Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • Impius
    • By Impius 6th Dec 17, 10:04 AM
    • 58Posts
    • 10Thanks
    Impius
    Employer not updating my tax code/financial hardship
    • #1
    • 6th Dec 17, 10:04 AM
    Employer not updating my tax code/financial hardship 6th Dec 17 at 10:04 AM
    Looking for some advice please guys. I joined a new employer on 1st November this year and brought with me a P45 that had an incorrect tax code of K242 from a previous employer which had resulted in a hefty overpayment of tax. I had called HRMC prior to starting at the new employer, they corrected the code and advised to call them again a couple of weeks in to the new employment with my company's PAYE reference and they would issue the company with a tax code notice.

    I advised my employer on the first day of my employment of the issue and asked for their PAYE reference number. It took 9 days for the payroll lady to send it through. Once I had it, I called HRMC who said they had issued the new employer with a tax code notice, I received my paper version a couple of days later. After I had received the paper version, I sent payroll an email asking if the code had been received electronically, they didn't respond until 20th November saying it hadn't and we had now missed the deadline for the November pay run which meant I wouldn't be receiving my tax overpayment back and would be subject to another overpayment due to the K code still being in place. On that day, I still called HRMC to get another code notice sent out.

    Not wishing to be an !!!! in my first month, I bit my tongue and managed to borrow some money in an attempt keep my head above water until the December pay run. When payroll emailed on the 20th November to advised they hadn't received the code, they told me to call HRMC on the 6th December to chase again. I decided I wasn't prepared to wait until the 6th and called after pay day on the 30th November and HRMC advised they would re-issue the notice and also advised they could fax it to my employer. I advised payroll of this and asked for the fax number without a response.

    Obviously we are now into December and I started getting worried about how close we are getting to the pay run given we get paid early this month (22nd), so I contacted payroll again and asked if I could get HRMC to fax the code so we can ensure we had it sorted in time. They finally gave me the fax number so I called HRMC, typically their phone lines were down until yesterday afternoon, so the fax is being sent this morning. During the day yesterday, the HR Manager came up to me after I had copied her in to some emails with Payroll saying that I needed to be sympathetic to them and how busy they are etc. and that 'there are probably hundreds of other people in the company with the same problem.' Not particularly helpful when you are heavily in debt with Christmas looming and just trying to get people to do their jobs to fix a problem that is out of your control for the most part. The HR Manager then let slip that payroll for December has already been run so it would seem I again will not receive my rebate and will be overtaxed again. What I can't understand is why the payroll lady told me to call HRMC on the 6th December if she knew she was running payroll before then?

    This morning I spoke to HRMC who confirmed the fax will go out this morning. The also confirmed that they sent electronic tax code notices on the 9th, 20th, 26th, 29th and 6th December. They also advised that employers have access to a Helpline which they can call to confirm employees' tax codes. If this is the case, why is my payroll department sitting waiting for 5 electronic notices to not be delivered (clearly an issue with their system) when an employee has raised an issue that is causing them financial hardship, that can seemingly be solved with a phone call?

    The point to all this really is that I'm trying to understand where the fault lies here and what I can do about it. I currently don't have a car to get to work and, whilst I appreciate it's not my employer's duty to get me to and from work, I was going to use the tax rebate that the HRMC have advised I'll get once the correct code is used to buy a vehicle. As a result I've had to rent a car from 1st November through to 21st December (currently but now looks like I will need to continue until the January pay day assuming we get it sorted then!), which isn't a cheap thing to do! From researching, I believe the employer has a legal requirement to pay the employee using the most current tax code issued by HRMC, but I can't find anything official confirming this. I don't believe my employer has made a reasonable effort to ascertain the correct code despite me advising of the issue on my first day. They have a known issue with not receiving the codes electronically, didn't offer up the fax number when I asked and could have, very easily I find out, just have called the HRMC to get the correct code in time for the December pay run. I appreciate that most people will just say that I should think of it like a savings account and I know I will get it back eventually, but it has caused a lot of problems, unnecessary additional expenditure in the form of needing to rent a vehicle and I'm now on sleeping tablets due to the stress of it all.

    I feel very aggrieved that I've raised an issue, done everything I can from my side to sort it but my new employer is not supporting me or fulfilling their duty to pay the correct tax. I've been made to feel like I'm bothering the payroll lady but I've been extremely respectful in all of my communications with her and tried to keep from pestering where possible. Is there any come back here or do I just have to wait until the payroll lady decides to pick up the phone to the HRMC or receives the fax. At the minute I am struggling not to just walk out! Any help/advice gratefully received.
    Last edited by Impius; 06-12-2017 at 10:47 AM. Reason: Spelling
Page 1
    • 00ec25
    • By 00ec25 6th Dec 17, 10:46 AM
    • 5,555 Posts
    • 4,941 Thanks
    00ec25
    • #2
    • 6th Dec 17, 10:46 AM
    • #2
    • 6th Dec 17, 10:46 AM
    your options are:
    - to resign and find a different job
    - establish a reputation for yourself with payroll as being "difficult"
    - wait for payroll to catch up

