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  • FIRST POST
    • trailingspouse
    • By trailingspouse 5th Dec 17, 5:46 PM
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    trailingspouse
    Supermarket fuel v the rest
    • #1
    • 5th Dec 17, 5:46 PM
    Supermarket fuel v the rest 5th Dec 17 at 5:46 PM
    I'm sure this has been asked before - apologies.

    OH is adamant that supermarket diesel is poor quality and bad for the engine. More than that, he prefers to use the 'premium' variety, even at the non-supermarket filling stations. Personally I'd be happy enough to use the supermarket stuff mostly because it's a lot cheaper but also because I'm at the supermarket at least once a week, whereas I have to go out of my way to go to our nearest non-supermarket one. So cheaper, and more convenient.

    Is he right? Or doesn't it make that much of a difference?
Page 3
    • Joe Horner
    • By Joe Horner 6th Dec 17, 10:39 PM
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    Joe Horner
    A bit like whisky then - all the same.

    Some folks can't tell a straight malt from a blend with 49% imported spirit made from potatoes.

    Especially if they pour in in a glass with lemonade or even cola and tell you they've never had a problem getting drunk.
    Originally posted by Iceweasel
    Similarly, some folks were convinced that their Waltham 100 jewel watch:



    was better than an ordinary 17 jewel one. Jewels are like additives - if some is good, more must be better.

    Only, at least in the case of that Waltham, none of the 83 "extra" jewels made any practical difference at all.

    Yes, they provided a theoretical advantage in some very specific circumstances that you could design "tests" to prove - the US didn't allow the counting of jewels that never did anything - but in the real world they were completely and utterly superfluous except as a marketing claim.

    Call me cynical, by all means, but Ad Men don't change .......
    • Carrot007
    • By Carrot007 7th Dec 17, 2:11 AM
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    Carrot007
    All would say is that Sainsbury's diesel gives me the same mpg as shell but 4p a litre cheaper

    But I won't go back to asda again - got caught out and had to put a tank in at asda and ended up 4mpg less on that tankfull
    This has been in the last couple of months.
    Originally posted by GunJack
    If you are getting the same MPG on every tank then you either don't do much driving or you can't measure correctly.

    Anyway to MPG on different types. Premium will give better MPG in most cases. However even taking that into account it still costs more.

    Me, I'm paying around 7p more per litre for BP (non premium) as it's the only garage around here. Yes it's a very expensive garage. I guess they know they have the market. Plus it now has a little M&S for nice stuff! 7p more a litre is hardly worth bothering about though. I'll fill up elsewhere if I can but going somewhere special then the journey would cost more than the savings.
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 7th Dec 17, 8:11 AM
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    motorguy
    A bit like whisky then - all the same.
    Originally posted by Iceweasel
    No. Not really.

    With fuel is using the same base product, the only difference is the detergents and cleaning agents added before distribution. Unless of course, thats how you think whisky is made?

    I can tell the difference between a malt from a blended whisky however i'm fairly sure my car cant tell the difference between them and nor can it tell the difference between BP diesel and ASDA diesel. Likewise i cant tell if my car happens to be running on ASDA diesel or BP diesel.

    Of interest whhen i was doing 30K miles a year, i did brim to brim calcs on every tank of diesel and from which supplier i bought it from. The best range over the course of a tank came from a supermarket fuel. Premium brand fuel often only produced average results.
    You are not special. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 7th Dec 17, 8:20 AM
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    AdrianC
    Whatever the accuracy of the whisky analogy, when it comes to manufacturing methods, I'm really not sure your car is particularly bothered about what the fuel tastes like.
    • oscarward
    • By oscarward 7th Dec 17, 2:06 PM
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    oscarward
    Here's my 2p worth on fuel types and a high performance V6 3.0d engine.


    I feel my car runs smoother on branded fuel. I won't use Sainsburys or Tesco's but will use Asda or Morrisons. Fuel economy varies depending on weather and state of the DPF. If it does a DPF regen then the fuel economy can be 6-10 mpg better.


    For preference I use Shell v-power diesel. Mainly because I started getting DPF full warnings. But since switching to mainly v-power I haven't had any. I know driving pattern has a lot of bearing and I used to do a lot of motorway work but that has changed now after I completed a project in June so I am more wary of what fuel I use.


    But as everyone says each has their own view. My wife only uses Morrisons in her hybrid and has never had an issue.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 7th Dec 17, 2:12 PM
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    AdrianC
    I feel my car runs smoother on branded fuel. I won't use Sainsburys or Tesco's but will use Asda or Morrisons.
    Originally posted by oscarward
    I'd love to hear the logic behind that...
    • oscarward
    • By oscarward 7th Dec 17, 2:32 PM
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    oscarward
    Ok


    I had a Peugeot 406 2.0 td and I noticed if I used Tesco or Sainsbury it ran rather rougher than using other fuels. The performance wasn't as good, and acceleration was poorer. The tickover was more lumpy. The engine seemed more 'sparkly' on other brands. I used to use Asda as I had their credit card just for discount on the fuel but noted sometimes the car ran differently which may have been down to differing quality of fuel from Asda?


    So since then I haven't used them, the fact there is no Sainsbury's Or Tesco fuel point nearby is another reason.


    But as I said my current car can have DPF issues so using a premium fuel can't harm it and seems to help particularly as my driving pattern has changed now. I'm not doing west mids to Chelmsford as a weekly commute!
    Last edited by oscarward; 07-12-2017 at 2:36 PM.
    • patman99
    • By patman99 7th Dec 17, 11:26 PM
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    patman99
    I have driven diesels for 17 years and yes, there are differences in MPG between supermarket and branded fuels.

