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  • FIRST POST
    • dgevans1979
    • By dgevans1979 5th Dec 17, 10:25 AM
    • 4Posts
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    dgevans1979
    Charges incurred do to change in 'responsible lending'
    • #1
    • 5th Dec 17, 10:25 AM
    Charges incurred do to change in 'responsible lending' 5th Dec 17 at 10:25 AM
    Hi Folks,

    Am new to this, so please bear with me. In the late 90s (I know), I took out a Debenhams card, and duly signed anything put before me. I made a tentative inquiry on a refund some time back, but this was rejected on the basis I signed the agreement, and it was in view on each statement. Now, I didnt pursue this further at the time, but something above an beyond this considerably antagonises me.

    My initial credit limit was X amount (maybe 1k), however as this was my only credit, and I was a very good boy, they raised it... to 11k. As I had no intention of using the card, I was oblivious to this, until I was in need of cash, and realised what I had at my disposal.

    Then I got silly

    I ended up owing around 8k, due to purchases, but mainly cash transactions. Sometime afterward, there was a 'change' in responsible lending laws, and my credit allowance went back down to a more reasonable amount (off hand not sure, say 2k). As I was already above that limit, they began to charge me monthly penalties, making it almost impossible to pay off, and certainly difficult to make any actual headway in the debt.

    I was young, niaive, and didnt know what to do... so I paid and paid and paid.

    Now, in hindsight, surely they could not charge me penalties for this? I had an agreed limit, which they changed, and then reduced.

    Do I have any chance of recovering:

    PPI after it being rejected once already?
    Charges for using cash facilities?
    Penalties for being over a limit, that was only set after it was exceeded (hope that bit makes sense)?

    Would a SAR provide me with all information after all this time?

    This has put a strain on relationships, caused mental stress, prevented me from moving and stalled my career. To be blunt I feel shafted. It was possibly finalised in the mid 00s, but the affects are still being felt today.

    Any thoughts?
Page 1
    • k3lvc
    • By k3lvc 5th Dec 17, 10:32 AM
    • 1,944 Posts
    • 3,084 Thanks
    k3lvc
    • #2
    • 5th Dec 17, 10:32 AM
    • #2
    • 5th Dec 17, 10:32 AM
    ..and duly signed anything put before me.
    Originally posted by dgevans1979

    Then I got silly
    I was young, niaive, and didnt know what to do
    To be blunt I feel shafted.
    Any thoughts?
    And somehow this is someone else's fault ? You chose to take the money made available to you and then when they realised your irresponsibility and try to control it you say they acted wrongly and want compensating ??


    Good luck
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 5th Dec 17, 10:40 AM
    • 89,886 Posts
    • 56,563 Thanks
    dunstonh
    • #3
    • 5th Dec 17, 10:40 AM
    • #3
    • 5th Dec 17, 10:40 AM
    Do I have any chance of recovering:

    PPI after it being rejected once already?
    Charges for using cash facilities?
    Penalties for being over a limit, that was only set after it was exceeded (hope that bit makes sense)?
    PPI - no. You complained and you were rejected.
    charges - no
    penalties - no

    It was possibly finalised in the mid 00s
    And that is why you will get nothing now.

    Bank charges are allowed. The banks won the court case on unfair charges back in 2009. Nowadays, the only time banks look at charges is either due to incorrect application of charges (i.e. they charged the wrong amount) or where the person is in CURRENT financial hardship. Historic hardship is not considered.

    Even in current financial hardship there is no guarantee the bank will refund charges. They have other options. Such as suspending new charges for the next x months or putting your on a debt management plan. Often its a combination and even when a bank does refund charges, it is often only upto the last 12 months. It has to be pretty extreme for them to refund further back (not unheard of but just less common).

    Don't let it fester. Its sorted now and get on with your life. You are what you are through your experiences. That lesson in borrowing money and having to pay it back and the consequences has probably taught you to be more sensible now.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. Different people have different needs and what is right for one person may not be for another. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • dgevans1979
    • By dgevans1979 5th Dec 17, 11:55 AM
    • 4 Posts
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    dgevans1979
    • #4
    • 5th Dec 17, 11:55 AM
    • #4
    • 5th Dec 17, 11:55 AM
    Yes, I do... not sure if you are missing my point:

    Mr E- here, please use my bike
    Wow Mr E, you are really good- take my car
    Actually Mr E- I wasn't supposed to lend you my car, you have to back on my bike
    Oh by the way, even though you took the car with my full blessing, and used it in a manner I saw fit, I now have to charge you for using it as it was silly of me to so...

    THEY applied the charges for being over my spending limit. They changed that limit to an amount lower than my balance.

    Not sure if I am articulating this correctly- I see it as not being my fault as they set the agreement and then penalised me for acting in accordance with it... surely it is more irresponsible to apply charges. If I agreed to lend you a tenner, and you spent 8 quid, is it reasonable for me to charge penalties because you spent more than fiver? Especially if I still paying back the agreed rate?

