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  • FIRST POST
    • mikael1888
    • By mikael1888 6th Dec 17, 8:48 PM
    • 2Posts
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    mikael1888
    Help:Three network are scamming me
    • #1
    • 6th Dec 17, 8:48 PM
    Help:Three network are scamming me 6th Dec 17 at 8:48 PM
    Hi all.

    3 months ago I renewed my contract with three on the basis I got a free handset, I was adamant I wouldn't be paying for a handset as I still had my iphone 6 in great condition, so was willing to wait for a good deal.

    3 offered me the Samsung 8 with a free handset and six months half price on a decent tarrif.

    I then noticed on my first bill I had been charged £50 for the handset. I called three and was told someone would be in contact with me. I forgot about it, was not contacted, then notice it was taken our of my account.

    So cancelled the direct debit to ensure I was called asap. I was then contacted, explained my situation and was again told I would be contacted after someone listened to the initial call.

    I then went into hospital leaving my phone at home to keep it safe. 3 began pestering my mum, she took it out for me about 10 years ago when I had no credit, during this time I renewed the contract a few times thinking it was in my name. As I paid the bill and it was my billing address.

    I got out of hospital this week so phoned to sort this out. I attempted to explain to the first phone agent my issue for about 10 minutes, he played dumb during this time informing me I had to pay my bill to resume service. I then asked to speak with someone with better English who could understand my issue, he then informs me that he understood perfectly, that I was charged for a free handset!!!

    I'm then transferred to a Scottish guy. He says that I agreed to paying the cost of the handset 3 times. I explain I know as a complete fact that I didn't, as I was listening specifically for that. He said he was reading off a transcript so I asked him to read it back, he then says it wasn't a transcript at all, but a rough outline of the call?

    Finally I asked for the transcript and to listen to the voice call.
    He said I could fill a Request for Access to Personal Information. To which I'll have to pay £10 for the pleasure

    However

    "Voice recordings of calls you’ve made to us or that we’ve made to you.
    We don’t record all calls to and from us and any recordings that we do make are held for no longer than
    six months. So we may not be able to send you a recording of a specific call that you request."

    So they basically have me over a barrel, they've batantly lied on the call outline. I would just stop paying my bill but they are harrassing my mum and she's raging that she has a late payment on her credit file.

    Pease help, thanks!
Page 1
    • stuartJo1989
    • By stuartJo1989 6th Dec 17, 9:39 PM
    • 289 Posts
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    stuartJo1989
    • #2
    • 6th Dec 17, 9:39 PM
    • #2
    • 6th Dec 17, 9:39 PM
    I then noticed on my first bill I had been charged £50 for the handset. I called three and was told someone would be in contact with me. I forgot about it, was not contacted, then notice it was taken our of my account.
    Originally posted by mikael1888
    Ok, so you are in dispute of the £50 headset charge. That's understandable.

    So cancelled the direct debit to ensure I was called asap.
    Aha! So you are signalling that you will potentially not be paying your monthly contracted fees (the ones you agreed to pay). Not a good start, but let's see how the story unfolds...

    I was then contacted, explained my situation and was again told I would be contacted after someone listened to the initial call.

    I then went into hospital leaving my phone at home to keep it safe. 3 began pestering my mum,
    Well, if they have your mum's phone number and you are uncontactable then I think that's sort of reasonable...

    she took it out for me about 10 years ago when I had no credit, during this time I renewed the contract a few times thinking it was in my name. As I paid the bill and it was my billing address.
    Did you change the name over? I'd imagine that the first contract renewal happened within the first 2 years of purchase? If so, did your credit rating change enough in that time to enable you to pass a mobile phone credit check? Bit skeptical tbh.

    I got out of hospital this week so phoned to sort this out. I attempted to explain to the first phone agent my issue for about 10 minutes, he played dumb during this time informing me I had to pay my bill to resume service.
    He is right, you need to pay your monthly bill to resume your service. The £50 handset charge dispute is a SEPARATE ISSUE.

    I then asked to speak with someone with better English who could understand my issue,
    You seemed to understand what he was saying though, despite the poor English??