    It does, however, depend on the engine. My 1999 Octavia with the 1.9TD engine returned the same MPG regardless. Whereas my 1997 Astra 1.6TD suffered a prove able 12% drop in MPG using supermarket diesel.

    Same with my 1.6Hdi Berlingo. It all depends on how sensitive the fuel sensors are.

    My mate had a Picasso with the same engine as my Berlingo and it had always been run on supermarket diesel. It ran sluggish as hell. He switched to branded diesel and over time, the additives cleaned the engine and it ran way smoother. In fact, he no longer needed to drop to 3rd gear to get up the hill into town.
    Never Knowingly Understood.

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    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 8th Dec 17, 7:53 AM
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    AdrianC
    12% increase in consumption?
    One extra litre for every eight used?

    Don't be ridiculous.
    • peter_the_piper
    • By peter_the_piper 8th Dec 17, 8:56 AM
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    peter_the_piper
    Just my 2 pennyworth. My Picanto always runs on Sainsbury's petrol(Cheapest in town) and averages about 55 mpg. I did put in BP on the way to Heathrow once and got about 2mpg more for the extra 7p/l.
    I'd rather be an Optimist and be proved wrong than a Pessimist and be proved right.
    • n217970
    • By n217970 8th Dec 17, 9:45 AM
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    n217970
    I had a Peugeot 406 2.0 td
    Originally posted by oscarward
    I used to put vegtable oil in one of them, trust me they would run fine on anything.
    • vansboy
    • By vansboy 8th Dec 17, 1:26 PM
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    vansboy
    I used to put vegtable oil in one of them, trust me they would run fine on anything.
    Originally posted by n217970
    Thats because the 406 had a PROPER diesel engine, as well as it being a rather good example of what the French did well anyway. without all the add ons of current vehicles.

    VB
    • oscarward
    • By oscarward 8th Dec 17, 3:00 PM
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    oscarward
    Thats because the 406 had a PROPER diesel engine, as well as it being a rather good example of what the French did well anyway. without all the add ons of current vehicles.

    VB
    Originally posted by vansboy
    I agree, the current car engine is a PUG design built by Ford but the DPF cleaning method is different, which is where the problems lie.
    • JJ Egan
    • By JJ Egan 8th Dec 17, 3:09 PM
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    JJ Egan
    <My mate had a Picasso with the same engine as my Berlingo and it had always been run on supermarket diesel. It ran sluggish as hell>

    Mine runs just the same on branded or supermarket or some of the smaller brands .
    All coming out of the same depot .

    If you speak to someone that really knows what they are taking about . Its driving rather than additives or not that are filter cloggers .

    Probably the Picasso had an additive dosing system built in .
    • oscarward
    • By oscarward 8th Dec 17, 3:29 PM
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    oscarward
    Peugeot Citroen use a method of having a separate tank with a special fluid in (lasts 80k miles from memory) and every time you fill up a small amount is squirted in to the fuel tank. When the dpf indicates it is full the management system alters the engine parameters to make it run hotter and the additive makes the soot burn off more easily.


    Jaguar (not sure about Ford) have a different method where there is no extra tank but when the dpf is full extra diesel is injected in to the cylinder on the exhaust stroke , parameters adjusted and the soot is burnt off.


    The problem may arise when the engine is stopped in the middle of a DPF regeneration cycle and the excess fuel in the cylinder may trickle down and dilute the oil. If the car is used for mainly short journeys the regen is interrupted many times and over time if the oil becomes too diluted then the engine may destroy the crankshaft bearings. It is a known issue.
    Last edited by oscarward; 08-12-2017 at 3:33 PM.
    • patman99
    • By patman99 8th Dec 17, 5:53 PM
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    patman99
    My mate's Picasso was a 2004 model and the issue was with the egr being clogged by the way the previous owner used it. The garage he took it to for a service after he realised just how much better my car ran had had a customer with a Berlingo van with the same issue.

    The customer had owned the van from new and only ever ran it on supermarket diesel. The garage suggested trying branded fuel to see if it helped, and, if needed, add fuel based cleaner. The muck blocking the egr took some time to dissolve, but it was cheaper than £950 for a new egr.

    Round my way, there is no difference in fuel prices between supermarkets and branded so I use which ever station I come across first when I need a fill up.

    As for the mpg variance, my Astra returned 66 mpg on average with branded fuel and 56 mpg average on supermarket diesel. The Berlingo figures are very similar.
    Never Knowingly Understood.

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    • oscarward
    • By oscarward 8th Dec 17, 8:03 PM
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    oscarward
    EGR issues are another thing.. I have heard of people just blanking them off so they become irrelevant.
    • jimjames
    • By jimjames 8th Dec 17, 8:50 PM
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    jimjames
    OH is not to be swayed - but as it's me that fills the cars up, it's not really up to him, is it??
    Originally posted by trailingspouse
    If you fill the cars up will he ever know one way or the other?
    Remember the saying: if it looks too good to be true it almost certainly is.
    • patman99
    • By patman99 9th Dec 17, 10:04 PM
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    patman99
    Another factor to consider is engine temperature.

    A diesel engine when cold may only return 18-25 mpg. This will rise as the engine warms up. So short journeys would return low mpg.
    Never Knowingly Understood.

    Member #1 of £1,000 challenge - £759.94/ £1000 (that's 75.49%)

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    • Robisere
    • By Robisere 9th Dec 17, 10:54 PM
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    Robisere
    The first time this came out here, I had a different diesel car to the one I have now. I carried out tests and proved that I had better MPG and smoother running, with Shell V-Power. I use it exclusively for the same reasons, in my current car and I cannot be bothered to read any more arguments against. It's my choice and I am sticking to it.

    If I see another Thread like this I shall ignore it.
    There may be more than one way to skin a cat.
    But the result is always inedible.

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