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  • FIRST POST
    • jh2017fc
    • By jh2017fc 6th Dec 17, 9:37 PM
    • 12Posts
    • 1Thanks
    jh2017fc
    DVLA Unlicensed Vehicle £160 Surety - Refusal to Refund
    • #1
    • 6th Dec 17, 9:37 PM
    DVLA Unlicensed Vehicle £160 Surety - Refusal to Refund 6th Dec 17 at 9:37 PM
    My vehicle was clamped for being unlicensed recently - my fault. I paid £100 to get it unclamped and £160 as surety so as to go and get it taxed. The £160 would then be returned to me by the clampers, Redcorn Ltd, if I did so within 15 days.

    The car needed an MOT so it had to go in for some work first. Then it got its MOT - the the 15th day!! I phoned DVLA to tax the car and was told they could not "see" my new MOT on their system, so I should go to a Post Office armed with the paper version of my new MOT and pay my tax and get a receipt, and then I would get my £160 refunded.

    But no - this took place at around 5pm on the 15th day, and Redcorn Ltd close down their telephone lines at precisely 5pm everyday, without fail, with a short clear recorded message to say to call back next day - no Voicemail, no leave a message.

    I spoke to DVLA again that same day about this conundrum - I explained that I had now taxed my vehicle but could not notify the clampers who took the £160 surety because they close down their telephone system at 5pm each day (Monday to Friday).

    DVLA told me that as long as I had my printed reciept showing I taxed the vehicle on the 15th day then I could ring the clampers, Redcorn Ltd, the next day and they would issue the surety refund.

    I did this but Redcorn refused. They said they need a confirmation in writing from the DVLA that this was okay with them. I phoned the DVLA again and they declined to do this, saying they did not enter into communication with their contractors on this sort of matter. They said Redcorn took the surety money directly from me. Redcorn held the money. It was downm to Redcorn to return it to me.

    I phoned Redcorn again and this time they demanded I write via e-mail setting out my case. So I did - via e-mail. They did not respond. I telephoned Redcorn again to check they'd received my e-mail, and they told me they would respond "within 48 hours" of receiving any e-mail. They did not. After 4 days' waiting, I telephoned Redcorn again. They said they had received my e-mail and they had sent me an e-mail response but that it had "bounced back to them". Asked by me why they did not then either try again or try to contact me by other means, they gave no response. They would therefore seem to be in breach of their protocol of responding to complaints/requests/appeals etc within 48 hours. If they know their e-mail response was bouned back they know they have no responded surely?

    They did tell me that their bounced e-mail had said they reject my request for refund of the £160 surety because I was "too late". They did not accept that the closure of their telephone line was effectively blocking my chance to tell them about the tax on my vehicle.

    They told me to leave them alone and suggested no remedy. I am planning to write formally to the DVLA wheelclamper complaints service.

    Is there anything else I can do? This must have happened to someone else. Redcorn kept asking me why I had left it to the 15th day, and I explained the car needed work done so it could get through an MOT and THEN and only then could I tax it, and anyway, they told me I had 15 days, so I took 15 days. The fact they shut down at 5pm but don't stipulate that you must tell them BY 5pm on the 15th Day seems to me where they are at fault.

    Please can anyone advise?
Page 3
    • EdGasketTheSecond
    • By EdGasketTheSecond 7th Dec 17, 9:21 PM
    • 334 Posts
    • 185 Thanks
    EdGasketTheSecond
    Surely 'Clampers' and 'Refund' are mutually exclusive? I bet they never pay a refund under some pretext or other.

    OP issue a small claim against them; even if you don't win you'll make them work for it but if you have the necessary proof that it was taxed within the timeframe then I can't see you not winning in court.
    • jh2017fc
    • By jh2017fc 7th Dec 17, 11:14 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    jh2017fc
    if the MOT didn't run out until after it was in the garage ( post 25) why did you not tax it with the existing MOT right away?

    Seems odd to wait.
    Originally posted by sheramber
    Okay, I said I was offski from this business on this site, but here's another person who reckons that their judgement of how they may have organised my life were they charged with doing so, would have been so much wiser and better and more commendable and less "odd" than how I did it, that I could not resist coming back to submit myself to more moralistic flaying.

    Why did I not jump to it and tax my vehicle immediately after getting it de-clamped and taken to my local garage, you ask? Well, you have to step back and ask yourself what was I doing with this vehicle in the first place. There it was stuck in a garage, not in a great state of repair, untaxed and soon to have its MOT expire.
    Why? Why was it being kept off road, unused, in a private garage?