    trying to argue that they should foot your cash flow and shortage problems is going to get you no where
    • kazwookie
    • By kazwookie 6th Dec 17, 10:53 AM
    • 9,357 Posts
    • 118,612 Thanks
    kazwookie
    • #3
    • 6th Dec 17, 10:53 AM
    • #3
    • 6th Dec 17, 10:53 AM
    Ring HMRC and see if they will do a credit direct to your bank account and reissue another tax code to your company
    Sun, Sea
    • spadoosh
    • By spadoosh 6th Dec 17, 10:58 AM
    • 4,664 Posts
    • 6,111 Thanks
    spadoosh
    • #4
    • 6th Dec 17, 10:58 AM
    • #4
    • 6th Dec 17, 10:58 AM
    I wouldnt reply to you asking for a fax number either. Faxes in 2017?!

    Im first inclined to ask why you had an incorrect tax code in the first place and am immediately thinking all the problems stem from that.

    It seems like payroll did their job correctly which is why you suggest youre paying too much. In that they entered figures from P45. HMRC havent sent them updated tax codes they cant update your tax code until they receive that document.

    Its not for your employer to ascertain the correct code. They simply follow instruction. Until they get that instruction they can not do anything.

    This is your tax code and your problem. You wouldnt ask your employer to sort out your banking details would you? You just give them the bank details and they pay you, no having to ring your bank to make sure the account is yours and is the right type of account for you. Tax codes dont really work that differently.

    FYI HMRC is not renown for being the most efficient and accurate organisation. In fact the consesnus i get is that its the exact opposite.
    Don't be angry!
    • Impius
    • By Impius 6th Dec 17, 11:07 AM
    • 58 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    Impius
    • #5
    • 6th Dec 17, 11:07 AM
    • #5
    • 6th Dec 17, 11:07 AM
    I agree with you that itís my tax and my problem but if HRMC have sent the code 5 times and my employerís payroll system isnít receiving it, what else am I to do? Itís my employerís responsibility to use the tax code as issued, if their system is unable to receive it, surely the fault lies with them to fix it or ascertain the code by some other means (I.e. by calling HRMC), given that Iíve raised the issue and made them aware of it.

    Surely the reason behind the incorrect code coming from my previous employer is irrelevant. HRMC have corrected it and tried to advise my employer of the correct code. I was aggrieved but fine with missing out on November but to miss it for a second month seems unfair.

    Iím not suggesting the company foot the bill, the tax return comprises money from both my old and new employer, Iím asking if there is any comeback from them not making reasonable efforts to use the correct tax code to prevent continued overpayment when theyíve been made aware of an issue.
    • purdyoaten2
    • By purdyoaten2 6th Dec 17, 11:23 AM
    • 722 Posts
    • 324 Thanks
    purdyoaten2
    • #6
    • 6th Dec 17, 11:23 AM
    • #6
    • 6th Dec 17, 11:23 AM

    It seems like payroll did their job correctly which is why you suggest youre paying too much. In that they entered figures from P45. HMRC havent sent them updated tax codes they cant update your tax code until they receive that document.


    FYI HMRC is not renown for being the most efficient and accurate organisation. In fact the consesnus i get is that its the exact opposite.
    Originally posted by spadoosh
    This morning I spoke to HRMC who confirmed the fax will go out this morning. The also confirmed that they sent electronic tax code notices on the 9th, 20th, 26th, 29th and 6th December.

    It looks to me that the employer is not accessing e-mails from HMRC or logging in to the HMRC site as instructed in those e-mails.

    What more could HMRC have done in this instance having issued the code five times?
    purdyoaten lost his password
    • spadoosh
    • By spadoosh 6th Dec 17, 11:37 AM
    • 4,664 Posts
    • 6,111 Thanks
    spadoosh
    • #7
    • 6th Dec 17, 11:37 AM
    • #7
    • 6th Dec 17, 11:37 AM
    I agree with you that itís my tax and my problem but if HRMC have sent the code 5 times and my employerís payroll system isnít receiving it, what else am I to do? Itís my employerís responsibility to use the tax code as issued, if their system is unable to receive it, surely the fault lies with them to fix it or ascertain the code by some other means (I.e. by calling HRMC), given that Iíve raised the issue and made them aware of it.

    Surely the reason behind the incorrect code coming from my previous employer is irrelevant. HRMC have corrected it and tried to advise my employer of the correct code. I was aggrieved but fine with missing out on November but to miss it for a second month seems unfair.

