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  • FIRST POST
    • BarraDisciple
    • By BarraDisciple 7th Dec 17, 12:02 PM
    • 6Posts
    • 0Thanks
    BarraDisciple
    Leaseheld space & Double ticket
    • #1
    • 7th Dec 17, 12:02 PM
    Leaseheld space & Double ticket 7th Dec 17 at 12:02 PM
    Hi guys, first post here.

    First and foremost thanks to all the contributors, even by reading some other posts I already feel a lot better about my situation and I'm determined to not pay this charge.

    I received what I believe is called a double-dip. The other day I found a windscreen notice on my car and on the same day I found a NTK in my letter box, so the charge went from £100 to £200 in just a few hours!
    What they did was not leave a windscreen ticket the first time (a few weeks ago) and left one just a few days ago, so they "got me twice", reason being: Not displaying permit

    Whilst the permit was not displayed at the time (left the car in my own private spot which I pay ££ for, in a secure residential site for a quick stop at home before leaving again) I feel that I'm being scammed in some way.

    I've read the Newbies thread but I'm not quite sure what to do. This company seems to be both under the IPC and the BPA. Which complaint should I send from the newbies thread? They only accept post appeals (no email).

    Also I'm not sure what arguments I can make as the signage is pretty clear and the permit wasn't visible at the time (left on the passenger seat).

    I just find the whole thing unjust as I already pay good money for that space monthly and the amount they request is insane as I didn't damage or obstruct anything.

    Do I have a chance for appealing?

    Thank you
    Last edited by BarraDisciple; 07-12-2017 at 12:06 PM.
Page 1
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 7th Dec 17, 12:09 PM
    • 33,584 Posts
    • 17,463 Thanks
    Quentin
    • #2
    • 7th Dec 17, 12:09 PM
    • #2
    • 7th Dec 17, 12:09 PM
    Without telling us who the ppc is you need to find out for yourself which assoc. they are in.


    Use the bmpa website


    (You aren't the victim of double dipping - that's to do with anpr!)
    • BarraDisciple
    • By BarraDisciple 7th Dec 17, 12:19 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    BarraDisciple
    • #3
    • 7th Dec 17, 12:19 PM
    • #3
    • 7th Dec 17, 12:19 PM
    Cheers, Quentin. The company is called UK Car Park Management (CPM)

    By the way I did check myself prior to posting and they're under IPC but show a BPA logo on their site as well hence my confusion.

    As for double-dipping I got it wrong then haha, thanks!
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 7th Dec 17, 12:30 PM
    • 1,185 Posts
    • 1,221 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    • #4
    • 7th Dec 17, 12:30 PM
    • #4
    • 7th Dec 17, 12:30 PM
    BPA rectangular is the boys club that anyone can join
    ROUND logo is the important one
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 7th Dec 17, 2:10 PM
    • 33,584 Posts
    • 17,463 Thanks
    Quentin
    • #5
    • 7th Dec 17, 2:10 PM
    • #5
    • 7th Dec 17, 2:10 PM
    Unfortunately you are dealing with an IPC company.

    Read up in the Newbies FAQ thread on the futility of sppeals to IPC companies.

    So ignore everything except court correspondence or a letter before court action.

    Come back for advice on how to deal with this if you reach that stage

    They have 6 years to start legal action against you
    • BarraDisciple
    • By BarraDisciple 7th Dec 17, 3:26 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    BarraDisciple
    • #6
    • 7th Dec 17, 3:26 PM
    • #6
    • 7th Dec 17, 3:26 PM
    Thanks again Quentin and nosferatu!

    @Quentin: Are you saying I shouldn't even use the template appeal for IPC members for the one I've received the NTK for?

    From my understanding I can ignore the windscreen one for now, until I receive a NTK by post, correct?

    But shouldn't the one I received by post be addressed and appealed to?

    It's confusing because they were so sneaky to not leave a windscreen one for the first ticket so now I have to deal with each ticket separately!
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 7th Dec 17, 3:35 PM
    • 40,521 Posts
    • 80,919 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #7
    • 7th Dec 17, 3:35 PM
    • #7
    • 7th Dec 17, 3:35 PM
    It sounds like you have two PCNs. One where you have received the NTK and one where you have a windscreen ticket. Check the PCN numbers to make sure they are different events.

    You don't appeal an IPC windscreen ticket but wait for the NTK then use the black template.

    What does your lease/AST say about parking? If it doesn't mention permits, you don't need one.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • BarraDisciple
    • By BarraDisciple 7th Dec 17, 3:53 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    BarraDisciple
    • #8
    • 7th Dec 17, 3:53 PM
    • #8
    • 7th Dec 17, 3:53 PM
    It sounds like you have two PCNs. One where you have received the NTK and one where you have a windscreen ticket. Check the PCN numbers to make sure they are different events.