    To me, it would be common sense, or at the least fair, not to add penalties on the deficit between the two figures? How can that be my fault? The limit takes effect after I acted?
    • Moneyineptitude
    • By Moneyineptitude 5th Dec 17, 12:02 PM
    • 18,899 Posts
    • 10,120 Thanks
    Moneyineptitude
    • #5
    • 5th Dec 17, 12:02 PM
    • #5
    • 5th Dec 17, 12:02 PM
    THEY applied the charges for being over my spending limit. They changed that limit to an amount lower than my balance.
    Originally posted by dgevans1979
    Basically they called in your debt. It was certainly unwise of them to up your credit limit, but only you were responsible for actually spending the money made available to you.

    They would have warned you well in advance that they were reducing your credit limit. Are you sure that the credit limit was reduced lower than the amount you already owed? That seems unlikely.

    You could make an argument for irresponsible lending, but whether you'd have any success with it is debatable..
    • IAmWales
    • By IAmWales 5th Dec 17, 12:11 PM
    • 1,843 Posts
    • 3,832 Thanks
    IAmWales
    • #6
    • 5th Dec 17, 12:11 PM
    • #6
    • 5th Dec 17, 12:11 PM
    Mr E- here, please use my bike
    Wow Mr E, you are really good- take my car
    Actually Mr E- I wasn't supposed to lend you my car, you have to back on my bike
    Oh by the way, even though you took the car with my full blessing, and used it in a manner I saw fit, I now have to charge you for using it as it was silly of me to so...
    You missed out the most important line,

    "No thank you Mr Bank, I'm perfectly happy with the bike so will decline your offer of the car."
    • dgevans1979
    • By dgevans1979 5th Dec 17, 12:12 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    dgevans1979
    • #7
    • 5th Dec 17, 12:12 PM
    • #7
    • 5th Dec 17, 12:12 PM
    They would have warned you well in advance that they were reducing your credit limit. Are you sure that the credit limit was reduced lower than the amount you already owed? That seems unlikely.


    100%

    I dont recall any warnings; Do I need a SAR to confirm this?
    • dgevans1979
    • By dgevans1979 5th Dec 17, 12:20 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    dgevans1979
    • #8
    • 5th Dec 17, 12:20 PM
    • #8
    • 5th Dec 17, 12:20 PM
    You missed out the most important line,

    "No thank you Mr Bank, I'm perfectly happy with the bike so will decline your offer of the car."
    Originally posted by IAmWales
    Well thank you Mr Bank, being a responsible lender I cant imagine their would be any issue in my borrowing this, other than the terms and conditions you have already stipulated, and as it happens a car would be quite useful...

    I am not disputing my own young foolishness; you live and learn. However, I was making payments in line with what I borrowed (in fact i took PPI as I was told I qualified for a further deal)- when the charges kicked in as a result of the limit being less than what I already owed, I was goosed.
    • -taff
    • By -taff 6th Dec 17, 6:26 PM
    • 7,170 Posts
    • 5,161 Thanks
    -taff
    • #9
    • 6th Dec 17, 6:26 PM
    • #9
    • 6th Dec 17, 6:26 PM
    My initial credit limit was X amount (maybe 1k), however as this was my only credit, and I was a very good boy, they raised it... to 11k. As I had no intention of using the card, I was oblivious to this, until I was in need of cash, and realised what I had at my disposal.
    Originally posted by dgevans1979
    I ended up owing around 8k, due to purchases, but mainly cash transactions.
    Originally posted by dgevans1979
    That's some jump from a 1k limit to 8k. Hoever, you spent it, and didn't pay it back, it was just an endless overdraft.

    I was young, niaive, and didnt know what to do... so I paid and paid and paid.
    Originally posted by dgevans1979
    Because you owed and owed and owed.

    Now, in hindsight, surely they could not charge me penalties for this? I had an agreed limit, which they changed, and then reduced.
    Originally posted by dgevans1979
    They called in your debt, but would have given you advance notice of your limit changing. If you believe they didn't, you can complain about it now if you want. Have no idea about your chances though, although very slim springs to mind.

    Do I have any chance of recovering:

    PPI after it being rejected once already?
    Originally posted by dgevans1979
    Nope. But you can submit a Plevin complaint.

    Charges for using cash facilities?
    Originally posted by dgevans1979
    Nope

    Penalties for being over a limit, that was only set after it was exceeded (hope that bit makes sense)?
    Originally posted by dgevans1979
    Possibly

    Would a SAR provide me with all information after all this time?
    Originally posted by dgevans1979
    Depends on what they have left.

    This has put a strain on relationships, caused mental stress, prevented me from moving and stalled my career. To be blunt I feel shafted. It was possibly finalised in the mid 00s, but the affects are still being felt today.?
    Originally posted by dgevans1979
    This is what you did to yourself for being young naive foolosh etc. No one is instantly an adult, they learn. You have now.
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