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  • FIRST POST
    • qwert yuiop
    • By qwert yuiop 4th Dec 17, 5:57 PM
    • 2,134Posts
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    qwert yuiop
    Exit brexit?
    • #1
    • 4th Dec 17, 5:57 PM
    Exit brexit? 4th Dec 17 at 5:57 PM
    Proving to be a bit more difficult than imagined, isn’t it?

    We’re a special case. So is London, so is Scotland, so is Gibraltar.

    What’s the likelihood of it just not happening at all?
Page 3
    • Private Church
    • By Private Church 7th Dec 17, 8:35 PM
    • 497 Posts
    • 1,535 Thanks
    Private Church
    I’m neither bitter nor twisted, and I fully agree that brexit would mean cheap food from abroad. You know about the CAP, you know that has led to a level of cost unsustainable on the world market, and certainly unable to compete with the low cost ranch style of beef production in South America. Although of course who knows what level the pound will find in a couple of years’ time? To early to say what we’ll be able to afford from abroad.
    Originally posted by qwert yuiop
    I agree the CAP has been a massive problem but with regards to the World Market ,back in around 1987 New Zealand halted farming subsidies and people said it would ring the death knell of the farming industry in New Zealand when in fact the opposite happend. The farming industry has gone from strength to strength. They were told that all the family run farms would be taken over by big multi-national companies and run on an industrial scale but it never happend and today 95% of the farms are still owned/run by the same families that ran them before the abolishion of state subsidies. New Zealand doesn't farm on the huge ranch stye system ,cattle are fed on grass out in the open like they have been doing for decades.

    You mentioned sterling value but the truth is it was always going to de-value at some point due to being artificially high and that was down to QE and HPI.You can't print money and not have any concequences, Brexit vote only reduced the value sooner than most people expected. Correct me if I'm wrong but Sterling value is back to what it was in around 2011 well before the referendum, currency values rise and fall all the time.

    My point is all of these "experts" such as the IMF,CBI etc have no credibility as they have been proved wrong numerous times. The scaremongering that has gone on from the remain side is every bit as bad as the claims made by some in the leave camp.



    I’m sure you’re aware of the strange phenomenon of people voting directly contrary to their own interests. In the case of farmers, there are so many aspects to farming that one change, such as an increase in barley prices, would mean a boost to cereal growers and a blow to the pig farmers whose businesses are based on grain as a feed. What sort of farmers voted out? Who voted in? I don’t know either.
    Well what we can be sure of is the NFU advised them to vote to remain, the very people who are the mouth piece of the farming community wanted them to vote to remain and they did the opposite.

    There was so much nonsense promoted around brexit. What about 350million a week for the health service? I haven’t heard so much about that recently.
    And there wasn't any nonsense promoted by the remain camp?. I remember Gideon being interviewed on TV whan asked about what would happen if the country voted to leave and he said "The following day after the vote there would need to be an emergency budget ,taxes would need to rise and there would need to be extra cuts made to the NHS budget" well that never happend and was pretty disgraceful scaremongering.

    The £350m figure was the gross figure we pay into the EU but they should have taken off the UK rebate etc so the more accurate amount would be around £175m which I'm sure you'll agree is a good amount to have to invest back into the NHS every week. Smoke and mirrors wasn't only used by the leave campaign.
    Last edited by Private Church; 07-12-2017 at 8:46 PM.
    • Private Church
    • By Private Church 7th Dec 17, 9:18 PM
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    Private Church
    That seems to be common with brexit. Status quo was the best option.
    Originally posted by phillw
    If you think remaining in the EU was/is a "status Quo" then clearly your understanding of the EU is limited.
    • qwert yuiop
    • By qwert yuiop 7th Dec 17, 9:27 PM
    • 2,134 Posts
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    qwert yuiop
    New Zealand’s major exports are farm products. The value of its dollar follows agricultural prices closely. This facilitates its export trade. It was their falling dollar that saved their farmers back then. Their farms are colossal, cattle and sheep holdings in particular are huge - ranch type of extensive grazing based livestock production by definition.
    Last edited by qwert yuiop; 07-12-2017 at 9:30 PM.
    • phillw
    • By phillw 7th Dec 17, 9:38 PM
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    phillw
    Then we have the fact that the EU takes money from the UK taxpayer and spends it in Poland ,builds factories that make the same products but at a cheaper cost so the fact is the Poles are undercutting the UK and the Germans and the best bit is we are paying for it.
    Originally posted by Private Church
    Surely that is in the interest of leavers who want to stop foreigners coming here. In a few years time Polands economy improves, they need to buy range rovers etc.

