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    • glasgowdan
    • By glasgowdan 6th Dec 17, 9:59 AM
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    glasgowdan
    Council tax banding / wooden sun room?
    • #1
    • 6th Dec 17, 9:59 AM
    Council tax banding / wooden sun room? 6th Dec 17 at 9:59 AM
    Hi,

    I just came on to look for advice as I can't find much online.

    Does anyone know if a wooden frame and single glazed sun room should be included in house size calculations when assessing council tax banding? It is not a habitable room.

    Thanks
Page 1
    • JoJo1978
    • By JoJo1978 6th Dec 17, 10:18 AM
    • 181 Posts
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    JoJo1978
    • #2
    • 6th Dec 17, 10:18 AM
    • #2
    • 6th Dec 17, 10:18 AM
    Council tax banding in my area was last done on valuations in 1991. Any modifications made since then are not taken into account. Also my council tax bill is the same as my neighbours, I have an extension and they don’t. The bill is not as localised as the dimensions of an individual house I don’t think
    Hamster in the wheel (London) 1999-2017
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    • poppasmurf_bewdley
    • By poppasmurf_bewdley 6th Dec 17, 10:19 AM
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    poppasmurf_bewdley
    • #3
    • 6th Dec 17, 10:19 AM
    • #3
    • 6th Dec 17, 10:19 AM
    If it's not habitable, what is it?

    Is it a ruin?
    "Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds nought and six, result misery." Mr Wilkins Micawber in David Copperfield by Charles Dickens.
    • glasgowdan
    • By glasgowdan 6th Dec 17, 10:22 AM
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    glasgowdan
    • #4
    • 6th Dec 17, 10:22 AM
    • #4
    • 6th Dec 17, 10:22 AM
    If it's not habitable, what is it?

    Is it a ruin?
    Originally posted by poppasmurf_bewdley
    You wouldn't sleep, read, eat or otherwise spend time in there due to the temperatures, which vary between -2 and 45 degrees! It's a place for washing machine and storage shelves.
    • poppasmurf_bewdley
    • By poppasmurf_bewdley 6th Dec 17, 10:28 AM
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    poppasmurf_bewdley
    • #5
    • 6th Dec 17, 10:28 AM
    • #5
    • 6th Dec 17, 10:28 AM
    You wouldn't sleep, read, eat or otherwise spend time in there due to the temperatures, which vary between -2 and 45 degrees! It's a place for washing machine and storage shelves.
    Originally posted by glasgowdan
    Then the room is usable, and is part of the house. It sounds just like my garage, which is part of the house.

    In which case it would be included in any valuation for any purpose. As mentioned above, council tax banding was set in 1991, but changes can be made either up or down, when an occupier challenges a banding.

    If you or your neighbour challenges a banding, and the home happens to get a higher band (yes, it's happened), then neighbours can find their banding is also increased.
    "Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds nought and six, result misery." Mr Wilkins Micawber in David Copperfield by Charles Dickens.
    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 6th Dec 17, 11:00 AM
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    davidmcn
    • #6
    • 6th Dec 17, 11:00 AM
    • #6
    • 6th Dec 17, 11:00 AM
    It adds on whatever value a rickety sun room does - which I doubt is much. This also presumes the sun room wasn't already there and taken into account at the time of the original valuation.

    the temperatures vary between -2 and 45 degrees! It's a place for washing machine and storage shelves.
    Originally posted by glasgowdan
    If it's got a washing machine and plumbing I would try to keep the temperature above freezing...
    Last edited by davidmcn; 06-12-2017 at 11:03 AM.
    • Tom99
    • By Tom99 6th Dec 17, 11:46 AM
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    Tom99
    • #7
    • 6th Dec 17, 11:46 AM
    • #7
    • 6th Dec 17, 11:46 AM
    The sun room would most likely be excluded from the M2 area recorded on the VO database but it would probably have a 'conservatory' maker added to the record as one of its attributes.
    • elonii
    • By elonii 6th Dec 17, 12:18 PM
    • 44 Posts
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    elonii
    • #8
    • 6th Dec 17, 12:18 PM
    • #8
    • 6th Dec 17, 12:18 PM
    I have one of those on the house I have just bought. It's leaking and needs to be demolished. I clarified with the estate agent that the surveyor does not include that in the square meterage of the property for his valuation purposes (cos I didn't want to pay for it!). I'd hope it was similar for council tax valuation purposes.
    • poppasmurf_bewdley
    • By poppasmurf_bewdley 6th Dec 17, 12:31 PM
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    poppasmurf_bewdley
    • #9
    • 6th Dec 17, 12:31 PM
    • #9
    • 6th Dec 17, 12:31 PM
    I have one of those on the house I have just bought. It's leaking and needs to be demolished. I clarified with the estate agent that the surveyor does not include that in the square meterage of the property for his valuation purposes (cos I didn't want to pay for it!). I'd hope it was similar for council tax valuation purposes.
    Originally posted by elonii
    In 1991, most council tax valuations were done on a drive by basis. If it was at the rear, it probably wouldnít have even been seen.
    "Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds nought and six, result misery." Mr Wilkins Micawber in David Copperfield by Charles Dickens.
    • glasgowdan
    • By glasgowdan 6th Dec 17, 12:48 PM
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    glasgowdan
    The sun room would most likely be excluded from the M2 area recorded on the VO database but it would probably have a 'conservatory' maker added to the record as one of its attributes.
    Originally posted by Tom99
    Thanks for the insight. I'll come back with more background info shortly.
    • davilown
    • By davilown 6th Dec 17, 12:55 PM
    • 1,467 Posts
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    davilown
    Council tax banding in my area was last done on valuations in 1991. Any modifications made since then are not taken into account. Also my council tax bill is the same as my neighbours, I have an extension and they donít. The bill is not as localised as the dimensions of an individual house I donít think
    Originally posted by JoJo1978
    I may be wrong but your council tax banding is reviewed when a marker is placed on it following a planning application. Whether it's changed then or when the house is sold I don't know
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    • CIS
    • By CIS 6th Dec 17, 2:32 PM
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    CIS
    I may be wrong but your council tax banding is reviewed when a marker is placed on it following a planning application. Whether it's changed then or when the house is sold I don't know
    Originally posted by davilown
    It will be reviewed on sale or transfer.

