Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • DiggerUK
    • By DiggerUK 6th Dec 17, 7:00 PM
    • 2,811Posts
    • 2,702Thanks
    DiggerUK
    On “sleaze and spivvery”
    • #1
    • 6th Dec 17, 7:00 PM
    On “sleaze and spivvery” 6th Dec 17 at 7:00 PM
    “According to the latest figures released by the PPF (Pension Protection Fund) Britain’s 5,794 final salary pension schemes have just 91.2 per cent of the funds they need to meet the promises made to their members. Just under a third are in surplus, so many of the 4,000 or so individual schemes running short look an awful lot worse than that. If the employers that sponsor those schemes hit the rocks so do their members’ retirements.”

    This article from The Independent, serves as a dire warning of how unsafe many retirement funds in Defined Benefit (DB) schemes really are. Successive governments have allowed this situation to get to the level of crisis we see.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/comment/pension-wolves-preying-on-steelworkers-highlight-scandal-of-cash-strapped-retirement-schemes-a8092716.html

    Best check out your DB Pension if you have one. Deficits in such pension schemes, including the notorious ‘pension holiday’ scam should be ended immediately..._

    Not as pretty, but: http://archive.is/OQsLD#selection-1025.0-1030.0
    Last edited by DiggerUK; 07-12-2017 at 7:04 PM. Reason: Independent link disappeared. Thanks go to Paul_Herring and wooly_wombat
    I am not now, nor have I ever been, a Financial Adviser.
    Forward, to the 'British Spring'
Page 2
    • Paul_Herring
    • By Paul_Herring 7th Dec 17, 4:01 PM
    • 6,196 Posts
    • 2,929 Thanks
    Paul_Herring
    That article now appears to have been pulled from The Independent website.
    Originally posted by woolly_wombat
    Not as pretty, but: http://archive.is/OQsLD#selection-1025.0-1030.0
    Conjugating the verb 'to be":
    -o I am humble -o You are attention seeking -o She is Nadine Dorries
    • cloud_dog
    • By cloud_dog 7th Dec 17, 5:03 PM
    • 3,311 Posts
    • 1,867 Thanks
    cloud_dog
    Successive governments have allowed this to happen. The truth is that surpluses are far from the norm. Current ‘strength’ of pension funds seems to be based on highly contentious valuations. On the figures in the articles linked to on this thread, a permanent 10% dive in the markets would cause enormous problems.
    Originally posted by DiggerUK
    I doubt it. If these DB schemes are anything like the one I am a member of then they do not have the majority of their exposure in equities.

    ....Not that there could be any potential issue with bonds in the future....
    Personal Responsibility - Sad but True

    Sometimes.... I am like a dog with a bone
    • woolly_wombat
    • By woolly_wombat 7th Dec 17, 5:27 PM
    • 502 Posts
    • 304 Thanks
    woolly_wombat
    My former employer's pension scheme is known to be in deficit, but that did not prevent the aforementioned former employer from acquiring another business with two indebted pension schemes, which they failed to disclose to the press or to their shareholders at the time.

    I'm hoping, selfishly, that they keep going for a while longer without falling into the PPF.

    If the worst does happen then I will be able to 'comfort' myself with the knowledge that it could have been even worse; I could so easily have transferred that particular deferred pension into the 'must-have' pension of it's day, my Equitable Life with(out)-profits pension!

    Eggs and baskets spring to mind, and I'm hoping that all my eggs don't turn out to be rotten 'uns.

    The DB pensions future does not look bright, but the PPF ensures that it is not as dark as it could have been.
    Last edited by woolly_wombat; 07-12-2017 at 5:55 PM.
    • Malthusian
    • By Malthusian 8th Dec 17, 9:36 AM
    • 3,466 Posts
    • 5,306 Thanks
    Malthusian
    If the worst does happen then I will be able to 'comfort' myself with the knowledge that it could have been even worse; I could so easily have transferred that particular deferred pension into the 'must-have' pension of it's day, my Equitable Life with(out)-profits pension!
    Originally posted by woolly_wombat
    Thank goodness that doesn't happen nowadays and people aren't being transferred out of DB schemes offering real guarantees into the pretend guarantees offered by With Profits.

    They're being transferred out of DB schemes into the pretend guarantees offered by PruFund instead.

    But it's OK because PruFund isn't With Profits. Apparently.
    • hugheskevi
    • By hugheskevi 12th Dec 17, 1:56 PM
    • 1,926 Posts
    • 2,335 Thanks
    hugheskevi
    Recalling my comment earlier in the thread:

    So put in perspective, it is reasonable to say something like
    Quote:
    Britain’s 5,794 final salary pension schemes have the highest funding level since 2014.
    I was very amused by a Professional Pensions headline today:

    DB funding soars to highest level since 2014
    • woolly_wombat
    • By woolly_wombat 12th Dec 17, 2:52 PM
    • 502 Posts
    • 304 Thanks
    woolly_wombat



    I was very amused by a Professional Pensions headline today:



    Originally posted by hugheskevi
    DB funding soars to highest level since 2014
    Flippin' hilarious considering what was also in your previous post
    Britain's 5,794 have just 91.2 per cent of the funds they need to meet s179 pension liabilities, ie, PPF-level benefits. This is considerably lower than what they have promised to their members.

    The schemes have a little under 70% of the assets they would need to meet full buy-out liabilities (what they have promised to members, valued on a gilt-yield basis)
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

2,793Posts Today

7,891Users online

Martin's Twitter