    That is the whole point of the EU & why we suggested it's creation after the second world war.

    But some people don't see the big picture and just want to know what they get out of it today.

    If you think remaining in the EU was/is a "status Quo" then clearly your understanding of the EU is limited.
    Originally posted by Private Church
    It's a status Quo in comparison to the damage that we're self inflicting in some naive attempt to flex our muscles. I understand the EU, it works much better than our own government ever has.

    The scaremongering that has gone on from the remain side is every bit as bad as the claims made by some in the leave camp.
    Originally posted by Private Church
    What scaremongering? leave just told you what would happen. Like that we'd leave the single market. Tosh said Bojo, people believed him & it looks like we are leaving the single market and that was the plan all along. The lies that leave told were all about fostering hatred and resentment towards foreigners, because that was the only way they were going to con you all into voting that way (some people had already been manipulated into hatred and resentment towards foreigners and had already made up their mind).

    There will be a weinstein moment eventually, where people say "yes, I voted to leave the EU but they were different times. It seemed that it was acceptable"
    Last edited by phillw; 07-12-2017 at 9:48 PM.
    • Private Church
    • By Private Church 7th Dec 17, 10:23 PM
    • 497 Posts
    • 1,535 Thanks
    Private Church
    New Zealand’s major exports are farm products. The value of its dollar follows agricultural prices closely. This facilitates its export trade. It was their falling dollar that saved their farmers back then. Their farms are colossal, cattle and sheep holdings in particular are huge - ranch type of extensive grazing based livestock production by definition.
    Originally posted by qwert yuiop
    Well apparently Sterling is plummeting and it may well be a blessing in disguise. Bit tongue in cheek comment however New Zealand farming industry has moved forward ever since they abolished subsidies around 1987. Can you post a link to support your view that the fall in the value of the NZ$ saved their farming industry?. Glad we agree on NZ farms grazing their cattle rather than in sheds being fed silage . I fully accept NZ farms tend to be on a larger scale but that does not mean UK farms cannot compete.
    • Private Church
    • By Private Church 7th Dec 17, 10:41 PM
    • 497 Posts
    • 1,535 Thanks
    Private Church

    That is the whole point of the EU & why we suggested it's creation after the second world war.
    Originally posted by phillw
    As I posted previously ,if the Govt had been honest in the past and told the UK public that the EU would take the wealth from the West and give it to the East ,making the working class poorer they would never have voted to join. It was never advertised as "Wealth re-distribution".

    Good luck with justifying the EU building Factories in Poland directly competing with Western factories making the same products but cheaper, undercutting the labour force in the West just so the EU can expand its empire Eastwards, its pathetic.

    But some people don't see the big picture and just want to know what they get out of it today.
    Personally I thought long and hard about which way to vote and voted in the best interests of my children and not my own personal gain. I've never accepted this Freedom of movement bulls*it where immigration from poorer countries would add to this country. Fully accept anyone to come here with the skills we lack but businesses/Governments have used this excuse not to train our own people. We don't need low skilled Romanian picking carrots for £7.50hr whilst topping up their incomes with tax credits ,child tax credits and housing benefit.



    It's a status Quo in comparison to the damage that we're self inflicting in some naive attempt to flex our muscles. I understand the EU, it works much better than our own government ever has.
    Rubbish.Its not a "status Quo" at all. You clearly don't understand how the EU works. I remember back in the mid 1980's when the EU gave farmers subsidies to grub out all the hedge rows to increase production only for a few years later the EU gave them subsidies to plant hedge row to help the enviroment.. You couldn't make it up and you claim the EU is run better than the UK Governments. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

    Hamish et al have been proved wrong numerous times with regards to this. We were told by the remoaners that those of us who were posting about the proposed EU Army were scaremongering then 3 weeks ago every country with the exception of Eire (who have indicated they will sign up) signed up for the beginnings of an EU army. The EU openly admit they to need further integration to survive and this means becoming a Federalist State and its no secret. Educate yourself and you will clearly see its NOT a "status Quo".


