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  • FIRST POST
    • neopl
    • By neopl 6th Dec 17, 3:49 PM
    • 4Posts
    • 1Thanks
    neopl
    Parking dispute help. IPC. 1st appeal rejected
    • #1
    • 6th Dec 17, 3:49 PM
    Parking dispute help. IPC. 1st appeal rejected 6th Dec 17 at 3:49 PM
    I posted an update on the matter raised in this thread, please see post #6 from the 16th of Feb. (escalation to debt collection)

    Hello,

    I've got a fine for parking in front of my own flat because I forgot to display my parking permit. Of course I disputed the matter with using the template from this forum


    Unfortunately the appeal was rejected. Here i include the letter that they rejected
    I am the keeper of the vehicle and am aware of your purported 'parking charge'. The driver will not be identified. I require the following information so that I can make an informed decision:

    1. Who is the party that contracted with your company and are they the landowner?
    2. Is your charge based on damages for breach of contract? Answer yes or no.
    3. Please provide photos of the signs that you say were on site, which you contend formed a contract with the driver.
    4. Please provide all photographs taken of this vehicle.
    5. Please provide proof that the timing of any camera or timer used was synchronised with all other cameras and/or systems & machines.

    Do not send debt collector letters and do not add any costs, which would be a thinly-veiled attempt at 'double recovery'. I will not respond to debt collectors and to involve a third party would be a failure to mitigate your costs as well as deliberate and knowing misuse of my data.

    Should you obtain the registered keeper's data from the DVLA without reasonable cause (e.g. if you do not fully comply with the IPC Code of Practice in terms of signage at this site, as seems likely based on my research) please take this as formal notice that I reserve the right to sue your company and the landowner /principal, for a sum not less than £250 for any Data Protection Act breach. Your aggressive business practice and unwarranted threat of court for the ordinary matter of a driver using my car without causing any obstruction nor offence, has caused significant distress to me. I do not give you consent to process data relating to me or this vehicle.

    I deny liability for any sum at all and you must consider this letter a Section 10 Notice under the DPA. You are required to respond within 21 days. I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.
    I have no wish to waste my time with the IAS appeal as I hear it is a plain waste of time. Can anyone suggest what should I write to the parking company at this stage? The company in question is Vehicle Control Services Limited. Obviously there is no way I will pay 100 pounds for parking in front of my own house. For reference, below I include the rejection letter they sent me. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

    We refer to your appeal in respect of the above Charge Notice (CN) received on 27/11/2017.
    Having considered the points you have raised and reviewed our records, we are unable to accept your appeal. Our
    main reason(s) for this decision are as follows:
    The signs at the car park make it clear that the land is private property and that a charge of £100 will be levied if
    vehicles park outside of the Terms and Conditions displayed. The signs make it clear that a valid permit must be
    clearly displayed in the vehicle parked; on this occasion the above detailed vehicle was observed parked whilst it was
    not displaying a valid permit for the bay in which it was parked therefore you became liable for the Charge
    advertised.
    We note that you have declined to name the driver of your vehicle at the time of the incident in question. It is
    important that we make you aware that in this case we may pursue you as the registered keeper of the vehicle for the
    outstanding Charge, as per Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) .
    The notice sent to you clearly states: Please be warned: that if, after the period of 28 days beginning with the day
    after the Issue Date of this Notice, the amount of the unpaid Parking Charge specified in this Notice has not been
    paid in full and we do not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver, we will
    have the right to recover from the registered keeper, any unpaid balance of the Parking Charge. This Notice will be
    deemed to have been received by you on the second working day after the Issue Date stated above unless the
    contrary is proved.
    We appreciate that you have now provided us with a copy of your permit; however the evidence shows that the
    permit was not clearly displayed at the time the vehicle was parked. It was your responsibility to ensure that the
    permit was clearly displayed before leaving the vehicle parked.
    As members of the International Parking Community's (IPC) Accredited Operator Scheme, it is necessary for us to
    evidence to the IPC that we have relevant authority to undertake parking management at the site concerned and that
    our signs at that location are compliant in setting out the relevant terms and conditions of use. We will only answer
    pertinent points at this stage.
    06 December 2017

