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  • FIRST POST
    • drodn
    • By drodn 7th Dec 17, 4:45 PM
    • 2Posts
    • 0Thanks
    drodn
    Possible fraud from the vendors
    • #1
    • 7th Dec 17, 4:45 PM
    Possible fraud from the vendors 7th Dec 17 at 4:45 PM
    Completed a few days ago. House seems to be in good nick as per the survey.

    However, go back a few weeks and the survey pointed out a some minor leak from the boiler which I made a point of asking the vendor to have fixed and provide a proof that the job had been done before I proceeded. This was done and they sent me an invoice (with the details of a Gas Safe registered engineer - and he does exist!) for the job which included the replacement of a part.

    Fast forward to this week - the boiler had been acting up losing water pressure and some dripping so had a couple of engineers to check it and it turns out the part that was supposed to have been changed a month ago was the cause for the issues and is in fact 12 years old (there's a installation date label and a production year label) and has signs of long term leaking.

    tl;dr The engineer either scammed the vendors and myself or the vendors somehow 'forged' an invoice. I'm inclined to ring the engineer that "replaced" the part but wanted to know if anyone else has ever had a similar experience and what would be the correct legal avenue?
Page 1
    • Bossypants
    • By Bossypants 7th Dec 17, 4:55 PM
    • 524 Posts
    • 1,020 Thanks
    Bossypants
    • #2
    • 7th Dec 17, 4:55 PM
    • #2
    • 7th Dec 17, 4:55 PM
    Question one, how much is it going to cost to fix it?
    • Slithery
    • By Slithery 7th Dec 17, 4:59 PM
    • 358 Posts
    • 521 Thanks
    Slithery
    • #3
    • 7th Dec 17, 4:59 PM
    • #3
    • 7th Dec 17, 4:59 PM
    If you'd have asked here beforehand you would have gotten the advice to never get a vendor to fix anything, you should get the price reduced accordingly and carry out the work yourselves. A vendor will get the work done as cheaply as possible with no care about the quality.
    Last edited by Slithery; 07-12-2017 at 5:05 PM.
    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 7th Dec 17, 5:11 PM
    • 6,254 Posts
    • 6,034 Thanks
    davidmcn
    • #4
    • 7th Dec 17, 5:11 PM
    • #4
    • 7th Dec 17, 5:11 PM
    what would be the correct legal avenue?
    Originally posted by drodn
    Possibly "chalk it up to experience", depending on how much more time and money you want to spend.
    • Cakeguts
    • By Cakeguts 7th Dec 17, 5:14 PM
    • 3,272 Posts
    • 4,558 Thanks
    Cakeguts
    • #5
    • 7th Dec 17, 5:14 PM
    • #5
    • 7th Dec 17, 5:14 PM
    How do you know that the part that the engineer says they changed is the same one as is causing the leak now.

    If you have found a label saying a part is 12 years old how old is the boiler?
    • tykesi
    • By tykesi 8th Dec 17, 9:17 AM
    • 1,851 Posts
    • 2,567 Thanks
    tykesi
    • #6
    • 8th Dec 17, 9:17 AM
    • #6
    • 8th Dec 17, 9:17 AM
    What's the point of a tl;dr at the end? By the time anyone sees that they've read the full boring version already...
    £2017 in 2017 - £6362.49
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 8th Dec 17, 9:23 AM
    • 15,695 Posts
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    AdrianC
    • #7
    • 8th Dec 17, 9:23 AM
    • #7
    • 8th Dec 17, 9:23 AM
    So this component was replaced 12yrs ago? How old's the boiler itself...?

    Sounds like the best way forward would be a new boiler, tbh.
    • phillw
    • By phillw 8th Dec 17, 9:39 AM
    • 1,032 Posts
    • 620 Thanks
    phillw
    • #8
    • 8th Dec 17, 9:39 AM
    • #8
    • 8th Dec 17, 9:39 AM
    What's the point of a tl;dr at the end? By the time anyone sees that they've read the full boring version already...
    Originally posted by tykesi
    Some people skip the boring bits and go to the last page to find out who dunnit.
    • david1951
    • By david1951 8th Dec 17, 12:21 PM
    • 371 Posts
    • 427 Thanks
    david1951
    • #9
    • 8th Dec 17, 12:21 PM
    • #9
    • 8th Dec 17, 12:21 PM
    what would be the correct legal avenue?
    Originally posted by drodn
    A letter before action (use Google for examples) with the eventual threat of a Money Claim Online.

