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  • FIRST POST
    • chica0208
    • By chica0208 6th Dec 17, 1:59 PM
    • 13Posts
    • 14Thanks
    chica0208
    BW Legal "Final Notice" - Business Park - RK not driver
    • #1
    • 6th Dec 17, 1:59 PM
    BW Legal "Final Notice" - Business Park - RK not driver 6th Dec 17 at 1:59 PM
    Hello, me again! I have successfully defended 3 BPA 'fines' in the past but this one is from VCS, an IPC member, so unsurprisingly is proving to be more of a headache...!

    So we originally put in an appeal, and then appealed to IAS too, with the thinking that, if this did ever get to court, it would look better that we were taking it seriously, trying to comply, blah blah blah. Obviously rejected given the kangaroo nature of the IAS appeals process.

    Long story short - husband's vehicle - with him and colleagues in it - was driven to a Business Park in Marlow - no visitor spaces available so one of them parked nearby on the business park. Apparently permit holders only so of course my husband (the registered keeper) received a ticket in the post. Nobody can remember who actually parked the vehicle or who was driving that day as they all drive each other's cars at times (and this was in September 2016!). (NB: We were going on holiday very early the next morning, I was newly pregnant and hormonal and worrying about everything so asked my husband not to drive that day so he wouldn't be too tired the following morning - obviously we can't prove any of this except for the early flight (plane ticket) so haven't mentioned it thus far!)

    The NTK wasn't POFA-compliant, and was received too late, so we appealed on the basis of no keeper liability, however VCS stated that they weren't relying on POFA and were using the assumption that the registered keeper is also the driver unless he/she can prove otherwise. Pretty standard VCS practice I believe.

    So, after a failed IAS appeal, nothing happened... then last month we received a 'First Letter' from BW Legal (in which they claimed that we had never even appealed). We responded correcting them and stating that the registered keeper was not the driver and there was no keeper liability, cited Elliott vs. Loake, also quoted Henry Greenslade, assumption can't be relied upon in court, etc etc.... A few weeks later and we have now received a "Final Notice" from BW Legal in which they say "we are yet to receive a response to the First Letter"! (And yes we posted with proof of postage! Didn't want to use their online account option as we don't want to give them any telephone numbers and receive phone calls hassling us!)

    So, at this stage my questions are:

    (1) should we respond to this Final Notice with the same/similar letter as before? Presumably this 'final notice' is still NOT a letter before court?

    (2) have there been any success stories of people complaining to business park landowners? E.g. husband and colleagues had legitimate work reason to be there, no visitor parking available, makes it very difficult to conduct business if this is how they behave etc etc? We hadn't bothered to complain to the landowner because I've seen many successful complaints to retail parks but can't track any down for business parks? Not sure if the complaint is less likely to be taken seriously as they're not losing 'cash' (customers) as such? As I said, we haven't done this yet but happy to do so now if wise people on here think it could still help!

    (3) I'm sure I read somewhere on here that BW Legal should be giving us a specific name of somebody to contact rather than just signing off "BW Legal" (as they have been doing) - is this right or have I entirely made this up?!

    (4) We have always relied on the 'not driving on that day' point but am concerned that if this does go to court, this in itself is a fairly small defence. Should we go for more? We did use the original IPC appeal letter from this forum but haven't gone into much detail on these other points since. Ultimately we can't PROVE that my husband didn't park the car, although he is under no obligation to state who did, but equally BW Legal / VCS can't prove he was (they only have photos of the parked, empty vehicle).

    I just don't know if BW Legal are being so bull-minded and just trying to pursue some of these claims without considering them fully - sometimes I think "no, they'll never take this to court as they can't prove who the driver was" but then sometimes I worry and think they'll see this all the way through and it's a real hassle to have to defend this in court!

    Any advice, thoughts or previous experience on the above situation/questions would be appreciated! Thanks in advance.
Page 1
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 6th Dec 17, 2:05 PM
    • 33,486 Posts
    • 17,366 Thanks
    Quentin
    • #2
    • 6th Dec 17, 2:05 PM
    • #2
    • 6th Dec 17, 2:05 PM
    Cross your bridges when you get to them!


    You are now in the debt collector stage - ignore debt collecting letters


    If you get a lbcca or court correspondence then come back for advice on how to deal with them (#2 in newbies faq thread)
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 6th Dec 17, 4:59 PM
    • 1,149 Posts
    • 1,173 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    • #3
    • 6th Dec 17, 4:59 PM
    • #3
    • 6th Dec 17, 4:59 PM
    Haven’t you worked out they’re just templates? There’s no work on them. They don’t read anything. It’s cheaper not to.
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