    If an error correction occurs then the error will only correct the banding based on the property as it was at the time of banding. Any changes since the banding, such as an extension, wouldn't be relevant to the banding that was being corrected.
    I no longer work in Council Tax Recovery as I'm now a self employed Council Tax advisor and consultant with my own Council Tax consultancy business. My views are my own reading of the law and you should always check with the local authority in question.
    • lincroft1710
    • By lincroft1710 6th Dec 17, 2:56 PM
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    lincroft1710
    Council Tax banding is based on what a house would sell for on 1 April 1991 (Eng and Scot), 1 Apr 2003 (Wales). Can't comment on how Scottish Assessors carried out the original banding, but in E and W, the VOA gave the agents all the details they had on properties, so they could use these in connection with a brief external inspection from the road. The details were as at 1 April 1990.

    Had it been in E or W, OP's sun room would most probably have been treated as a conservatory, usually adding minimal value to the estimated sale price. However because of the very fact of precise upper limit of each band, a house right at the top of the band could be tipped over into the next band by the addition of a conservatory.

    A CT band cannot be increased on account of extensions, alterations or additions carried out by the current owner after 1 April 1993 (E and S), 1 April 2005 (W) or after the date the property was first assessed for CT. But it can be increased if the works were carried out prior to 1 April 1993 (E and S), 1 Apr 2005 (W) but not currently reflected in the band or were carried out by a previous owner
    Last edited by lincroft1710; 06-12-2017 at 4:09 PM.
    • glasgowdan
    • By glasgowdan 6th Dec 17, 3:41 PM
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    glasgowdan
    Thanks again all.

    The house is one we bought a year ago. The band has not changed since the purchase and I am suggesting it is not in the correct band in the first place due to very close similarity to the neighbour's house, which is a band lower. Both houses have extensions and I believe the floorspace to be almost the same in both house.

    Scottish assessors have on file that our house is 33% larger than the neighbour, which it is not. They have suggested that we are right at the edge of the CT band.

    Apparently in Scotland the banding was decided on more desktop data than the well documented drive-by of some areas of the UK.

    The sunroom was built in the 1970s, had no heating when we bought it, single pane windows that don't close, no brickwork in the structure. We have not altered the house other than cosmetically, and I suspect the sunroom really has to go as it is flimsy and not likely to last long from this point on.

    I have been told by email (although this has been a very long-winded process over the last 14 months where they have changed their story on more than one occasion) that a sunroom does count in the overall m2 but does NOT count when they are deciding how many 'apartments' the house has. This being contrary to what I was told in person where the banding has been influenced by measurements where the conservatory has a reduction factor applied to it due to the sparse brickwork in the walls, and the sunroom would not be counted due to the all-wood and single pane glass construction.

    So I am just trying to see if there is anything definitive, in documentation or otherwise less vague and debatable!
    • lincroft1710
    • By lincroft1710 6th Dec 17, 4:06 PM
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    lincroft1710

    So I am just trying to see if there is anything definitive, in documentation or otherwise less vague and debatable!
    Originally posted by glasgowdan
    As far as I am aware there is nothing in legislation which states anything other than the basic "open market value as at 1 April 1991 (2003 in Wales)". The VOA do publish online "The Council Tax Manual" but it does not set out or suggest how to approach valuing a particular property.

    I am not familiar with the SAA so can't say if they publish something similar
    • elonii
    • By elonii 7th Dec 17, 10:09 AM
    • 44 Posts
    • 37 Thanks
    elonii

    I have been told by email (although this has been a very long-winded process over the last 14 months where they have changed their story on more than one occasion) that a sunroom does count in the overall m2 but does NOT count when they are deciding how many 'apartments' the house has.!
    Originally posted by glasgowdan
    If you don't mind my asking, is it the square meterage they look at for banding purposes? Do you know what significance is attached to number of "apartments"?

    I've just put in my own rebanding request, so would appreciate any insight
    • lincroft1710
    • By lincroft1710 7th Dec 17, 2:18 PM
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    lincroft1710
    If you don't mind my asking, is it the square meterage they look at for banding purposes? Do you know what significance is attached to number of "apartments"?

    I've just put in my own rebanding request, so would appreciate any insight
    Originally posted by elonii
    Not certain about the SAA, but the VOA use size rather than number of rooms. Of course house type and location also feature prominently
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