    Well, shoot me down, here's the answer: I had been bequeathed the car which was wheelclamped, because of a death in my family earlier this year and I already had a car - which was taxed, MOT-ed, and parked outside my home on the road.

    Now I had TWO cars and my decision with my family's consent and encouragement, was to sell one of them.

    I could not decide which one, so in the meantime I garaged the one I had been passed down, sorted out the ownership registration, and started to think about which car I wanted to keep on permanently and which to sell, and what I would need to do to whichever one I decided to sell.

    I decided I'd sort out the bequeathed car and put it on the market and keep my own car. So I thought I'd go step by step - service and repairs then MOT, and whilst in this process it got wheelclamped, so that just spurred me on really on my original plan - service and repair, MOT and tax, then advertise and sell.

    This might strike you as "odd" but when you are bereaved from the loss of a close family member maybe you don't always do things quite as others might.

    Even so, it doesn't matter one single jot, because none of the above is a problem. Being mugged by HM Govt to the tune of £160 is the problem.

    I am so very grateful for the encouraging remarks on here about being successful in court and am beginning to assume that the rest of you sanctimonious prigs either work for the DVLA or wish that you did.
    Last edited by jh2017fc; 07-12-2017 at 11:23 PM.
    • Willberry
    • By Willberry 7th Dec 17, 11:49 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Willberry
    I have read this thread with mounting incredulity. In his very first post the OP writes,
    "The car needed an MOT so it had to go in for some work first. Then it got its MOT - the the 15th day!! I phoned DVLA to tax the car and was told they could not "see" my new MOT on their system, so I should go to a Post Office armed with the paper version of my new MOT and pay my tax and get a receipt, and then I would get my £160 refunded." later in the post he writes,
    "I explained the car needed work done so it could get through an MOT and THEN and only then could I tax it"
    This bears little resemblance to the sob story trotted out in his very last post. Seems to me that the car was out of tax and out of MOT. He got caught and took too long in getting the car MOT'd and missed the tax deadline. If, as he says in his final post he was trying to decide whether to sell or keep this vehicle why was it not SORN'd for what appears the lengthy period it was apparently off the road. Most people in this situation would have made damn sure that the car was taxed as soon as possible, i.e MOT first, tax obtained and then serviced. Seems like common sense. I have to admit that it has been quite entertaining watching jh2017fc wriggling like a worm on a hook. If there are any sanctimonious prigs present then jh2017fc is surely the most sanctimonious of all.
    • Willberry
    • By Willberry 8th Dec 17, 12:18 AM
    • 4 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Willberry
    He may not have had a tax or MOT but at least he is a gentleman, although not necessarily in sobriety.
    • takman
    • By takman 8th Dec 17, 10:18 AM
    • 2,898 Posts
    • 2,411 Thanks
    takman
    You've got a right old bee in your bonnet about my MOT, haven't you. Perhaps you would permit me to make this crystal clear to you. When my vehicle was clamped for being an unlicensed vehicle, it had a valid MOT.

    My inquiry on this site, my first ever, and almost certainly my last, had nothing whatsoever to do with MOT. The whole thing - the wheelclamp, the fine, the tax, the surety fee, none of it had anything to do with MOT.
    Originally posted by jh2017fc
    This is even more ridiculous!. You knew that you had to get it taxed to get your £160 and you knew your MOT was running out so why didn't you tax it the same day, get your refund and then it's sorted.

    Considering that you can MOT a car a month early and keep the same annual expiry date there was no reason to leave it to the last minute anyway.

    All of this was due to the MOT because you needed an MOT to tax it.

    The MOT matter was entirely coincidental. My vehicle was soon going to need a new MOT.

    Coincidental to that my car - in my view, needed a service. It was approaching 80,000 miles on the clock. I thought it could do with one. I knew the MOT was coming up on it as well, so I thought I'd get things sorted. And I have admitted that I was aware that it was unlicensed and I was going to have to get that sorted out as well.

    The rest is history - I got it serviced, some repairs were done, the MOT was issued, and the tax paid for a year. I have also been fined for not keeping it taxed. And I have paid all of the unpaid back tax of a couple of months whilst it was in the garage. And I have acepted my Guilt for this in full without any excuse.

    In this unhappy story I thought I was mugged by the government for £160 for the refundable surety fee, but I was not sure. I thought I would come onto this site and seek the advice of all of you.
    Originally posted by jh2017fc
    Just consider it an idiot tax.

    I am most grateful for those of you who have been kind enough to offer your advice without throwing moral brickbats at me, but I am surprised at those of you have refused to address my questions and instead chose to try and rebuke me and taunt me and insinuate that I got what I deserved as the piece of scum that I am.

