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  • FIRST POST
    • movilogo
    • By movilogo 5th Dec 17, 10:31 AM
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    movilogo
    ISA S&S - HL vs CS
    • #1
    • 5th Dec 17, 10:31 AM
    ISA S&S - HL vs CS 5th Dec 17 at 10:31 AM
    I am trying to decide between Hargreaves Lansdown and Charles Stanley for ISA S&S

    Amount to be invested £10k

    option 1:
    HL readymade portfolio for balanced income
    http://www.hl.co.uk/investment-services/isa/ready-made-isa/portfolio-plus

    Platform charge 0.45%, OCF/TER = 1.33%

    option 2:
    Charles Stanley ISA S&S
    https://www.charles-stanley-direct.co.uk/Our_Services/ISA/

    Unlike HL, here I can't see all the charges.

    All I can see platform charge 0.25% but then how do I see the OCF/TER etc?

    Can I select same OEIC funds from either HL or CS?
    Happiness is buying an item and then not checking its price after a month to discover it was reduced further.
Page 1
    • Linton
    • By Linton 5th Dec 17, 10:43 AM
    • 8,622 Posts
    • 8,591 Thanks
    Linton
    • #2
    • 5th Dec 17, 10:43 AM
    • #2
    • 5th Dec 17, 10:43 AM
    OCF/TER are fund dependent charges made by the fund manager, usually they will be the same for any platform.

    Most platforms, especially the major ones, will provide any funds you are likely to want - it is fairly rare for something not to be available.
    • ColdIron
    • By ColdIron 5th Dec 17, 10:58 AM
    • 3,661 Posts
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    ColdIron
    • #3
    • 5th Dec 17, 10:58 AM
    • #3
    • 5th Dec 17, 10:58 AM
    With HL you are looking at an ISA, which is just a tax wrapper, that charges 0.45% for any funds that it may contain and also a selection of their in house (and very expensive) funds

    With CSD you are just looking at the ISA tax wrapper. You will need to select one or more funds for it to contain before you can see the OCF(s)

    You should really work out what your objective is, select the investments that match that objective and then, and only then, choose a platform that best provides those investments. It should be your final, not first, decision

    With respect I suggest you make no ISA or fund choices until you have got your head around fundamental issues such as these or you will come a cropper
    • Lokolo
    • By Lokolo 5th Dec 17, 11:04 AM
    • 19,851 Posts
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    Lokolo
    • #4
    • 5th Dec 17, 11:04 AM
    • #4
    • 5th Dec 17, 11:04 AM
    This is not a recommendation, but CSD also have their own ready made portfolios which you can find here, imo they are very expensive for what they are.

    https://www.charles-stanley-direct.co.uk/Invest/Multi_Asset_Funds/

    As others above has said, you are currently looking at a HL created fund. If you look for any non-platform specific, for example Henderson Global Growth Acc Class I

    http://www.hl.co.uk/funds/fund-discounts,-prices--and--factsheets/search-results/h/henderson-global-growth-class-i-accumulation

    https://www.charles-stanley-direct.co.uk/ViewFund?Sedol=B68SFJ1&Isin=GB00B68SFJ13

    They are both available in both platforms, both have the same OCR (I suspect rounding differences between 0.84%/0.85%). So the only cost difference to you if you purchased this fund, would be the platform cost.

    You can have different classes of funds, this is class I. Different classes, different charging structures. Some platforms have cheaper than usual class.
    • movilogo
    • By movilogo 5th Dec 17, 11:18 AM
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    movilogo
    • #5
    • 5th Dec 17, 11:18 AM
    • #5
    • 5th Dec 17, 11:18 AM
    imo they are very expensive for what they are.
    Why do you say that? This is the exact type of questions I am trying to find an answer. How do I compare one fund with another?

