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  • FIRST POST
    • SammyJ87
    • By SammyJ87 6th Dec 17, 3:05 PM
    • 5Posts
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    SammyJ87
    Landlord wants to stop the lift
    • #1
    • 6th Dec 17, 3:05 PM
    Landlord wants to stop the lift 6th Dec 17 at 3:05 PM
    Hi,
    We live in a block of 6 flats, of which the landlord owns 5. Myself, partner and 6 month old live on the top floor, and a few months ago our landlord sent us (and the other flats) an email saying he wants to stop the lift and what all of our thoughts were. Now, as far as I've been told, myself and 4 flats have said we don't want it stopped, and now we have had a message stating he will be stopping the lift at the end of the month.

    His reason was that it was expensive to run. I have checked the contract and it states he's supposed to keep all community floors, stairways ect well maintained, but doesn't say anywhere about a lift.

    So my question is, can I do anything to stop him from doing this? It's going to make shopping / buying furniture, taking the baby out ect such hard work. Including the fact that we are hoping to move some point next year, which includes moving a sofa, bed, chest of drawers ect down three flights of stairs. Any help will be appreciated. Thankyou
Page 1
    • Le_Kirk
    • By Le_Kirk 6th Dec 17, 4:02 PM
    • 2,220 Posts
    • 1,130 Thanks
    Le_Kirk
    • #2
    • 6th Dec 17, 4:02 PM
    • #2
    • 6th Dec 17, 4:02 PM
    Maybe ask a board guide to move this to the House buying, Renting and Selling sub-forum by sending a PM to either Nile, silvercar or Cornucopia
    • flashg67
    • By flashg67 6th Dec 17, 8:11 PM
    • 2,300 Posts
    • 1,507 Thanks
    flashg67
    • #3
    • 6th Dec 17, 8:11 PM
    • #3
    • 6th Dec 17, 8:11 PM
    Can't advise on the legal position, but having 5 tenants give notice (If you are able) might make him rethink (unless that's his plan to get rid of you all). LL sounds like a barm pot if you ask me. What did he expect buying 5 flats anyway?

    Does the 6th person own their flat and does the LL have the right to inconvenience someone who is not his tenant?
    • SammyJ87
    • By SammyJ87 7th Dec 17, 3:38 PM
    • 5 Posts
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    SammyJ87
    • #4
    • 7th Dec 17, 3:38 PM
    • #4
    • 7th Dec 17, 3:38 PM
    Hi, yeah I tried to put the post in a different area but it wouldnt let me have a new thread :/ Will give it a go.
    And yes he is! He is very much a cheap skate and will cut costs where ever he can, but I dont know about what the tenants think that own their flat.
    Last edited by SammyJ87; 07-12-2017 at 4:00 PM. Reason: Wanted to add something
    • Cornucopia
    • By Cornucopia 7th Dec 17, 5:06 PM
    • 9,522 Posts
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    Cornucopia
    • #5
    • 7th Dec 17, 5:06 PM
    • #5
    • 7th Dec 17, 5:06 PM
    This thread has been moved to seek a better response.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Phones & TV, Techie Stuff, In My Home,
    The Money Savers Arms and Food Shopping boards. I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge threads there. Any views (especially those on the UK TV Licence) are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com.

    Board guides are not moderators. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 7th Dec 17, 5:09 PM
    • 1,315 Posts
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    Comms69
    • #6
    • 7th Dec 17, 5:09 PM
    • #6
    • 7th Dec 17, 5:09 PM
    Who owns the freehold? That's really the starting point - it sounds like the LL does.
    • SammyJ87
    • By SammyJ87 7th Dec 17, 5:33 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    SammyJ87
    • #7
    • 7th Dec 17, 5:33 PM
    • #7
    • 7th Dec 17, 5:33 PM
    Yes he does sadly
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 7th Dec 17, 5:47 PM
    • 15,759 Posts
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    AdrianC
    • #8
    • 7th Dec 17, 5:47 PM
    • #8
    • 7th Dec 17, 5:47 PM
    So the fact that he's your landlord isn't really the issue - it's the building freeholder that's making the decision.

    "Top floor" in a six-flat building is, what, second floor...? Lifts ARE expensive things to run - there's various legal requirements wrapped up in them. Would you pay an extra £50-100/mo on your rent to cover your flat's share of the costs? Would your neighbours?
    • thelem
    • By thelem 7th Dec 17, 5:53 PM
    • 626 Posts
    • 434 Thanks
    thelem
    • #9
    • 7th Dec 17, 5:53 PM
    • #9
    • 7th Dec 17, 5:53 PM
    Do you mean Landlord (i.e. the person you are renting your flat from for a monthly fee) or Freeholder (i.e. the person who owns the building and you have a circa 100 year lease from)? The answers are very different.

    Likewise, are the other flats rented by this Landlord, or owned by other people on a Leasehold basis?
    Note: Unless otherwise stated, my property related posts refer to England & Wales. Please make sure you state if you are discussing Scotland or elsewhere as laws differ.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 7th Dec 17, 7:00 PM
    • 42,330 Posts
    • 49,171 Thanks
    G_M
    * are you a leaseholder or tenanant?

    * have you ever seen the lease for the property (not your tenancy agreement which you say does not mention a lift)? Does the lease mention a lift?

    * is the 6th occupant a leaseholder or tenant?

    * have they seen their lease? Does it mention a lift?