    The lies that leave told were all about fostering hatred and resentment towards foreigners, because that was the only way they were going to con you all into voting that way (some people had already been manipulated into hatred and resentment towards foreigners and had already made up their mind).
    The racists bigots number very few, in fact probably the same number as the saddo remaoners who label everyone who voted leave as a racist.The idiots don't even know the definition of "racism FFS.

    There will be a weinstein moment eventually, where people say "yes, I voted to leave the EU but they were different times. It seemed that it was acceptable"
    Never gonna happen but if it helps you "get off" then you keep thinking it...........
    Last edited by Private Church; 07-12-2017 at 10:44 PM.
    • qwert yuiop
    • By qwert yuiop 8th Dec 17, 4:17 AM
    • 2,134 Posts
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    qwert yuiop
    I’m sure you’re well capable of looking up the value of the nz dollar post 1987 and the roger Douglas chicago school directed reforms.
    Actually we probably can’t compete unless our land values collapse to the same extent as theirs, and the climatic benefits they have ( longer grass growing season) cannot be replicated. Perhaps you can also provide the link to show 95% of farms survived.
    Since we now agree that cattle production there also relies on extensive economies of scale, as I wrote earlier, perhaps you’ve an alternative cheaper and appropriate means of feeding in the winter than what farmers here have to use due to climate?
    Last edited by qwert yuiop; 08-12-2017 at 4:19 AM.
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 8th Dec 17, 7:35 AM
    • 15,792 Posts
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    motorguy
    Well it looks like we have a deal....

    Deal agreed in Brexit talks - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42277040
    You are not special. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.
    • qwert yuiop
    • By qwert yuiop 8th Dec 17, 10:02 AM
    • 2,134 Posts
    • 1,247 Thanks
    qwert yuiop
    Well it looks like we have a deal....

    Deal agreed in Brexit talks - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42277040
    Originally posted by motorguy
    Indeed. Now ...tiocfaidh Arlene?
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 8th Dec 17, 10:45 AM
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    motorguy
    The few extra days negotiating has been well worth it if it guarantees our rights as UK citizens.
    You are not special. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.
    • RikM
    • By RikM 8th Dec 17, 11:52 AM
    • 578 Posts
    • 306 Thanks
    RikM
    I particularly liked the bit of verbal judo, where it appears to be agreed that Britain will follow EU rules even if we go for hard Brexit... Just to preserve the "no hard border".
    • qwert yuiop
    • By qwert yuiop 8th Dec 17, 12:30 PM
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    qwert yuiop
    Seems the dup won in a weird pointless way - they demanded Northern Ireland be treated the same as England. What we’ve got is England being treated the same as Northern Ireland would have been under the deal that Arlene rejected. This really means the uk As a whole has to stay in the customs union and single market. Goodbye to all those fantasies of trade deals with japan and everywhere else. Meaning - what’s the point of brexit? It’s not going to happen in anything like the way it was planned, so why do it at all?

    So the Northern Ireland tail is wagging the brexit dog. They could of course avoid this ignominy by dumping us. There’s a thought - would the “swivel eyed loons” of brexit prefer to abandon Northern Ireland to get their way? We should be told.

    Get a few hundredweight of spuds and plenty of firewood in just in case.
    Last edited by qwert yuiop; 08-12-2017 at 12:35 PM.
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 8th Dec 17, 1:03 PM
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    motorguy
    Seems the dup won in a weird pointless way - they demanded Northern Ireland be treated the same as England. What we’ve got is England being treated the same as Northern Ireland would have been under the deal that Arlene rejected. This really means the uk As a whole has to stay in the customs union and single market. Goodbye to all those fantasies of trade deals with japan and everywhere else. Meaning - what’s the point of brexit? It’s not going to happen in anything like the way it was planned, so why do it at all?

    So the Northern Ireland tail is wagging the brexit dog. They could of course avoid this ignominy by dumping us. There’s a thought - would the “swivel eyed loons” of brexit prefer to abandon Northern Ireland to get their way? We should be told.

    Get a few hundredweight of spuds and plenty of firewood in just in case.
    Originally posted by qwert yuiop
    Rather than elaborating a one liner out to an entire doomsday scenario, maybe lets just see how it pans out?
    You are not special. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.
    • qwert yuiop
    • By qwert yuiop 8th Dec 17, 1:16 PM
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    qwert yuiop
    Rather than elaborating a one liner out to an entire doomsday scenario, maybe lets just see how it pans out?
    Originally posted by motorguy
    Yea, but I’ve a lot of firewood here for sale. Make me an offer.
    • tara747
    • By tara747 8th Dec 17, 2:05 PM
    • 10,089 Posts
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    tara747
    The few extra days negotiating has been well worth it if it guarantees our rights as UK citizens.
    Originally posted by motorguy
    I think the GFA did that, not sure what extra 'guarantee' has been provided this week?

