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  • FIRST POST
    • andrew777
    • By andrew777 5th Dec 17, 10:39 AM
    • 6Posts
    • 0Thanks
    andrew777
    Victim of Fraud (closed accounts)
    • #1
    • 5th Dec 17, 10:39 AM
    Victim of Fraud (closed accounts) 5th Dec 17 at 10:39 AM
    Hey guys,
    Really hope I can get some advise here after many sleepless nights.

    To cut a long story short I run 2 business and have business accounts with Barclays. Somebody broke into my ex-customers bank account and made a transfer to my company's account as I was on his PAYEE list from previous transactions. The scammers googled my company name and gave me a ring to say the transaction was made by mistake and asked to do a refund. I logged into the account straight away to find out the money was really there (£9000) and made a refund to their given account (I could only see customer's account name which was the same). I turned out the money went to the scammers and my accounts got immediately blocked. After 6 weeks of investigation I get a letter to say my accounts are being closed. In all this time I never actually received a phone call from fraud department to discuss what happened... I opened some complaints, etc but the decision remained the same and up to this day (2months) there is no discussion over my funds of around £50k which are still there.

    In order to keep the business alive I went to Lloyds and successfully opened an account but after 2 days I get a letter saying my accounts are being closed (including my personal one which I had with them for 14years). Spoke to Lloyds just now and apparently Barclays have made me a criminal and share some info on cifas(fraud prevention).

    My brain still struggles to understand this is actually happening but that's the reality and I was just wondering if you know where I could help some help as Barclays basically not discussing this further.

    Appreciate your time.
Page 1
    • Ed-1
    • By Ed-1 5th Dec 17, 11:08 AM
    • 2,043 Posts
    • 1,102 Thanks
    Ed-1
    • #2
    • 5th Dec 17, 11:08 AM
    • #2
    • 5th Dec 17, 11:08 AM
    Hey guys,
    Really hope I can get some advise here after many sleepless nights.

    To cut a long story short I run 2 business and have business accounts with Barclays. Somebody broke into my ex-customers bank account and made a transfer to my company's account as I was on his PAYEE list from previous transactions. The scammers googled my company name and gave me a ring to say the transaction was made by mistake and asked to do a refund. I logged into the account straight away to find out the money was really there (£9000) and made a refund to their given account (I could only see customer's account name which was the same). I turned out the money went to the scammers and my accounts got immediately blocked. After 6 weeks of investigation I get a letter to say my accounts are being closed. In all this time I never actually received a phone call from fraud department to discuss what happened... I opened some complaints, etc but the decision remained the same and up to this day (2months) there is no discussion over my funds of around £50k which are still there.

    In order to keep the business alive I went to Lloyds and successfully opened an account but after 2 days I get a letter saying my accounts are being closed (including my personal one which I had with them for 14years). Spoke to Lloyds just now and apparently Barclays have made me a criminal and share some info on cifas(fraud prevention).

    My brain still struggles to understand this is actually happening but that's the reality and I was just wondering if you know where I could help some help as Barclays basically not discussing this further.

    Appreciate your time.
    Originally posted by andrew777
    You need to start with finding out what Barclays have logged onto CIFAS by sending a subject access request which costs a tenner:

    https://www.cifas.org.uk/contact-us/subject-access-request
    • Shakin Steve
    • By Shakin Steve 5th Dec 17, 11:12 AM
    • 1,143 Posts
    • 851 Thanks
    Shakin Steve
    • #3
    • 5th Dec 17, 11:12 AM
    • #3
    • 5th Dec 17, 11:12 AM
    No matter what the final outcome, this will be a long, drawn out affair. There are a good few posts on this forum about people being used as money mules, and the onus always appears to be on the customer to prove their innocence. Until your bank are 100% sure that you had no part in this, they will keep you at arms length. They have to, so as not to let fraudsters know about their systems.
    I received an online notification from Barclays just yesterday telling me that, if any money was to appear in my account that I didn’t expect, I should let them know immediately, without telling anyone else or attempting to withdraw it/move it on. You have done exactly the opposite, even if it was through ignorance.
    I came into this world with nothing and I've got most of it left.
    • andrew777
    • By andrew777 5th Dec 17, 11:12 AM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    andrew777
    • #4
    • 5th Dec 17, 11:12 AM
    • #4
    • 5th Dec 17, 11:12 AM
    Thanks very much Ed-1. Yes, already printed the form out. Will be sending this out today / tomorrow eventhough they say it may take 40 days..

    Trying to arrange an appointment with solicitors but I guess they will just advise on complaining to Financial Ombudsman Service.
    • andrew777
    • By andrew777 5th Dec 17, 11:15 AM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    andrew777
    • #5
    • 5th Dec 17, 11:15 AM
    • #5
    • 5th Dec 17, 11:15 AM
    Thanks for your comment Shakin Steve.
    Yes, I'm aware of what I've done but in all honesty, it came from my old customer so didn't have too much suspicion...
    • FriendlyFoe
    • By FriendlyFoe 5th Dec 17, 1:13 PM
    • 18 Posts
    • 17 Thanks
    FriendlyFoe
    • #6
    • 5th Dec 17, 1:13 PM
    • #6
    • 5th Dec 17, 1:13 PM
    You are known as victim-beneficiary. You have the right to dispute Barclays actions. This fraud MO is not as common as outright theft. However Barclays standard of evidence should stand in court for treating you as the outright fraudster. It doesn’t seem this is the case. You nee to log a fraud claim for the funds received into the accounts followed by a complaint to Barclays about processing of the issue wrongly.
    • msallen
    • By msallen 5th Dec 17, 2:21 PM
    • 595 Posts
    • 574 Thanks
    msallen
    • #7
    • 5th Dec 17, 2:21 PM
    • #7
    • 5th Dec 17, 2:21 PM
    As already stated, Barclays need to be convinced that you really are an innocent victim/unwitting stooge in all this.