    I'm then transferred to a Scottish guy. He says that I agreed to paying the cost of the handset 3 times. I explain I know as a complete fact that I didn't, as I was listening specifically for that. He said he was reading off a transcript so I asked him to read it back, he then says it wasn't a transcript at all, but a rough outline of the call?
    Well, the Scottish guy is likely either lying through his teeth (unlikely) or has read the transcript at some point and just didn't have it at hand at the time.

    Finally I asked for the transcript and to listen to the voice call.
    He said I could fill a Request for Access to Personal Information. To which I'll have to pay £10 for the pleasure
    That is 100% correct. BUT if you are correct then you can request the £10 back (but it may require small claims court action).

    "Voice recordings of calls you’ve made to us or that we’ve made to you.
    We don’t record all calls to and from us and any recordings that we do make are held for no longer than
    six months. So we may not be able to send you a recording of a specific call that you request."
    1. They say that a transcript exists

    2. This all happened "3 months ago", which is significantly less than the 6 months it says in this quoted text.

    So they basically have me over a barrel, they've batantly lied on the call outline. I would just stop paying my bill but they are harrassing my mum and she's raging that she has a late payment on her credit file.
    - How do you know they've lied? If they have a transcript/call recording which verifies what they say then they ain't lying. Conversely, I have no idea what was or wasn't said on the call and cannot confidently take sides.

    - Your mum should be raging at YOU, for being silly and cancelling your monthly contractual payment. You are solely responsible for giving her that late payment on her credit file.

    - Again, you need to pay your monthly bill and dispute the £50 headset charge SEPARATELY.


    I think you need to get a hold of that transcript if you believe that you have a case. This is your biggest piece of evidence especially if you decide to take it to small claims court (which is one of the last resorts).
    Last edited by stuartJo1989; 06-12-2017 at 9:41 PM.
    • mikael1888
    • By mikael1888 6th Dec 17, 9:59 PM
    • 2 Posts
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    mikael1888
    • #3
    • 6th Dec 17, 9:59 PM
    • #3
    • 6th Dec 17, 9:59 PM
    - How do you know they've lied? If they have a transcript/call recording which verifies what they say then they ain't lying. Conversely, I have no idea what was or wasn't said on the call and cannot confidently take sides.


    As mentioned, I know they have lied because I did not agree to the £50 handset charge in the first place. My mother was in the room at the time and also remembers me being pretty happy about getting the phone for free

    Thanks for the thorough reply though
    • stuartJo1989
    • By stuartJo1989 6th Dec 17, 10:57 PM
    • 289 Posts
    • 282 Thanks
    stuartJo1989
    • #4
    • 6th Dec 17, 10:57 PM
    • #4
    • 6th Dec 17, 10:57 PM
    - How do you know they've lied? If they have a transcript/call recording which verifies what they say then they ain't lying. Conversely, I have no idea what was or wasn't said on the call and cannot confidently take sides.


    As mentioned, I know they have lied because I did not agree to the £50 handset charge in the first place. My mother was in the room at the time and also remembers me being pretty happy about getting the phone for free

    Thanks for the thorough reply though
    Originally posted by mikael1888
    Ok. In that case follow the Small Claims Court process. Write them a letter before action, giving them an opportunity to resolve it within a reasonable timeframe, and then take them to court.

    You'll likely need evidence of what was said (a third party like me or a judge has no clue what was said on that call) so a transcript would be helpful. Just pay the £10 for the transcript and take them to court for £50+£10.

    Aside from that, you are merely relying on their goodwill at this stage.