    Anyway, looks like we are headed for a soft Brexit, unless the Tory right wingers go mad...
    Get to 119lbs! 1/2/09: 135.6lbs 1/5/11: 145.8lbs 30/3/13 150lbs 22/2/14 137lbs 2/6/14 128lbs 29/8/14 124lbs 2/6/17 126lbs
    Save £120,000 by 31 Dec 2017! Dec 2011: £54,342 * Dec 2012: £62,200 * Dec 2013: £74,127 * Dec 2014: £84,839 * Dec 2015: £95,207 * Dec 2016: £109,122
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    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 8th Dec 17, 2:27 PM
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    motorguy
    Yea, but I’ve a lot of firewood here for sale. Make me an offer.
    Originally posted by qwert yuiop
    lol. preparing for new opportunities. I like it!
    You are not special. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.
    • tara747
    • By tara747 8th Dec 17, 3:59 PM
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    tara747
    They want to "punish" us for daring to leave, to put other countries off doing the same thing.
    Originally posted by motorguy

    I think the UK is punishing itself, if anything. Other member states are watching the UK's Python-esque indecision, lack of preparedness and internal quarrels with bewilderment.

    This journalist sums it up well:

    "There is no wish to “punish” Britain; why would you punish somebody for cutting off their own arm? Feelings of denial, shock or anger in Europe seem largely gone, too, and, these days, sentiment in EU corridors is perhaps best described as genuine pity."
    Get to 119lbs! 1/2/09: 135.6lbs 1/5/11: 145.8lbs 30/3/13 150lbs 22/2/14 137lbs 2/6/14 128lbs 29/8/14 124lbs 2/6/17 126lbs
    Save £120,000 by 31 Dec 2017! Dec 2011: £54,342 * Dec 2012: £62,200 * Dec 2013: £74,127 * Dec 2014: £84,839 * Dec 2015: £95,207 * Dec 2016: £109,122
    eBay sales - £4,559.89 Cashback - £2,109.36
    • qwert yuiop
    • By qwert yuiop 8th Dec 17, 4:52 PM
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    qwert yuiop

    Anyway, looks like we are headed for a soft Brexit, unless the Tory right wingers go mad...
    Originally posted by tara747
    Seems Farage is pretty upset, so a brexiteers’ rebellion is always a possibility.
    • qwert yuiop
    • By qwert yuiop 8th Dec 17, 4:57 PM
    • 2,134 Posts
    • 1,247 Thanks
    qwert yuiop
    I think the UK is punishing itself, if anything. Other member states are watching the UK's Python-esque indecision, lack of preparedness and internal quarrels with bewilderment.

    This journalist sums it up well:

    "There is no wish to “punish” Britain; why would you punish somebody for cutting off their own arm? Feelings of denial, shock or anger in Europe seem largely gone, too, and, these days, sentiment in EU corridors is perhaps best described as genuine pity."
    Originally posted by tara747
    There hasn’t exactly been a rush for the exit door by the other states. Marine le pen was never going to win the French election and geert wilders was even less likely to make it in Holland.
    • x12yhp
    • By x12yhp 8th Dec 17, 11:49 PM
    • 756 Posts
    • 416 Thanks
    x12yhp
    I think the UK is punishing itself, if anything. Other member states are watching the UK's Python-esque indecision, lack of preparedness and internal quarrels with bewilderment.

    This journalist sums it up well:

    "There is no wish to “punish” Britain; why would you punish somebody for cutting off their own arm? Feelings of denial, shock or anger in Europe seem largely gone, too, and, these days, sentiment in EU corridors is perhaps best described as genuine pity."
    Originally posted by tara747
    I agree. There is argument that the uk will be a critical customer to the eu so the eu should be nice. But what about the eu being a critical customer to the uk... proponents of the above seem to ignore that the uk just told the eu to get lost. These arguments often boil down to people choosing to reference the side of the story that supports what they are saying. But this is the internet and everyone has intelligence way above average.
    Always overestimating...
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