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  • FIRST POST
    • Yokel
    • By Yokel 4th Dec 17, 8:22 PM
    • 14Posts
    • 1Thanks
    Yokel
    Have I entered a contract?
    • #1
    • 4th Dec 17, 8:22 PM
    Have I entered a contract? 4th Dec 17 at 8:22 PM
    Hello,

    Hope this is the right board to post in.

    I ordered a "Walkers Zbox" from Zavvi on 13/09/2017.

    The estimated delivery date showing on my orders information is 11/10/17.

    As this came and went I contacted them saying "It says estimated delivery 11/10/2017. How come this has yet to be despatched?"

    Their response was:

    "Thanks for contacting us.

    I am very sorry for the delay, we are currently awaiting one of the items that make up this great box, this is expected to be with us by the 19th and your order should be dispatched 24 hours later.

    I deeply apologise for the inconvenience and disappointment caused by this.

    I hope this has helped to resolve your query."

    As expected, this came and went and over the course of the weeks that followed I kept getting told different dates; 27th October, 29th October, 10th November, 19th November, 23rd November (I was assured on the phone of this date)... The latest is "this week" which they told me last week.

    They claimed on the phone that they are not subject to the 30 day rule by Consumer Contract Regulations because I have not paid for the item (they take the money upon despatch) and thus have no contract with them?

    But surely my order itself is an agreement between them and I for them to fulfill the order so should be a contract?

    Also, they regularly sell items on their website as "in stock" then claim they are unable to get it from the supplier weeks after the order is placed. Is this legal? To sell something you have no guarantee of providing?
Page 1
    • George Michael
    • By George Michael 4th Dec 17, 8:29 PM
    • 2,899 Posts
    • 3,916 Thanks
    George Michael
    • #2
    • 4th Dec 17, 8:29 PM
    • #2
    • 4th Dec 17, 8:29 PM
    They claimed on the phone that they are not subject to the 30 day rule by Consumer Contract Regulations because I have not paid for the item (they take the money upon despatch) and thus have no contract with them?
    Originally posted by Yokel
    Terms such as this are normally found in most online sales and provided that they can be seen by prospective customers and there is a tick box or statement saying that you agree to the T&Cs, it's perfectly legal.
    • bris
    • By bris 4th Dec 17, 8:31 PM
    • 7,110 Posts
    • 6,126 Thanks
    bris
    • #3
    • 4th Dec 17, 8:31 PM
    • #3
    • 4th Dec 17, 8:31 PM
    Legal yes, but they can be in breach of contract 30 days after the first date comes and goes. A contract can be formed with or without payment, it's the intent that counts.


    Everything they have done and said point to a valid contract but is it worth the trouble if this fails?


    P.s as the above posted at the same time. T&C's can't over rule contract law. If you accept an offer with intent to follow through on the offer then if you don't you are in breach of contract. You can't try and sell things you can't get your hands on to sell, there can be consequences to this.
    Last edited by bris; 04-12-2017 at 8:33 PM.
    • societys child
    • By societys child 4th Dec 17, 8:31 PM
    • 4,895 Posts
    • 5,348 Thanks
    societys child
    • #4
    • 4th Dec 17, 8:31 PM
    • #4
    • 4th Dec 17, 8:31 PM
    With most on-line sales now, no contract is formed until the goods are dispatched. Check their T&Cs.

    • Fosterdog
    • By Fosterdog 4th Dec 17, 8:32 PM
    • 3,452 Posts
    • 5,896 Thanks
    Fosterdog
    • #5
    • 4th Dec 17, 8:32 PM
    • #5
    • 4th Dec 17, 8:32 PM
    Here are the terms of acceptance on their site

    Any orders placed by you will be treated as an offer to
    purchase the goods or services from us and we have the right to reject such
    offers at any time. You acknowledge that any automated acknowledgment of your
    order which you may receive from us shall not amount to our acceptance of your
    offer to purchase goods or services advertised on the Website. The conclusion
    of a contract between you and us will take place when we (i) debit your credit,
    debit card or PayPal account or (ii) dispatch the goods to you or commence the
    services, whichever is the later


    So they are correct that no contract exists until dispatch or payment taken, whicher is later. Until that time they can cancel without even needing to give a reason.
    • Yokel
    • By Yokel 4th Dec 17, 8:37 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Yokel
    • #6
    • 4th Dec 17, 8:37 PM
    • #6
    • 4th Dec 17, 8:37 PM
    So there is nothing I can do to get them to actually stop lying to me about the despatch date?

