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  • FIRST POST
    • RetiredButNotDeadYet
    • By RetiredButNotDeadYet 4th Dec 17, 5:51 PM
    • 10Posts
    • 1Thanks
    RetiredButNotDeadYet
    Ideal Boiler problem
    • #1
    • 4th Dec 17, 5:51 PM
    Ideal Boiler problem 4th Dec 17 at 5:51 PM
    Hi
    I wonder if I could have some advice on this situation.

    In Jan 2014 a local GasSafe engineer installed a brand new Logic+24 boiler.

    He told me it was 5 years warranty, and now to worry , he already registered the warranty with Ideal, and he gave me an 18 digit alphanumeric reference number for this.

    The boiler, now 3.5 years old has started to lose pressure - . I Have done the suggested diagnostics, ie

    1. Checked all the pipework and radiators for leaks, there definitely are none.
    2. Pressure boiler up to 1.5 bar, turn off power, close boiler isolating valves. Pressure still drops.Boiler will go from 1.5 bar to zero over about 12 hours, and drops faster when boiler is off.

    Tried to locate the original engineer,looks like he's retired and cleared off to Spain.

    Rang Ideal. First thing they said was the boiler warranty wasnt registered with them. When pressured about the 18 digit g'tee reference number id got, they tried to say the engineer had registered it but i also had to activate it. I told them i was not told this and assumed that number was all that was required. They demanded £125 to 'activate; the G'tee, which I reluctantly paid becuse i want the boiler fixed. They wriggled a bit, They asked me if it had been serviced. It hasnt, but I pointed out serviced or not, its should last more than 3.5 years.

    Ive googed the fault, the suggestion is its either the Pressure Relief Vale, the Expanions Tank or the Heater core. Either way, ist all covered in the 5 year g'tee (which again contradicts what we recall the engineer saying, he told us 7 years). They said faults caused by not having it serviced would be chargeable. I pointed out Sale of Goods Act, it must be merchantable quality, and by any measure a boiler should last more than 3.5 years. They indicated they were the sole arbiters of manufacturing fault.

    However, they booked an engineer to call on 12th Dec, one week form now. so we'll see what happens,.

    How do I stand here?
    Last edited by RetiredButNotDeadYet; 04-12-2017 at 6:03 PM.
Page 1
    • adonis
    • By adonis 4th Dec 17, 6:45 PM
    • 724 Posts
    • 677 Thanks
    adonis
    • #2
    • 4th Dec 17, 6:45 PM
    • #2
    • 4th Dec 17, 6:45 PM
    I think the main issue is that the boiler hasn't been serviced, all you can do is wait and see what happens when the engineer arrives.

    Let us know what happens and make sure you have it serviced every year.
    • Peter999
    • By Peter999 4th Dec 17, 7:04 PM
    • 483 Posts
    • 515 Thanks
    Peter999
    • #3
    • 4th Dec 17, 7:04 PM
    • #3
    • 4th Dec 17, 7:04 PM
    My ideal boiler has a seven year guarantee, but it quite clearly said it has to be serviced every year for the guarantee to be honoured.

    The guy who installed it for me comes every year and services it (not that there is much to service these days).
    • RetiredButNotDeadYet
    • By RetiredButNotDeadYet 4th Dec 17, 7:08 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    RetiredButNotDeadYet
    • #4
    • 4th Dec 17, 7:08 PM
    • #4
    • 4th Dec 17, 7:08 PM
    Seems that the issue is "Would the fault have been prevented had the boiler been servced?" If its the worst case scenarior, the heater Core is leaking, then those who know in other places say this is a known issue with them ,and would not have been prevented by servicing. So are they not on dodgy ground if they refuse to repair under warranty on the basis of non-service, since the fault woudl not have been prevented by servicing?

    So, planning ahead, if they are awkward, and demand large bags of money from me , would it be worth offering a compromise and saying ill pay for the parts if they fit them free, bearing in mind ive already given them £120, and I was unaware of the warranty conditions, having never seen or signed such a warranty (the engineer did it)
    • Alex1983
    • By Alex1983 4th Dec 17, 7:52 PM
    • 672 Posts
    • 379 Thanks
    Alex1983
    • #5
    • 4th Dec 17, 7:52 PM
    • #5
    • 4th Dec 17, 7:52 PM
    Ideal are terrible for warranty work, they will probably ask for the benchmark first, check the service details are filled in, do water sample and check it’s installed exactly to the manufacturer instructions.