    Also, is total cost = platform charge + OCF/TER + AMC ?
    Happiness is buying an item and then not checking its price after a month to discover it was reduced further.
    • ColdIron
    • By ColdIron 5th Dec 17, 11:22 AM
    • 3,661 Posts
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    ColdIron
    • #6
    • 5th Dec 17, 11:22 AM
    • #6
    • 5th Dec 17, 11:22 AM
    Also, is total cost = platform charge + OCF/TER + AMC ?
    Originally posted by movilogo
    No

    It is platform charge + OCF
    TER and AMC are old fashioned terms that did not fully express the fund charges and have been replaced with OCF
    • Lokolo
    • By Lokolo 5th Dec 17, 11:27 AM
    • 19,851 Posts
    • 14,936 Thanks
    Lokolo
    • #7
    • 5th Dec 17, 11:27 AM
    • #7
    • 5th Dec 17, 11:27 AM
    Why do you say that? This is the exact type of questions I am trying to find an answer. How do I compare one fund with another?

    Also, is total cost = platform charge + OCF/TER + AMC ?
    Originally posted by movilogo
    Total cost = platform + OCF

    Each fund has an annual charge (known as the OCF or 'Ongoing Charges Figure') as shown in the table above. This represents the costs of running the fund including management and administration charges, and the charges for any funds held within each fund.
    by CSD
    • movilogo
    • By movilogo 5th Dec 17, 11:33 AM
    • 2,288 Posts
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    movilogo
    • #8
    • 5th Dec 17, 11:33 AM
    • #8
    • 5th Dec 17, 11:33 AM
    I am new to this and it is a minefield.

    This page has good write up of what to look for funds while choosing.

    http://moneytothemasses.com/saving-for-your-future/12-things-to-look-for-when-choosing-an-investment-fund
    Happiness is buying an item and then not checking its price after a month to discover it was reduced further.
    • Lokolo
    • By Lokolo 5th Dec 17, 11:42 AM
    • 19,851 Posts
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    Lokolo
    • #9
    • 5th Dec 17, 11:42 AM
    • #9
    • 5th Dec 17, 11:42 AM
    imo your best bet is to learn about the funds and the asset types, IA sectors. This will give you a good idea of what sort of portfolio you would want.

    You can then pick funds to match up to your asset type of portfolio.

    You can then compare the costs of the different platforms.

    Example of my SIPP portfolio:

    20% UK Large Cap (Index)
    10% UK Small/Mid Cap
    24% Europe ex UK Large Cap
    18% US Large Cap (Index)
    10% Asia inc Jap
    10% Emerging Markets
    5% High Yield Bond (this may change to a technology based fund when I feel there has been a correction in the market)

    My total OCF for this is 0.85%, plus CSD platform charge of 0.25% means my total cost is 1.10%. When my portfolio gets large enough I suspect I will move to a fixed fee platform where I can get my total cost <1%.

    Something to play with - http://tools.morningstar.co.uk/uk/fundscreener/default.aspx?Site=uk&LanguageId=en-GB

    I definitely recommend you maybe find a sector and area you think you want your portfolio to have in it, play with the fund screener. Once you have a fund you can have a look at HL and CSD and see if they offer it.
    Last edited by Lokolo; 05-12-2017 at 11:45 AM.
    • movilogo
    • By movilogo 5th Dec 17, 11:58 AM
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    movilogo
    Is it a specific fund you are using or custom made?
    Happiness is buying an item and then not checking its price after a month to discover it was reduced further.
    • Lokolo
    • By Lokolo 5th Dec 17, 12:00 PM
    • 19,851 Posts
    • 14,936 Thanks
    Lokolo
    My portfolio is custom made.

    20% - iShares UK Equity Index (UK) D Fund Acc
    10% - Old Mutual UK Smaller Cos U1 Fund Acc
    24% - Man GLG Continental European Grwth Prof C Fund Acc
    18% - iShares Nth American Equity Index (UK) D Fund Acc
    10% - Invesco Perpetual Pacific Y Fund Acc
    10% - Lazard Emerging Markets I Fund Acc
    -5% - Schroder High Yield Opportunities Z Fund Acc
    Last edited by Lokolo; 05-12-2017 at 12:03 PM.
    • movilogo
    • By movilogo 5th Dec 17, 12:06 PM
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    movilogo
    I guess most (if not all) of these funds are purchasable under ISA S&S using either HL or CSD or just any other large platforms?
    Happiness is buying an item and then not checking its price after a month to discover it was reduced further.
    • Lokolo
    • By Lokolo 5th Dec 17, 12:12 PM
    • 19,851 Posts
    • 14,936 Thanks
    Lokolo
    That is correct.