    I tak
    • Yokel
    • By Yokel 4th Dec 17, 8:38 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Yokel
    • #7
    • 4th Dec 17, 8:38 PM
    • #7
    • 4th Dec 17, 8:38 PM
    I take it I can't report them to trading standards either.

    Can't seem to edit posts so had to double post.
    • Yokel
    • By Yokel 4th Dec 17, 8:43 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Yokel
    • #8
    • 4th Dec 17, 8:43 PM
    • #8
    • 4th Dec 17, 8:43 PM
    So the consumer contract regulations trumps their t and c claims that there is no contract?

    Is there any specific law against advertising items for sale (and in stock) on their website that they have no basis to claim they can definitely follow through with any orders of?
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 4th Dec 17, 9:03 PM
    • 4,800 Posts
    • 3,167 Thanks
    KeithP
    • #9
    • 4th Dec 17, 9:03 PM
    • #9
    • 4th Dec 17, 9:03 PM
    I take it I can't report them to trading standards either.

    Can't seem to edit posts so had to double post.
    Originally posted by Yokel
    Of course you can edit posts.

    It's the interface you are choosing to use that is restricting your ability to edit posts.

    Try accessing the forum via web browser.
    .
    • Yokel
    • By Yokel 4th Dec 17, 9:11 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Yokel
    I am on a web browser. The edit post option is greyed out.
    • steampowered
    • By steampowered 4th Dec 17, 11:42 PM
    • 1,959 Posts
    • 1,831 Thanks
    steampowered
    It sounds very odd that they are insisting on delivering to you. Which will involve additional cost for them when you simply return it.

    I would try to cancel your order in your account online, or send them an email.
    • DCFC79
    • By DCFC79 5th Dec 17, 12:08 AM
    • 30,444 Posts
    • 19,242 Thanks
    DCFC79
    I am on a web browser. The edit post option is greyed out.
    Originally posted by Yokel
    All of us who use the forum use a web browser.
    Can people stop loaning money/being a guarator to family/friends, it rarely ends well and you lose out as your money is gone or you get shafted with being a guarantor.
    • Yokel
    • By Yokel 5th Dec 17, 1:40 AM
    • 14 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Yokel
    I assume they thought I was using tapatalk. Either way I am unable to edit on a browser regardless.
    • Yokel
    • By Yokel 5th Dec 17, 1:43 AM
    • 14 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Yokel
    @steampowered - I don't want to cancel the order. I just want them to actually honour it and stop lying to me about when they will send it.

    It's annoying also that they take money on dispatch when I ordered it nearly 2 months ago because I knew I had the money available for it. These delays are meaning the money is coming out at a time when I need it more for xmas shopping.
    • Fosterdog
    • By Fosterdog 5th Dec 17, 6:59 AM
    • 3,452 Posts
    • 5,896 Thanks
    Fosterdog
    @steampowered - I don't want to cancel the order. I just want them to actually honour it and stop lying to me about when they will send it.

    It's annoying also that they take money on dispatch when I ordered it nearly 2 months ago because I knew I had the money available for it. These delays are meaning the money is coming out at a time when I need it more for xmas shopping.
    Originally posted by Yokel
    You canít force somebody to tell the truth, either wait for the item or cancel the order, thereís nothing you can do to get it sooner. They may not be deliberately lying, they may have promise dates from their supplier, they pass that information on to you and then their supplier lets them down.