    We are contracted by the landowner to manage and enforce parking on their private land on their behalf. This site
    has been audited by the International Parking Community (IPC) and a copy of our authority has been provided to
    them as part of that audit process. However, whilst we maintain that we do, in fact, have the authority of the
    landowner to operate upon this site (being the principal in the contract); the existence of this document has no legal
    bearing on the contract formed with the motorist. (See Vehicle Control Services v HMRC [2013] EWCA Civ 186, para
    22 per Lewison LJ).
    Furthermore, as this is a commercially sensitive document, and is irrelevant to the issues at hand, it will not be
    provided at this stage. However a copy of the contract/authority is available to an Adjudicator, should an appeal be
    made to the Independent Appeals Service ( IAS) and if necessary, we will also provide a copy of the contract should
    a judge request it in court.
    We note your comments in relation to the amount of the Charge Notice; our charges are neither extravagant nor
    unconscionable and as such, are commercially justified and legitimately enforceable. This was supported by the
    Supreme Court's decision in the case of ParkingEye v Beavis ([2015].
    In recognition of the particular circumstances, and as a gesture of goodwill, we are prepared to offer you the
    opportunity to pay a reduced settlement charge of £20.00 provided that payment is received within our office by
    20/12/17 after which the amount payable will revert to £100.00.
    What you should do next - Either:
    1. Pay the Charge Notice (CN): In order to settle the Charge, the payment of £60 to reach us by 20/12/2017 or
    £100 to reach us by 03/01/2018 must be made. Failure to pay this charge within the stated times, may result in Debt
    Recovery Action being taken and further costs up to an additional £60 being incurred.
    Payments can be made online at .... by following the links for "Pay Now", or over the
    phone by calling 0845 226 9138 by using a valid Credit or Debit Card. (If paying by Credit Card a surcharge of £1.00
    will apply).
    OR:
    2. Appeal to the Independent Appeals Services (IAS): If you believe this decision is incorrect, you are entitled to
    appeal to the IAS. In order to appeal, the IAS will need the following information (which is also contained in the
    subject header of this correspondence).
    Notice Serial No: .....
    Vehicle Registration Mark: .....
    Appeals must be submitted to the IAS within 21 days of the date of this correspondence. Please visit .....
    for full details on how to submit an appeal online.
    It is important you note that if you do make an appeal to the IAS, the reduced charge offered above will no longer
    apply. You should also be aware that if a payment is made prior to an appeal being made to, or adjudicated by, the
    IAS AND this is accepted as Full and Final settlement against the CN, the appeal will automatically be dismissed and
    the matter will be deemed closed. Should you appeal to the IAS and it is unsuccessful, the full amount outstanding
    (£100) against the CN will be pursued.
    It is important we also highlight that no further appeals will be accepted at this office; any such appeal must be
    made to the IAS.
    Please also note that further costs may be incurred should it be necessary for us to subsequently recover any
    outstanding charge using debt recovery and/or court action.
    Last edited by neopl; 16-02-2018 at 2:09 PM.
Page 1
    • Redx
    • By Redx 6th Dec 17, 3:54 PM
    • 17,325 Posts
    • 21,713 Thanks
    Redx
    • #2
    • 6th Dec 17, 3:54 PM
    • #2
    • 6th Dec 17, 3:54 PM
    just IGNORE them from now on

    come back is VCS or BW LEGAL issue an LBC or an MCOL within the next 6 years

    meanwhile , complain to the MA like others on here like daniel san and hairray have done
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 6th Dec 17, 3:58 PM
    • 40,939 Posts
    • 81,719 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #3
    • 6th Dec 17, 3:58 PM
    • #3
    • 6th Dec 17, 3:58 PM
    Do you own or rent the parking space.
    If the former you should complain to the MA and Trading Standards that an unregulated company is operating a for profit business on your land.
    If the latter, what does your lease/AST say about parking?
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 6th Dec 17, 4:40 PM
    • 6,945 Posts
    • 9,039 Thanks
    beamerguy
    • #4
    • 6th Dec 17, 4:40 PM
    • #4
    • 6th Dec 17, 4:40 PM
    A failed appeal to VCS can only be expected as they
    are members of the scam club IPC/IAS set up by the
    notorious Gladstones Solicitors.