    However, sounds like the time and effort involved won't be worth it. You would probably, at most, only be able to claim for the cost of the invoice, not, e.g., a new boiler. Even then, he will presumably say that he 'fixed the leak' and use the invoice as proof. As for the new part, he could say that the guy replaced a different part, or that your guys didn't get the right one.

    All in all, my advice is to move on.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 8th Dec 17, 1:00 PM
    • 42,263 Posts
    • 49,091 Thanks
    G_M
    So either

    1) the vendor lied and forged the invoice. This should be easy to establish by contacting the engineer who will deny doing the work

    2) the engineer cheated the vendor. When asked, he will either deny doing the work (which will confuse you with 1) above), or try to bluff it out "I put in a new part. Perhaps your engineer removed my new part and replaced it with an old one"

    3) the vendor and engineer were in cahoots (engineer is his brother-in-law?). Engineer will respond as 2) above

    So you might get either proof, or at least a 'feel' for the truth by contacting the engineer

    But any claim you make must be against the vendor. You had a contract with him, and no contract with the engineer.

    If the eengineer cheatd the vendor, the vendor can in turn take action.

    Whether all this is worth it depends

    * on the cost of the part/repair
    * on the value of the boiler (12+ years old....?)
    * on your sense of grievance
    * on the value you place on your own time/efffort pursuing the matter
    • lincroft1710
    • By lincroft1710 8th Dec 17, 3:33 PM
    • 10,031 Posts
    • 8,090 Thanks
    lincroft1710

    Whether all this is worth it depends

    * on the cost of the part/repair
    * on the value of the boiler (12+ years old....?)
    * on your sense of grievance
    * on the value you place on your own time/efffort pursuing the matter
    Originally posted by G_M
    * on your chances of a successful outcome at court
    * on your chances of getting the money if you have a successful outcome at court
    • cloo
    • By cloo 8th Dec 17, 5:20 PM
    • 918 Posts
    • 813 Thanks
    cloo
    I think you just need to fix or replace boiler and move on, I'm afraid, it's really not worth a legal fight over when you want to get settled in a new home. Unexpected big initial expenses are a realistic risk when you buy a place, vendor lying or otherwise.
    • drodn
    • By drodn 9th Dec 17, 1:24 AM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    drodn
    Thanks for the opinions (both the helpful and the patronising ones!).

    I will contact the engineer that supposedly completed the work and go from there.
    • warby68
    • By warby68 9th Dec 17, 5:27 AM
    • 869 Posts
    • 8,998 Thanks
    warby68
    Whilst you're probably right about what happened you could try assuming that everyone is genuine and let the vendor know the problem is still there. Ask them to arrange for 'their' engineer to come out again as the 'replaced' part is, presumably, still under guarantee so it shouldn't cost anything (lol) ? You'd do it yourself but of course the contract is with them so it seems right they help out in this way to avoid extra cost for everyone !!

    See what response you get? (I'd bet none if I had to but you never know)

    Beyond that, taking this legal will probably not be cost/time effective. Whilst you feel patronised here, I wonder if you are a FTB? People who have a couple of house purchases under their belt know what a 'game' it can be and would consider a modest amount of boiler repairs a 'win' overall. It doesn't make it right at all, its just about looking at the bigger picture and not letting something relatively small spoil the enjoyment of a new home.

    I'd be annoyed too but would probably settle for letting THEM know that YOU know and move on.
    • glasgowdan
    • By glasgowdan 9th Dec 17, 7:20 AM
    • 2,633 Posts
    • 2,940 Thanks
    glasgowdan
    Drodn you didn't answer the very first question. What do you think the likely cost to fix it is? What part is leaking?
    • Mickygg
    • By Mickygg 9th Dec 17, 8:41 AM
    • 1,335 Posts
    • 1,050 Thanks
    Mickygg
    It's all down to the cost . £100 quid or so its not worth it.
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