    The bit about the money makes no sense, you had the money available so unless you choose to spend it on something else, which is nobodyís fault but yours, you will still have the money in the account when they try to take it. If you cannot manage your money properly that is not theirs nor anybody elseís fault.
    • steampowered
    • By steampowered 5th Dec 17, 10:55 AM
    • 1,959 Posts
    • 1,831 Thanks
    steampowered
    @steampowered - I don't want to cancel the order. I just want them to actually honour it and stop lying to me about when they will send it.
    Originally posted by Yokel
    You can't force them to do this unfortunately. You can either cancel the order, or complain and hope for the best.

    It's annoying also that they take money on dispatch when I ordered it nearly 2 months ago because I knew I had the money available for it. These delays are meaning the money is coming out at a time when I need it more for xmas shopping.
    I'm not sure I understand this. It shouldn't matter whether they took the money then or on dispatch. The balance left for your Xmas shopping shouldn't be any different.
    • Yokel
    • By Yokel 5th Dec 17, 6:32 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Yokel
    @fosterdog

    I can manage my money fine so don't be so condescending. It's not that hard to read my post.

    I ordered it knowing I would have the money available in the bank for the date they agreed to dispatch initially. I am not psychic so was not going to expect them to keep on changing the dispatch date on their end (it still shows the original dispatch date on my order page).

    I have had unexpected bills in the last few weeks so the left over money I have is supposed to be set aside for xmas. Not for something that should have been paid for in early October.

    Now, is anybody here able to tell me whether there is a law against selling items they do not have a guarantee for?
    • Anoneemoose
    • By Anoneemoose 5th Dec 17, 6:47 PM
    • 1,851 Posts
    • 2,205 Thanks
    Anoneemoose
    @fosterdog

    I can manage my money fine so don't be so condescending. It's not that hard to read my post.

    I ordered it knowing I would have the money available in the bank for the date they agreed to dispatch initially. I am not psychic so was not going to expect them to keep on changing the dispatch date on their end (it still shows the original dispatch date on my order page).

    I have had unexpected bills in the last few weeks so the left over money I have is supposed to be set aside for xmas. Not for something that should have been paid for in early October.

    Now, is anybody here able to tell me whether there is a law against selling items they do not have a guarantee for?
    Originally posted by Yokel
    Others have already pointed out that what they are doing is perfectly legal. So, no, there is no law as such that stops them doing that. Your questions have been answered, just not in the way you want, it would seem.

    I agree with the others. If you have spent (for example) £50 on a gift and that money is earmarked in your bank for that gift, it should be irrelevant what else happens in your bank account.

    In addition to which, can you imagine how annoyed you would feel if they HAD taken the money but not been able to provide it and you had to wait for a refund?
    • Yokel
    • By Yokel 5th Dec 17, 7:07 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Yokel
    I would rather they had taken the money then I would have been able to do more legally. It's not irrelevant as when you plan your money ahead of time you expect it to be as you planned. Not for some company to screw it up. I'm sorry it's so hard to understand that someone who manages their money with certain expectations is annoyed when things mess up due to things outside their control.

    It's nothing to do in the way I want. I'm not being given straight answers. Just contradictory information from different people.

    And no, nobody has answered my question outright. The most said was "T&C's can't over rule contract law. If you accept an offer with intent to follow through on the offer then if you don't you are in breach of contract. You can't try and sell things you can't get your hands on to sell, there can be consequences to this." which contradicts what someone else said.

    So either I am in a contract as the law trumps t and c or I am not. Plus" you can't try and sell things you can't... " reads to me that it is against the law.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 5th Dec 17, 7:18 PM
    • 4,800 Posts
    • 3,167 Thanks
    KeithP
    I would rather they had taken the money then I would have been able to do more legally.
    Originally posted by Yokel
    Which is exactly why they don't take your money until dispatch.

    Do you understand that the Sale of Goods Act allows both parties to agree when a contract is formed?

    Zavvi proposed, and you agreed, that a contract is concluded as described in post #5.

    It is not a case of their T&Cs overriding your statutory rights.

    SoGA Section 28 refers.
    .
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