    Iím not suggesting the company foot the bill, the tax return comprises money from both my old and new employer, Iím asking if there is any comeback from them not making reasonable efforts to use the correct tax code to prevent continued overpayment when theyíve been made aware of an issue.
    Originally posted by Impius
    Not really.

    You can try following employee complaints procedure and put in a complaint against the department/person.

    You can tell HMRC that you believe they are making errors in applying PAYE. They might (might to the extent that an asteroid might land on us today) get in trouble but in all reality a tax code going missing for 2 pays isnt a huge problem in terms of PAYE (i get it might be for you)


    From start to now is 36 days. From the last time HMRC said they would sort it out is 6 days. Youve not allowed enough time i dont think for any of this to happen.

    Youre also making the assumption you wont get it this month because the HR manager let slip. I can make changes to payroll right up until it leaves the bank, ill tell people cut off dates though because its much easier doing in bulk than having to change information as and when it arrives.
    Don't be angry!
    • Moneyineptitude
    • By Moneyineptitude 6th Dec 17, 11:38 AM
    • 18,889 Posts
    • 10,114 Thanks
    Moneyineptitude
    • #8
    • 6th Dec 17, 11:38 AM
    • #8
    • 6th Dec 17, 11:38 AM
    I wouldnt reply to you asking for a fax number either. Faxes in 2017?!
    Originally posted by spadoosh
    Hard to fathom any firm still using such ancient technology when an electronic alternative is so easily available (and far less costly)...
    • spadoosh
    • By spadoosh 6th Dec 17, 11:41 AM
    • 4,664 Posts
    • 6,111 Thanks
    spadoosh
    • #9
    • 6th Dec 17, 11:41 AM
    • #9
    • 6th Dec 17, 11:41 AM
    This morning I spoke to HRMC who confirmed the fax will go out this morning. The also confirmed that they sent electronic tax code notices on the 9th, 20th, 26th, 29th and 6th December.

    It looks to me that the employer is not accessing e-mails from HMRC or logging in to the HMRC site as instructed in those e-mails.

    What more could HMRC have done in this instance having issued the code five times?
    Originally posted by purdyoaten2
    Thanks for summarising the dates, i was struggling picking out relevant information.

    HMRC probably couldnt have done more. But then theres nothing to say that the employer hasnt or will not be updating the tax codes in time for the next pay.
    Don't be angry!
    • Impius
    • By Impius 6th Dec 17, 12:45 PM
    • 58 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    Impius
    Appreciate I went in to a lot of detail but felt it was necessary in an attempt to get answers.

    My HR Manager already confirmed that we have missed the cut off for the December pay run so it won't be resolved until, at least, the January one.
    • Ja7188
    • By Ja7188 6th Dec 17, 4:55 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Ja7188
    Frustrating though this must be, I tend to agree with the comment that if you keep chasing the HR/ payroll department then you could find yourself with a reputation you don't want - and you're presumably still on probation and really need to focus on getting your head round your new responsibilities...

    The fact that HMRC have allegedly sent the code on several occasions could indicate that it isn't getting through - which firstly suggests that they're doing their bit and re-sending where required and secondly that their communications aren't getting through to your employer. If it's legitimate to do so (and I've no idea whether it is), could you perhaps request that HMRC send the details to you directly for you to forward on?

    The only two solutions I can think of it would be for you to ask whether your employer can give you some sort of advance payment in your December salary which they could then claw back in January's pay run (by which time the correct tax code should be in use), although this will obviously only be possible if they can still make additional changes now that payroll has been run and given that you're new, this could be seen as creating a hassle so perhaps isn't the greatest idea - or alternatively you could apply for one of 0% credit cards as suggested elsewhere on this site and use that to tide you over without incurring much/ any interest (and then cancel if if appropriate)...?
    Last edited by Ja7188; 06-12-2017 at 4:59 PM.
    • purdyoaten2
    • By purdyoaten2 6th Dec 17, 5:26 PM
    • 722 Posts
    • 324 Thanks
    purdyoaten2
    The fact that HMRC have allegedly sent the code on several occasions could indicate that it isn't getting through - which firstly suggests that they're doing their bit and re-sending where required and secondly that their communications aren't getting through to your employer. If it's legitimate to do so (and I've no idea whether it is), could you perhaps request that HMRC send the details to you directly for you to forward on?

    .?
    Originally posted by Ja7188
    This is the message that the employer receives - it is really up to them to log in and retrieve the information.

    You have new Generic notifications. Please go online at https://online.hmrc.gov.uk/ and login.
    Go to your messages page and select 'PAYE for employers messages'.
    Please do not reply to this e-mail
    purdyoaten lost his password
    • Ja7188
    • By Ja7188 6th Dec 17, 5:31 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Ja7188
    Yes - but given the OP has been told that 'there are probably hundreds of other people in the company with the same problem', perhaps the e-mails are going to a defunct e-mail address which needs updating...
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

1,867Posts Today

7,322Users online

Martin's Twitter