    Oddly enough, VCS do not actually use Gladstones when
    it comes to court, no doubt they know of their incompetence

    And talking of incompetence, VCS prefer to use a legal called
    BWLegal and if you want to see how they handle cases,
    read this thread .......

    BWLegal - the list of failures growing
    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5672664&highlight=bwlegal

    It's all really very sad (for them) and for us it's a hoot
    and a giggle.

    You have a right to park in your own space without hinderence
    from an outside contractor and that is just what a judge will decide

    Simply wait now, you will get debt collector letters from idiots
    which you ignore because they can do NOTHING, ZERO, ZILCH

    If BWLegal do decide to continue, they must of course
    now comply to the new protocol as from 1st Oct 2017
    Of late, it seems BWLegal are having a real struggle with this

    Fear not, just come back here
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 6th Dec 17, 4:54 PM
    • 1,704 Posts
    • 1,915 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    • #5
    • 6th Dec 17, 4:54 PM
    • #5
    • 6th Dec 17, 4:54 PM
    Please answer fruitcakes questions. They!!!8217;re key
    • neopl
    • By neopl 16th Feb 18, 2:02 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    neopl
    • #6
    • 16th Feb 18, 2:02 PM
    • #6
    • 16th Feb 18, 2:02 PM
    Hello Everyone,
    Many thanks for your replies so far. Unfortunately as expected, the saga continues. I ignored the IPC and they refereed me to a debt collecting firm ZZPS. ZZPS are threatening court action by passing this case to QDR Solicitors Limited, and negative impact on credit score. I cannot just not afford to have my credit score affected. Just as a reminder, I was parked in private land in front of my row of flats. I have a permit to park for that area, I just forgot to display it. The notice in the car park states that anyone not displaying parking permit is liable. Below, I include the threatening letter sent to me by the ZZPS debt collection agency. I gather that I should just ignore it? To be fair I do not want this to be dragging after me for years. Is there a way to settle the matter? I don't mind going to court, as I trust a judge will put the case in my favor... or so I hope..... perhaps keep pestering Vehicle services limited stating that I won't pay without court action? Any advice much appreciated. Thank you!

    Here is the letter ZZPS sent me:
    https : // i . imgur . com / APGmAH7 . jpg

    just remove the spaces, the forum does not allow me to post links...
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 16th Feb 18, 2:27 PM
    • 34,521 Posts
    • 18,488 Thanks
    Quentin
    • #7
    • 16th Feb 18, 2:27 PM
    • #7
    • 16th Feb 18, 2:27 PM
    Creditors have 6 years to start legal proceedings.

    The only way to nip this in the bud now is to pay it off. Obviously not recommended

    No need to post up debt collectors letters!

    You can only get your credit score affected by this if you get a court claim and completely ignore it or lose in court and don't pay the court order within a month of the hearing.

    The advice here is ignore everything now except court correspondence or a letter before court action
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 16th Feb 18, 2:29 PM
    • 5,668 Posts
    • 4,374 Thanks
    KeithP
    • #8
    • 16th Feb 18, 2:29 PM
    • #8
    • 16th Feb 18, 2:29 PM
    https: //i.imgur.com/APGmAH7.jpg

    One blank is all that is needed to kill a link. Help others to help you.

    https://i.imgur.com/APGmAH7.jpg

    Just a debt collector's letter. Nothing more.

    There is no way anything can affect your credit score until a court case has taken place, and you have lost it, and you have refused to pay whatever the court says.

