldn't know what I'm doing.

    So, Thankyou for your unhelpful comment, T&C's, procedure, policy or whatever else does not overturn the law, which states I am in the right.
    You'd do well to look into wednesbury unreasonableness, you'll learn a lot from that.

    I will keep everyone updated as to the outcome, which will now be in the new year unless I get a Christmas miracle
    Originally posted by sandy1267
    Yes worktops and many many other things are supposed to be stored flat and not ever on edge. And Away from direct heat sources and not in extreme cold. It's a thing you should have known.

    The delivery driver may also deliver plants/parcels/windows/doors/turf/TVs/roof tiles/etc etc do you expect him to know how to store every last thing he could potentially deliver, even though you don't?

    I suspect you will not win this. Maybe better and more productive to go source some new worktops and get them fitted before Christmas and save your energy for something else.
    84 mortgage payments to go.

    Zero wins 2016 😥
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