    Oh and pay your monthly bill. Not least because your mother could be taken to court for unpaid monthly fees, which will only cause a huge mess.
    Last edited by stuartJo1989; 06-12-2017 at 11:00 PM.
    • MataNui
    • By MataNui 7th Dec 17, 8:22 AM
    • 884 Posts
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    MataNui
    • #5
    • 7th Dec 17, 8:22 AM
    • #5
    • 7th Dec 17, 8:22 AM
    This is why i now record every single phone conversation i have. Once you start doing that you will realise that lying is absolutely routine for companies like this. Its so gratifying to be able to offer for some lying toad call handler to listen to the actual conversation that took place when they are !!!!!!!!ting about some 'transcript' they have thats entirely made up. Yes, they do lie about transcripts (or the contents of them).
    • camelot1971
    • By camelot1971 7th Dec 17, 9:51 AM
    • 551 Posts
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    camelot1971
    • #6
    • 7th Dec 17, 9:51 AM
    • #6
    • 7th Dec 17, 9:51 AM
    This is why i now record every single phone conversation i have. Once you start doing that you will realise that lying is absolutely routine for companies like this. Its so gratifying to be able to offer for some lying toad call handler to listen to the actual conversation that took place when they are !!!!!!!!ting about some 'transcript' they have thats entirely made up. Yes, they do lie about transcripts (or the contents of them).
    Originally posted by MataNui
    Do you find your tin foil hat muffles your voice when you record your calls? You do notify them that you are recording them too? Of course, customers would never lie about anything, it's those nasty companies who take advantage of every single consumer....
    • macman
    • By macman 7th Dec 17, 10:21 AM
    • 41,425 Posts
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    macman
    • #7
    • 7th Dec 17, 10:21 AM
    • #7
    • 7th Dec 17, 10:21 AM
    It's not your contract, it's your mum's. It's irrelevant that you pay the DD and that the billing address is yours. How have you been able to extend the contract several times in her name? How have you done this when the contract holder has a billing address that is not her actual address?
    No free lunch, and no free laptop
    • ThumbRemote
    • By ThumbRemote 7th Dec 17, 10:31 AM
    • 3,811 Posts
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    ThumbRemote
    • #8
    • 7th Dec 17, 10:31 AM
    • #8
    • 7th Dec 17, 10:31 AM
    Do you find your tin foil hat muffles your voice when you record your calls? You do notify them that you are recording them too? Of course, customers would never lie about anything, it's those nasty companies who take advantage of every single consumer....
    Originally posted by camelot1971
    Classic piece of diversion away from the actual point there. Make another statement, which actually has no relevance to the point that was being made, but frame it as though the two are mutually exclusive. Textbook stuff, well done.
    • MataNui
    • By MataNui 7th Dec 17, 11:24 AM
    • 884 Posts
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    MataNui
    • #9
    • 7th Dec 17, 11:24 AM
    • #9
    • 7th Dec 17, 11:24 AM
    Do you find your tin foil hat muffles your voice when you record your calls? You do notify them that you are recording them too? Of course, customers would never lie about anything, it's those nasty companies who take advantage of every single consumer....
    Originally posted by camelot1971
    There is no legal requirement for me to notify them. The law around private individual recording conversations is absolutely clear. You can record any conversation you are party to and dont need to inform anyone else. The requirement to inform the other party relates only to businesses. Additionally even if this changed as a customer you would still be covered since they have already notified you that the call may be be recorded. There would be no need to reciprocate.

    Not suggesting customers dont lie. Just that me recording the calls has most definitely been beneficial on several occasions. In particular with TalkTalk when they told a string of lies to justify them still billing me after i had migrated my broadband to BT.
    • marliepanda
    • By marliepanda 7th Dec 17, 1:19 PM
    • 4,890 Posts
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    marliepanda
    There is no legal requirement for me to notify them. The law around private individual recording conversations is absolutely clear. You can record any conversation you are party to and dont need to inform anyone else. The requirement to inform the other party relates only to businesses. Additionally even if this changed as a customer you would still be covered since they have already notified you that the call may be be recorded. There would be no need to reciprocate.
    .
    Originally posted by MataNui
    Agreed, but if you then wanted to use or share that recording with a third party or publically, you wouldn't be able to.

    So as long as you just want to use it to listen by yourself as a bedtime story, then fine.