    And then there have been those like yourself who are clearly so thick that you just can't operate as an intelligent human being, merely as a knee-jerk troll on your keyboard.
    Originally posted by jh2017fc
    So your coming on here and personally insulting random people online because they don't agree with you. The only troll on here is you.
    I would say everything i have to you to your face, i bet you wouldn't insult people like that in person.

    I'm signing off now. When I get a final decision on this from the DVLA and/or the Courts, I'll inform the website. For the rest of it, I'll bid my farewells and move swiftly on with a very deep sigh of relief.
    Originally posted by jh2017fc
    • Tarambor
    • By Tarambor 8th Dec 17, 10:24 AM
    • 1,763 Posts
    • 1,206 Thanks
    Tarambor
    I'm losing track, how many versions of the truth have we now had posted by the OP?
    • Joe Horner
    • By Joe Horner 8th Dec 17, 12:25 PM
    • 4,170 Posts
    • 3,674 Thanks
    Joe Horner
    I'm losing track, how many versions of the truth have we now had posted by the OP?
    Originally posted by Tarambor
    It's a well established quantum principle. When dealing with sufficiently small minds, all truths are equally valid until observed by Jeremy Kyle.

    This particular instance is known as Schroedinger's Tax Disk.
    • custardy
    • By custardy 8th Dec 17, 1:14 PM
    • 32,770 Posts
    • 27,502 Thanks
    custardy
    • almillar
    • By almillar 8th Dec 17, 1:37 PM
    • 7,118 Posts
    • 2,864 Thanks
    almillar
    over the telephone, TELLS YOU THAT YOU HAVE 15 DAYS TO TAX YOUR CAR. They don't say anything about doing so by 5pm!!!
    I was given 15 days. I took 15 days
    You're taking the 15 days thing too literally. You don't get 360 hours from the time you phone them, it's 'roughly' 15 days. You could have done it in the morning on day 15 but you waited until the evening, made an assumption about opening times, and got it wrong.
    You repeatedly admit making a mistake, regretting not sorting it on day 13 or 14, but still want to blame someone else. It seems to me that the authorities have actually done quite well by you, giving correct information along the way.
    You were very unlucky to get clamped for being on the street for such a short time, but I really don't see what you're going to achieve trying to fight rules that you understand perfectly well you broke, with no special circumstances. Sorry.
    • EcoR1
    • By EcoR1 8th Dec 17, 3:01 PM
    • 87 Posts
    • 44 Thanks
    EcoR1
    I'm just waiting for the thread when the OP realises he's also being fined for his lack of tax as well, it's going to be tremendous.
    • Nodding Donkey
    • By Nodding Donkey 8th Dec 17, 4:18 PM
    • 2,480 Posts
    • 2,104 Thanks
    Nodding Donkey
    Have you written an LBA yet OP?
    • jh2017fc
    • By jh2017fc 8th Dec 17, 4:47 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    jh2017fc
    I'm just waiting for the thread when the OP realises he's also being fined for his lack of tax as well, it's going to be tremendous.
    Originally posted by EcoR1
    You must take up more reading and comprehension lessons in the English language, chum - then when you study what I have said on several occasions during this thread you will see that I have paid or will be paying the following:

    1. a wheelclamp release fee (£100.00) - PAID
    2. a refundable surety fee (160.00) - PAID
    3. unpaid back tax - notification of amount being calculated and sent by DVLA
    4. Fine for unlicensed vehicle - PAID

    So your pathetic comment is otiose and displays only your bathetic sense of schadenfreude.

    Oh, and I nearly forgot - DVLA NEWSFLASH*******SINNER GETS REFUND IN FULL WITH APOLOGY********EFF OFF TO THE WISEACRES, KNOW-IT-ALLS AND STONE-THROWERS IN THE MES GLASSHOUSE

    Yes, my £160.00 Surety Fee has been refunded to me without any more questions being asked - on the orderds of the DVLA by their wheelclamping Agency, Redcorn, who admitted they were wrong to refuse me the refund in the first place and apologise.

    I will be taking no further action. Except to say I am raising a chilled glass of the old Bubbly as I type this, ah, yes, those sweet, sweet bubbles - even a sinner deserves a little bit of justice now and then.
    • Aylesbury Duck
    • By Aylesbury Duck 8th Dec 17, 5:51 PM
    • 1,205 Posts
    • 1,505 Thanks
    Aylesbury Duck
    You must take up more reading and comprehension lessons in the English language, chum - then when you study what I have said on several occasions during this thread you will see that I have paid or will be paying the following:

    1. a wheelclamp release fee (£100.00) - PAID
    2. a refundable surety fee (160.00) - PAID
    3. unpaid back tax - notification of amount being calculated and sent by DVLA
    4. Fine for unlicensed vehicle - PAID

    So your pathetic comment is otiose and displays only your bathetic sense of schadenfreude.