    You don't appeal an IPC windscreen ticket but wait for the NTK then use the black template.

    What does your lease/AST say about parking? If it doesn't mention permits, you don't need one.
    Originally posted by Fruitcake
    Yes I have two PCNs indeed as the ref numbers are different.

    The lease I have in place for the parking spot doesn't mention anything about permits. I was sent one but was never "forced" to show it or anything. Then the agency hired the scammers and sent new permits to everyone, but in no way have I signed anything with them nor have agreed to someone giving me a "fine" for parking in my own space.

    So I can send an appeal for the NTK I've already received but not the windscreen one, got it.

    Cheers
    • BarraDisciple
    • By BarraDisciple 13th Dec 17, 12:54 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    BarraDisciple
    • #9
    • 13th Dec 17, 12:54 PM
    • #9
    • 13th Dec 17, 12:54 PM
    Hey guys, I was wondering if, based on the questions below, I should amend this template, or is it OK for you? With this being a residential car park, does it still make sense to clarify I'm just the keeper?

    Question 1: I already know who contracted them, not sure if they're landowner though.
    Question 2: signs are pretty clear, I'm not questioning that. I should be free to ignore them if I didn't sign a contract with them.

    I am the keeper of the vehicle and am aware of your purported 'parking charge'. The driver will not be identified. I require the following information so that I can make an informed decision:

    1. Who is the party that contracted with your company and are they the landowner?
    2. Is your charge based on damages for breach of contract? Answer yes or no.
    3. Please provide photos of the signs that you say were on site, which you contend formed a contract with the driver.
    4. Please provide all photographs taken of this vehicle.
    5. Please provide proof that the timing of any camera or timer used was synchronised with all other cameras and/or systems & machines.

    Do not send debt collector letters and do not add any costs, which would be a thinly-veiled attempt at 'double recovery'. I will not respond to debt collectors and to involve a third party would be a failure to mitigate your costs as well as deliberate and knowing misuse of my data.

    Should you obtain the registered keeper's data from the DVLA without reasonable cause (e.g. if you do not fully comply with the IPC Code of Practice in terms of signage at this site, as seems likely based on my research) please take this as formal notice that I reserve the right to sue your company and the landowner/principal, for a sum not less than £250 for any Data Protection Act breach. Your aggressive business practice and unwarranted threat of court for the ordinary matter of a driver using my car without causing any obstruction nor offence, has caused significant distress to me. I do not give you consent to process data relating to me or this vehicle.

    I deny liability for any sum at all and you must consider this letter a Section 10 Notice under the DPA. You are required to respond within 21 days. I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

    Yours faithfully,
    Thank you!
    Last edited by BarraDisciple; 13-12-2017 at 1:37 PM.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 13th Dec 17, 2:31 PM
    • 33,584 Posts
    • 17,463 Thanks
    Quentin
    If you have read up on this in the Newbies thread you will know no hope an appeal will succeed
    • BarraDisciple
    • By BarraDisciple 13th Dec 17, 4:19 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    BarraDisciple
    I understand that, but shouldn't I at least challenge that and have a record of me complaining/appealing to them for future reference?

    I'm sure it will be rejected but not so sure I should just ignore if that makes sense?
    Just want to make sure I do everything right, you know
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 13th Dec 17, 4:25 PM
    • 33,584 Posts
    • 17,463 Thanks
    Quentin
    Yes, that's the idea behind the appeal template - just to show a judge (should this get to a hearing) that you didn't ignore them
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 13th Dec 17, 7:44 PM
    • 51,818 Posts
    • 65,447 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    IPC firms are all the same, not sure why people ask about these ones at all, nor why anyone wants to amend the template? It's all pointless to overthink it.

    Appeal once to look reasonable and send out a message that you are on MSE, not a clueless gullible victim.

    Then ignore (NO IAS!) then wait for a LBCCC or court claim (if it happens), then defend and (likely) win. No effect on credit rating, no replying to debt collectors.

    Job done.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 13th Dec 17, 8:52 PM
    • 40,521 Posts
    • 80,919 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    Hey guys, I was wondering if, based on the questions below, I should amend this template, or is it OK for you? With this being a residential car park, does it still make sense to clarify I'm just the keeper?

    Question 1: I already know who contracted them, not sure if they're landowner though.
    Question 2: signs are pretty clear, I'm not questioning that. I should be free to ignore them if I didn't sign a contract with them.



    Thank you!
    Originally posted by BarraDisciple
    A lot of thought has gone into creating the template appeals in the NEWBIES. The questions are there for a reason. The best questions to ask are the ones where you already know the answer, especially if the scammers give a different answer as you can then question its veracity.

    As for the signs, do they really meet every requirement of the IPC CoP, and conform exactly to the ones in the Beavis case, and meet ICO requirements, have advertising consent, and state they have the right to override the terms of your lease?
    I thought not.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
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