    As you know, you should just ignore it.
    Anything else will send signals that you are hooked and wiggling trying to get off the hook.
    This will increase their interest in you.
    .
    • Ralph-y
    • By Ralph-y 16th Feb 18, 2:38 PM
    • 2,510 Posts
    • 3,100 Thanks
    Ralph-y
    • #9
    • 16th Feb 18, 2:38 PM
    • #9
    • 16th Feb 18, 2:38 PM
    as per an earlier post

    "Do you own or rent the parking space.
    If the former you should complain to the MA and Trading Standards that an unregulated company is operating a for profit business on your land.
    If the latter, what does your lease/AST say about parking?"

    did you complain? did you find out about the lease ?

    the wording is all important for us to help you make up your mind how to deal with this matter ......

    while you are finding the above

    please take the time to watch our MP's debating this industry ...

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41



    Ralph
    • neopl
    • By neopl 16th Feb 18, 2:39 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    neopl
    That's great, thanks. What in the event of me moving house and not getting court correspondence? Should I inform ZZPS of my new address? I do plan on moving within a year so this is a very important question.

    And were there no cases of individuals contacting debt collectors to make the statement that they do not intend to pay without court action? I suppose, they won't progress it to a court action if they know they have little chance of winning... I just hate having unfinished business like this hanging over me.
    • neopl
    • By neopl 16th Feb 18, 2:44 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    neopl
    as per an earlier post

    "Do you own or rent the parking space.
    If the former you should complain to the MA and Trading Standards that an unregulated company is operating a for profit business on your land.
    If the latter, what does your lease/AST say about parking?"

    did you complain? did you find out about the lease ?

    the wording is all important for us to help you make up your mind how to deal with this matter ......

    while you are finding the above

    please take the time to watch our MP's debating this industry ...

    Ralph
    Originally posted by Ralph-y
    My apologies for not explaining this first, here are my circumstances

    I rent a house from a private landlord, along the house is a car park that is owned by a private entity (not my landlord). Vehicle Control Services is contracted to monitor the parking spaces. Every person living on my street is given a free parking permit to be able to park in this car park. I forgot to display this permit on one occasion.

    I did not complain as I'm not too sure to whom I could. I'm sure the owner of the car park won't care about a complaint. Technically, I did not display the parking permit as instructed... the sign posts are plentiful and visible, it is just ridiculous that I would be pursed for not doing so even after explaining (in my unsuccessful appeal to VCS) that I live on that street and actually have a permit... just did not displayed it that one day...
    Last edited by neopl; 16-02-2018 at 2:55 PM.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 16th Feb 18, 3:24 PM
    • 34,521 Posts
    • 18,488 Thanks
    Quentin
    That's great, thanks. What in the event of me moving house and not getting court correspondence? Should I inform ZZPS of my new address? I do plan on moving within a year so this is a very important question.

    And were there no cases of individuals contacting debt collectors to make the statement that they do not intend to pay without court action? I suppose, they won't progress it to a court action if they know they have little chance of winning... I just hate having unfinished business like this hanging over me.
    Originally posted by neopl
    Debt collectors don't do court!

    If you move house then inform the PPC.

    Don't contact the debt collectors
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 16th Feb 18, 3:48 PM
    • 6,945 Posts
    • 9,039 Thanks
    beamerguy
    That's great, thanks. What in the event of me moving house and not getting court correspondence? Should I inform ZZPS of my new address? I do plan on moving within a year so this is a very important question.

    And were there no cases of individuals contacting debt collectors to make the statement that they do not intend to pay without court action? I suppose, they won't progress it to a court action if they know they have little chance of winning... I just hate having unfinished business like this hanging over me.
    Originally posted by neopl
    No point in wasting your time contacting ZZPS, they
    are just low life debt collectors and powerless.

    ZZPS and QDR Solicitors are the low life part of
    Wright Hassall commonly called Whopla because they
    screwed up a "pretend" fake" POPLA set up by the
    desert dwelling BPA.

    VCS are on very shaky ground with a residential case ....
    as the bods they used before, BWLegal found out to
    their cost ....... Will the name of Wright Hassall be
    degraded again ???

    When you move, if you have not heard anything, simply
    inform the residential scammer and get confirmation
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
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