    Oh, and I nearly forgot - DVLA NEWSFLASH*******SINNER GETS REFUND IN FULL WITH APOLOGY********EFF OFF TO THE WISEACRES, KNOW-IT-ALLS AND STONE-THROWERS IN THE MES GLASSHOUSE

    Yes, my £160.00 Surety Fee has been refunded to me without any more questions being asked - on the orderds of the DVLA by their wheelclamping Agency, Redcorn, who admitted they were wrong to refuse me the refund in the first place and apologise.

    I will be taking no further action. Except to say I am raising a chilled glass of the old Bubbly as I type this, ah, yes, those sweet, sweet bubbles - even a sinner deserves a little bit of justice now and then.
    Originally posted by jh2017fc
    Sure.

    This thread is going the way of kraken776's thread. That span out to 30+ pages but started with a similar pattern. OP gave the first version of events, didn't like the advice he was receiving, drip-fed new information to try and shore up his position then when it was clear people still didn't support his point of view, all the toys came out of the pram. Then, as if by magic, it all ended well when he revealed it was all sorted.
    • Willberry
    • By Willberry 8th Dec 17, 5:55 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Willberry
    You must take up more reading and comprehension lessons in the English language, chum - then when you study what I have said on several occasions during this thread you will see that I have paid or will be paying the following:

    1. a wheelclamp release fee (£100.00) - PAID
    2. a refundable surety fee (160.00) - PAID
    3. unpaid back tax - notification of amount being calculated and sent by DVLA
    4. Fine for unlicensed vehicle - PAID

    So your pathetic comment is otiose and displays only your bathetic sense of schadenfreude.

    Oh, and I nearly forgot - DVLA NEWSFLASH*******SINNER GETS REFUND IN FULL WITH APOLOGY********EFF OFF TO THE WISEACRES, KNOW-IT-ALLS AND STONE-THROWERS IN THE MES GLASSHOUSE

    Yes, my £160.00 Surety Fee has been refunded to me without any more questions being asked - on the orderds of the DVLA by their wheelclamping Agency, Redcorn, who admitted they were wrong to refuse me the refund in the first place and apologise.

    I will be taking no further action. Except to say I am raising a chilled glass of the old Bubbly as I type this, ah, yes, those sweet, sweet bubbles - even a sinner deserves a little bit of justice now and then.
    Originally posted by jh2017fc
    If this post is as accurate and honest as all those previously made by this poster then he might be a wee bit premature raising his glass. Wonder how much the back tax will be. I suspect that raising a glass too frequently has been the cause of all his problems and his rather 'inconsistent' posts.
    • sheramber
    • By sheramber 8th Dec 17, 8:31 PM
    • 4,004 Posts
    • 2,971 Thanks
    sheramber

    Yes, my £160.00 Surety Fee has been refunded to me without any more questions being asked - on the orderds of the DVLA by their wheelclamping Agency, Redcorn, who admitted they were wrong to refuse me the refund in the first place and apologise.

    .
    Originally posted by jh2017fc
    But you said the DVLA told you they did not get involved with the contractor.
    Did you forget that?
    • mro
    • By mro 8th Dec 17, 9:54 PM
    • 615 Posts
    • 618 Thanks
    mro
    My vehicle was clamped for being unlicensed recently - my fault. I paid £100 to get it unclamped and £160 as surety so as to go and get it taxed. The £160 would then be returned to me by the clampers, Redcorn Ltd, if I did so within 15 days.

    The car needed an MOT so it had to go in for some work first. Then it got its MOT - the the 15th day!! I phoned DVLA to tax the car and was told they could not "see" my new MOT on their system, so I should go to a Post Office armed with the paper version of my new MOT and pay my tax and get a receipt, and then I would get my £160 refunded.

    But no - this took place at around 5pm on the 15th day, and Redcorn Ltd close down their telephone lines at precisely 5pm everyday, without fail, with a short clear recorded message to say to call back next day - no Voicemail, no leave a message.

    I spoke to DVLA again that same day about this conundrum - I explained that I had now taxed my vehicle but could not notify the clampers who took the £160 surety because they close down their telephone system at 5pm each day (Monday to Friday).

    DVLA told me that as long as I had my printed reciept showing I taxed the vehicle on the 15th day then I could ring the clampers, Redcorn Ltd, the next day and they would issue the surety refund.