    * if a lift is mentioned in any of the leases (as opposed to tenanies) then the freeholder cannot remove the lift.

    * even if no mention is made of a lift in either the tenancy agreement or leases, it could well be argued that a lift was implicitly included in the tenancy contract, since it was thre when the contract was formed, and has remained there for some time.

    * but a legal battle is not to be taken lightly. Depending on the type of tenancy (fixed term, periodic) it may be simpler to give notice.
    • SammyJ87
    • By SammyJ87 7th Dec 17, 7:46 PM
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    • 0 Thanks
    SammyJ87
    The top flat is the 3rd floor (the ground floor is just a corridor), we're the tenants. It states in the contract that the landlord is the sole owner of the leasehold or free hold interest in the property. As far as I'm aware the one other flat has bought the flat outright and has a mortgage but I haven't seen the lease and never asked if anyone else has. I would've said the cost of the lift is on top of the rent anyway, so wouldn't it be fair to say that the rent should be decreased if he stopping it? It does say in the contract that the landlords obligations are to pay all assessments and outgoings in respect of the property, wouldn't that include the lift too? Sorry, I'm new to this type of thing. We wouldn't of even rented the property if we knew he'd be stopping the lift in the future. Hope this answers all the questions
    • patman99
    • By patman99 7th Dec 17, 10:32 PM
    • 8,121 Posts
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    patman99
    Shame there isn't a wheelchair user living in the block. The ll would have no choice but to keep the lift running until such time as the wheelchair user decided to move.
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    • sevenhills
    • By sevenhills 7th Dec 17, 10:49 PM
    • 758 Posts
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    sevenhills
    The first place to ring would be the local fire station, ask them about fire regulations.
    The Equality Act 2010 - so no disabled person would be able to visit/live in the flats, because someone wants to save some money. Definitely against that law.

    • IAmWales
    • By IAmWales 7th Dec 17, 10:58 PM
    • 1,864 Posts
    • 3,874 Thanks
    IAmWales
    The first place to ring would be the local fire station, ask them about fire regulations.
    The Equality Act 2010 - so no disabled person would be able to visit/live in the flats, because someone wants to save some money. Definitely against that law.
    Originally posted by sevenhills
    There's no requirement for flats to have a lift so disabled people can visit! There's not even an obligation on a LL to install a lift so a disabled can live there, though it's more likely that they would be obliged to continue operating it if a disabled resident was already there. The key to disability adjustments is reasonableness, and a LL would not be expected to incur a disproportionate level of cost to accomodate a prospective tenant or visitor.

    I don't know about any H&S Regs, but in terms of the EqAct it is definitely not against the law to not have an operating lift.
    • sevenhills
    • By sevenhills 7th Dec 17, 11:03 PM
    • 758 Posts
    • 269 Thanks
    sevenhills
    The key to disability adjustments is reasonableness, and a LL would not be expected to incur a disproportionate level of cost to accomodate a prospective tenant or visitor.
    Originally posted by IAmWales
    It would not be a reasonable cost to retrospectively fit a lift, it is reasonable to maintain a lift that is already there.

    • sevenhills
    • By sevenhills 7th Dec 17, 11:05 PM
    • 758 Posts
    • 269 Thanks
    sevenhills
    I don't know about any H&S Regs, but in terms of the EqAct it is definitely not against the law to not have an operating lift.
    Originally posted by IAmWales
    Ringing the fire service for advise is free, so it would be an easy thing to try first.

    • IAmWales
    • By IAmWales 7th Dec 17, 11:11 PM
    • 1,864 Posts
    • 3,874 Thanks
    IAmWales
    It would not be a reasonable cost to retrospectively fit a lift, it is reasonable to maintain a lift that is already there.
    Originally posted by sevenhills
    Do you have a citation for your assertion, or is this your opinion? How do you suggest the OP uses your facts/ opinion given that they are not disabled?

    I suggest you do more research into the EqAct before misinterpreting it. It's of no use to the OP.
    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 7th Dec 17, 11:24 PM
    • 6,286 Posts
    • 6,066 Thanks
    davidmcn
    The first place to ring would be the local fire station, ask them about fire regulations.
    Originally posted by sevenhills
    What's the relevance of fire regulations? Any evacuation plan should assume the lift is out of action anyway.
    • Alderbank
    • By Alderbank 7th Dec 17, 11:48 PM
    • 95 Posts
    • 93 Thanks
    Alderbank
    In some circumstances very high rise blocks of flats require special firefighters' lifts. This might be at the back of IAmWales's mind, but these regulations are far removed from the block discussed here.
    I don't think the fire service will be your allies for this. They strongly advise against using lifts in a fire situation. The lift might lose power and no-one wants to be trapped inside a sealed metal box in a fire. In fact the lift should have warnings to use the stairs and not the lift in an emergency.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 8th Dec 17, 2:44 AM
    • 42,330 Posts
    • 49,171 Thanks
    G_M
    How on earth has this thread got side-tracked onto the fire service?

    Sammy you have several possible courses to follow

    1) the tenancy agreement and its implied terms. You could argue this in court - but then probably receive a S21 Notice

    2) the leases - you need to obtain and read. Either ask the resident leaseholder and/or pay the land registry for a copy. If the leases stipulate a lift, the freeholder cannot remove the lift

    3) joint action. Would the LL reconsider if all his tenants walked?

    4) joint action. Would the LL reconsider if all his tenants offered to pay an increased rent?

    5) find another tenancy
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