    And your second bit is ridiculous. Just because they tell you that they are recording the call, doesn't mean you get to do it as well under that disclaimer!
    Survey Earnings 2017 - £163
    • pmduk
    • By pmduk 7th Dec 17, 2:43 PM
    • 7,718 Posts
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    pmduk
    So what happens when a customer service rep refuses you permission to record the call? They are quite entitled to of course.
    • Carrot007
    • By Carrot007 7th Dec 17, 2:48 PM
    • 755 Posts
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    Carrot007
    So what happens when a customer service rep refuses you permission to record the call? They are quite entitled to of course.
    Originally posted by pmduk
    Then the call ends and you don't buy something without being aware of the terms?
    • Carrot007
    • By Carrot007 7th Dec 17, 2:49 PM
    • 755 Posts
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    Carrot007
    And your second bit is ridiculous. Just because they tell you that they are recording the call, doesn't mean you get to do it as well under that disclaimer!
    Originally posted by marliepanda
    But they don't do that do they. They say the call may be recorded. This implies you can record it too.
    • theonlywayisup
    • By theonlywayisup 7th Dec 17, 2:51 PM
    • 11,435 Posts
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    theonlywayisup
    But they don't do that do they. They say the call may be recorded. This implies you can record it too.
    Originally posted by Carrot007
    How do you work that out?
    • Carrot007
    • By Carrot007 7th Dec 17, 2:53 PM
    • 755 Posts
    • 609 Thanks
    Carrot007
    How do you work that out?
    Originally posted by theonlywayisup
    We say that ambiguous terminology goes in the consumers way right?

    "This call may be recorded for quality control and blah blah blah".

    No implicit implication of who may record the call. Therefore the call can be recorded by either side.
    • pmduk
    • By pmduk 7th Dec 17, 3:13 PM
    • 7,718 Posts
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    pmduk
    You're wrong. Both parties have to be aware. The agent knows the company is recording the call, the purpose for their doing so and the company's data protection register status.

    You're offering none of that. I'd disconnect your call.
    • camelot1971
    • By camelot1971 7th Dec 17, 3:42 PM
    • 551 Posts
    • 861 Thanks
    camelot1971
    Classic piece of diversion away from the actual point there. Make another statement, which actually has no relevance to the point that was being made, but frame it as though the two are mutually exclusive. Textbook stuff, well done.
    Originally posted by ThumbRemote
    Thanks and glad to help!

    Firms record calls because, yes, they do sometimes get things wrong but they also record calls because some consumers lie through their teeth and then come crying to the forums to proclaim that horrible firm is bullying them.
    • theonlywayisup
    • By theonlywayisup 7th Dec 17, 3:51 PM
    • 11,435 Posts
    • 7,712 Thanks
    theonlywayisup
    We say that ambiguous terminology goes in the consumers way right?

    "This call may be recorded for quality control and blah blah blah".

    No implicit implication of who may record the call. Therefore the call can be recorded by either side.
    Originally posted by Carrot007
    Where do "we" say that?

    Most companies that record calls do it for training purposes. The "implication" that you say doesn't exist is that the company is telling the person on the other end (ie you) that the call is being recorded. The implication therefore is that the person on the other end (ie you) didn't realise/know the call was being recorded because it wasn't being recorded by the person on the other end (ie you).
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 7th Dec 17, 4:28 PM
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    unholyangel
    You're wrong. Both parties have to be aware. The agent knows the company is recording the call, the purpose for their doing so and the company's data protection register status.

    You're offering none of that. I'd disconnect your call.
    Originally posted by pmduk
    Only if you're intending to make the recording available to a third party.

    However I'd also point out that DPA doesn't cover companies data and it only covers personal data which can be used (either on its own or together with other data you have access to) to identify a living individual.

    I'm not quite sure the call would contain any personal data which would enable them to object to its processing.
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • MataNui
    • By MataNui 7th Dec 17, 4:38 PM
    • 884 Posts
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    MataNui
    You're wrong. Both parties have to be aware. The agent knows the company is recording the call, the purpose for their doing so and the company's data protection register status.

    You're offering none of that. I'd disconnect your call.
    Originally posted by pmduk
    No, you are wrong. You can record any call you are a party to. The requirement to inform the other party only applies to business. You cant publish a transcript of that call but you are entitled to record it for your own record.

    In fact this also applies to physical conversations as proven very publicly when 2 police officers decided to blatantly lie in a briefing to the media about the contents of a private meeting with an MP. Said MP sensibly recorded the meeting, a fact of which the officers were not aware at the time and when they complained later that they were outed got told plainly that it was perfectly legal.
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