    I did this but Redcorn refused. They said they need a confirmation in writing from the DVLA that this was okay with them. I phoned the DVLA again and they declined to do this, saying they did not enter into communication with their contractors on this sort of matter. They said Redcorn took the surety money directly from me. Redcorn held the money. It was downm to Redcorn to return it to me.

    I phoned Redcorn again and this time they demanded I write via e-mail setting out my case. So I did - via e-mail. They did not respond. I telephoned Redcorn again to check they'd received my e-mail, and they told me they would respond "within 48 hours" of receiving any e-mail. They did not. After 4 days' waiting, I telephoned Redcorn again. They said they had received my e-mail and they had sent me an e-mail response but that it had "bounced back to them". Asked by me why they did not then either try again or try to contact me by other means, they gave no response. They would therefore seem to be in breach of their protocol of responding to complaints/requests/appeals etc within 48 hours. If they know their e-mail response was bouned back they know they have no responded surely?

    They did tell me that their bounced e-mail had said they reject my request for refund of the £160 surety because I was "too late". They did not accept that the closure of their telephone line was effectively blocking my chance to tell them about the tax on my vehicle.

    They told me to leave them alone and suggested no remedy. I am planning to write formally to the DVLA wheelclamper complaints service.

    Is there anything else I can do? This must have happened to someone else. Redcorn kept asking me why I had left it to the 15th day, and I explained the car needed work done so it could get through an MOT and THEN and only then could I tax it, and anyway, they told me I had 15 days, so I took 15 days. The fact they shut down at 5pm but don't stipulate that you must tell them BY 5pm on the 15th Day seems to me where they are at fault.

    Please can anyone advise?
    Originally posted by jh2017fc
    Keep hastling DVLA, they messed up and call shots on contractor.


    But remember, cars are only clamped when they are 2 months out of tax, so learn your lesson, watch it next time.
    • tastyhog
    • By tastyhog 11th Dec 17, 4:01 AM
    • 186 Posts
    • 277 Thanks
    tastyhog
    Keep hastling DVLA, they messed up and call shots on contractor.


    But remember, cars are only clamped when they are 2 months out of tax, so learn your lesson, watch it next time.
    Originally posted by mro

    simply not true, if they are doing a sweep of an area, which they do every day and happen to come across an untaxed car it will be clamped regardless of the length of time it has been untaxed and on the road.

    the 2 months is some arbitrary nonsensical timeframe based on the DVLA writing to people who have cars are untaxed and then specifically instructing one of their contractors to visit a specific address / area to place a clamp on a car.
    • mro
    • By mro 11th Dec 17, 6:01 PM
    • 615 Posts
    • 618 Thanks
    mro
    simply not true, if they are doing a sweep of an area, which they do every day and happen to come across an untaxed car it will be clamped regardless of the length of time it has been untaxed and on the road.

    the 2 months is some arbitrary nonsensical timeframe based on the DVLA writing to people who have cars are untaxed and then specifically instructing one of their contractors to visit a specific address / area to place a clamp on a car.
    Originally posted by tastyhog
    No, you are not correct.

    I know how it works.

    Would be more nonsensical to clamp any car 1,2,3,4,5 days untaxed wasting everybody's time, clamping multitude of cars and having to have massive compounds to store them within days if removed.

    DVLA realise that most cars are taxed and it is not cost effective to be hunting for tiny number of untaxed cars, clamping & removing any car that is untaxed for short periods.
    • sheramber
    • By sheramber 11th Dec 17, 8:42 PM
    • 4,004 Posts
    • 2,971 Thanks
    sheramber
    No, you are not correct.

    d.

    DVLA realise that most cars are taxed and it is not cost effective to be hunting for tiny number of untaxed cars, clamping & removing any car that is untaxed for short periods.
    Originally posted by mro
    Are you sure about that ?

    The number of drivers whose vehicles have been clamped for failing to pay vehicle excise duty (VED) has more than doubled since tax discs were abolished, figures have shown.

    The Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) said there had been a 166% increase in wheel-clamping operations in the three years to April.

    It means as many as 160,000 vehicles were clamped for non-payment last year, with many being towed away.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 12th Dec 17, 8:34 AM
    • 15,759 Posts
    • 14,055 Thanks
    AdrianC
    Chicken or egg?

    Some people claim it's evidence of how the tax disc was vital, and bringing it back would stop all these poor innocents forgetting.

    Others think it's probably because the mickey-takers think they're immune without a piece of paper giving them away.

    Having the primary record of payment an easily-forged piece of colourful paper is, in the 21st century, bloody archaic. How do people cope with renewing their insurance and MOT without having a piece of paper in the windscreen reminding them?
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