    Hence it is worth getting all your facts organised, as the slightest hole in them will ring alarm bells.

    To that end consider what you told us above ...

    ...and made a refund to their given account (I could only see customer's account name which was the same)
    Now either this customer's account details were already saved in your account, in which case the refund went to a legitimate account; or more likely the fraudsters gave you a sort code/account number to send the refund to. If the latter then your statement about only seeing the account name is untrue, and whilst you may think it sounds better for you to say this, it doesn't because it is an inconsistency in your story.
    • andrew777
    • By andrew777 5th Dec 17, 4:05 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    andrew777
    • #8
    • 5th Dec 17, 4:05 PM
    • #8
    • 5th Dec 17, 4:05 PM
    As already stated, Barclays need to be convinced that you really are an innocent victim/unwitting stooge in all this.

    Hence it is worth getting all your facts organised, as the slightest hole in them will ring alarm bells.

    To that end consider what you told us above ...



    Now either this customer's account details were already saved in your account, in which case the refund went to a legitimate account; or more likely the fraudsters gave you a sort code/account number to send the refund to. If the latter then your statement about only seeing the account name is untrue, and whilst you may think it sounds better for you to say this, it doesn't because it is an inconsistency in your story.
    Originally posted by msallen
    Thanks very much for the comments.
    The thing is when the money is received from the customer (I never made a payment to him) all I see is Account Name (which mached their given). Once you click on the transaction all tou can find is TFR for transfer but no sort code or acc number to cross check.

    Just came back from the local branch as they seemed to be more helpful than people on the line. It looks like somebody has initiated the re-opening of the accounts but some other department decided it needs to be closed. After 3 hours in the branch still didn't get anywhere apart from the re-opened complaint but I'm also certain nobody will be in rush to get back to me on this..
    • msallen
    • By msallen 5th Dec 17, 4:16 PM
    • 595 Posts
    • 574 Thanks
    msallen
    • #9
    • 5th Dec 17, 4:16 PM
    • #9
    • 5th Dec 17, 4:16 PM
    Thanks very much for the comments.
    The thing is when the money is received from the customer (I never made a payment to him) all I see is Account Name (which mached their given). Once you click on the transaction all tou can find is TFR for transfer but no sort code or acc number to cross check.

    Just came back from the local branch as they seemed to be more helpful than people on the line. It looks like somebody has initiated the re-opening of the accounts but some other department decided it needs to be closed. After 3 hours in the branch still didn't get anywhere apart from the re-opened complaint but I'm also certain nobody will be in rush to get back to me on this..
    Originally posted by andrew777
    If you're saying that you refunded the money to the same account it came from, then I can't see where the fraudsters stood to gain from this. If that really is the case then that should certainly help you as far as not being seen to have done anything untoward yourself.
    • andrew777
    • By andrew777 5th Dec 17, 4:56 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    andrew777
    If you're saying that you refunded the money to the same account it came from, then I can't see where the fraudsters stood to gain from this. If that really is the case then that should certainly help you as far as not being seen to have done anything untoward yourself.
    Originally posted by msallen
    Sorry I didn't make myself clear. I assumed that the money went back, however once my online banking and cards got blocked I realised that is not the case. That old customer (a genuine one) also contacted me next day to ask if I received money as he had some unauthorised activity on his account.. this is when I realised what really happened..
    • GingerFurball
    • By GingerFurball 11th Dec 17, 10:11 PM
    • 949 Posts
    • 893 Thanks
    GingerFurball
    If you're saying that you refunded the money to the same account it came from, then I can't see where the fraudsters stood to gain from this. If that really is the case then that should certainly help you as far as not being seen to have done anything untoward yourself.
    Originally posted by msallen
    It's a common fraud MO. Transfer money to an existing payee, contact that payee and say 'whoops, I transferred money to you by mistake, can you transfer it back to my Barclays account' - essentially the OP has been unwittingly used to facilitate fraud.
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    • andrew777
    • By andrew777 11th Dec 17, 10:24 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    andrew777
    Well, looks like my nightmare about to end. Had a phone call from Barclays complaints department to say my accounts are being reopened. Can't believe it took them 2 months exactly to realise I'm not a fraudster but there you go. Feel relieved...
    Its still not clear where I stand with the money for this actuall fraudulent l transaction. When I received the £9k and sent it off to scammers, Barclays took the remaining balance in that account which was around £5200. I was explained today this was claimed by the ex customers bank. I'm wondering why can't I open a claim for the £9k I sent out but that's is probably because I actually authorised the payment? Any ideas guys?
    Last edited by andrew777; 11-12-2017 at 10:27 PM.
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