    So its a matter of figuring out what sort of funds you want. There are many purpose built portfolios rather than what I've done.

    There are index only ones as well (index - no active management) - Blackrock, HSBC and Vanguard are popular. These are mainly low cost <0.5%.

    Vanguard have LifeStrategy

    https://www.vanguard.co.uk/adviser/adv/investments/about-funds/lifestrategy-funds

    These are low cost, and follow the markets. They aren't there to outperform but are there to follow the markets at a low cost.

    Example - https://www.charles-stanley-direct.co.uk/ViewFund?Sedol=B4PQW15&Isin=GB00B4PQW151
    0.22% OCF
    • ColdIron
    • By ColdIron 5th Dec 17, 12:27 PM
    • 3,661 Posts
    • 4,403 Thanks
    ColdIron
    Rather than attempt to construct a custom portfolio of single sector funds which, I think we would both agree, is beyond your ability at this stage why not look at a single multi-asset fund?

    They are especially suited to:
    • Novice investors
    • Investors with small pots
    They are low maintenance, cheap and professionally managed by fund managers with more experience and research tools than are available to you. They would almost certainly be a better option for you at this stage and could stand you in good stead for three or more years of being fully funded by you. During that time you would have plenty of time to research why they do what they do in the way that they do it before you make a decision to improve upon it or make our own mistakes
    • digannio
    • By digannio 5th Dec 17, 1:06 PM
    • 175 Posts
    • 94 Thanks
    digannio
    Something like L&G Multi-Index 5 Fund would give you good diversification (shares, bonds and property) and a lot cheaper than one of the HL ready-made portfolios.
    • movilogo
    • By movilogo 5th Dec 17, 1:08 PM
    • 2,288 Posts
    • 1,550 Thanks
    movilogo
    why not look at a single multi-asset fund?
    That's exactly I am trying to do

    Its buy price shown as £19000. Is it same as NAV? Does it mean with £10k I can't buy it or can still buy a fraction of it?
    Last edited by movilogo; 05-12-2017 at 1:11 PM.
    Happiness is buying an item and then not checking its price after a month to discover it was reduced further.
    • Lokolo
    • By Lokolo 5th Dec 17, 1:15 PM
    • 19,851 Posts
    • 14,936 Thanks
    Lokolo
    GBX is pence, not pounds. So its £190 each unit.

    You can by part units which usually go down to 1/1000th (or whatever decimals is!)

    I have funds with 56.9863 units for example.
    Last edited by Lokolo; 05-12-2017 at 1:18 PM. Reason: can't do math
    • Audaxer
    • By Audaxer 5th Dec 17, 4:14 PM
    • 645 Posts
    • 287 Thanks
    Audaxer
    Rather than attempt to construct a custom portfolio of single sector funds which, I think we would both agree, is beyond your ability at this stage why not look at a single multi-asset fund?

    They are especially suited to:
    • Novice investors
    • Investors with small pots
    They are low maintenance, cheap and professionally managed by fund managers with more experience and research tools than are available to you. They would almost certainly be a better option for you at this stage and could stand you in good stead for three or more years of being fully funded by you. During that time you would have plenty of time to research why they do what they do in the way that they do it before you make a decision to improve upon it or make our own mistakes
    Originally posted by ColdIron
    And there is no reason you can't keep your investments in low cost passive global diversified multi asset funds even when you have built up a portfolio of substantial value.
    • kidmugsy
    • By kidmugsy 5th Dec 17, 9:56 PM
    • 9,895 Posts
    • 6,673 Thanks
    kidmugsy
    Amount to be invested £10k

    option 1:
    HL readymade portfolio for balanced income
    http://www.hl.co.uk/investment-services/isa/ready-made-isa/portfolio-plus

    Platform charge 0.45%, OCF/TER = 1.33%
    Originally posted by movilogo
    I'm a fan of HL for small SIPPS but not for small ISAs. I'd look elsewhere. I'd also expect to invest in something a darn sight cheaper than 1.33% p.a. That could easily mean one third or more of your dividend income vanishing in charges.
    Free the dunston one next time too.
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