    From the 2nd test you’ve done you’ve proved it’s the boiler, tie a sandwich bag over the PRV pipe outside and see if it fills with water if it doesn’t it has to be the heat exchanger.
    • RetiredButNotDeadYet
    • By RetiredButNotDeadYet 4th Dec 17, 8:06 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    RetiredButNotDeadYet
    • #6
    • 4th Dec 17, 8:06 PM
    • #6
    • 4th Dec 17, 8:06 PM
    which is the pvr pipe, there s 15mm copper pipe with domed end an slot, and a 5 inch flue thing. Its the smaller pipe ?
    • Alex1983
    • By Alex1983 4th Dec 17, 8:10 PM
    • 672 Posts
    • 379 Thanks
    Alex1983
    • #7
    • 4th Dec 17, 8:10 PM
    • #7
    • 4th Dec 17, 8:10 PM
    Yes the 15mm copper pipe.
    • RetiredButNotDeadYet
    • By RetiredButNotDeadYet 5th Dec 17, 12:43 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    RetiredButNotDeadYet
    • #8
    • 5th Dec 17, 12:43 PM
    • #8
    • 5th Dec 17, 12:43 PM
    Interesting. I havent done the PVR pipe test, it looks dry though. Theres a third pipe, a 3/4" white plastic pipe that goes into the washing machine waste pipe. That couod be where the water is going. What does that pipe drain ?

    More interestingly, i pressured it up at 20:00 last night, to 1.75 bar , its not lost any pressure at all since then. Its still 1.75 cold and about 1.9 running.

    A pinhole in the heater core would not self heal, once its holed its holed, and stays holed until repaired. I wouldnt have thought such a fault could be intermittent, so maybe this is a badly behaving pressure release valve, which could easilty be intermittent
    • Alex1983
    • By Alex1983 5th Dec 17, 1:06 PM
    • 672 Posts
    • 379 Thanks
    Alex1983
    • #9
    • 5th Dec 17, 1:06 PM
    • #9
    • 5th Dec 17, 1:06 PM
    That’s the condense pipework, if the heat exchanger has failed that is where the water will go, down the condense pipe. I’d run it for a few days with the PRV bagged up and see what happens. You can remove the condense from the waste pipe and put it in to a bowl with the boiler off for a day or so and see if water goes into the bowl, this will prove the heat exchanger, YOU CANNOT RUN the boiler while you have the condense out of the waste pipe.

    I’ve seen a heat exchanger leak internally before but intermittently at a certain temperature, it must expand and leak when hot.
    • RetiredButNotDeadYet
    • By RetiredButNotDeadYet 5th Dec 17, 1:11 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    RetiredButNotDeadYet
    Seems that the hotter it is,the less it leaks. But then. like i said, off all last night, no pressure drop. Doesnt make sense. Ill set the the VR bag test up later today.

    Somone is having a larf here , i think ... God taking the p**s....
    • RetiredButNotDeadYet
    • By RetiredButNotDeadYet 6th Dec 17, 11:53 AM
    • 10 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    RetiredButNotDeadYet
    No water loss from PVR pipe, and no pressure loss for 36 hours. Surely this is looking like a misbehaving Pressure Release valve?
    • macman
    • By macman 6th Dec 17, 6:45 PM
    • 41,425 Posts
    • 17,050 Thanks
    macman
    You've wasted £125, as the 5 year warranty will have been invalidated because you didn't get it serviced annually. You therefore have no possibility of a warranty claim against the manufacturer. The fact that you were unaware of the terms is not the fault of Ideal-and the annual service is always a requirement for a warranty claim.
    Your statutory rights under SOGA are with the retailer, not the manufacturer. The installer, who is no longer trading, was the person with whom you contracted, not Ideal. Therefore you have no possibility of a claim under SOGA, which after 3.5 years would be unlikely to succeed anyway, even if you could make it.
    A repair to the EV or PRV is a fairly small job and probably would cost you less than the £125 already spent.
    If ideal were aware that the boiler had not been serviced, then you were mis-sold the 'activation'.
    Last edited by macman; 06-12-2017 at 6:49 PM.
    No free lunch, and no free laptop
    • RetiredButNotDeadYet
    • By RetiredButNotDeadYet 6th Dec 17, 7:01 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    RetiredButNotDeadYet
    Hmm.

    So whats my plan of action when the guy turns up monday.?

    The boiler has not misbehaved since monday.

    Do i cancel and try and get my £125 back? What if I could track the installer down ?
    • Silvester89
    • By Silvester89 6th Dec 17, 7:06 PM
    • 81 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    Silvester89
    On a sidenote, Ideal changed their warranty from 7 years to 5 years around 2012. I know because that's when we had ours installed and we had ours installed just before the warranty changed
    • adonis
    • By adonis 6th Dec 17, 7:44 PM
    • 724 Posts
    • 677 Thanks
    adonis
    7 year warranty at the moment, and 10 years for heat exchanger, obviously you need to meet the terms and conditions.
    http://idealboilers.com/products/boiler-range/logic-plus

    I think the £125 is for the extended warranty with Domestic and General insurance for the boiler.
    • adonis
    • By adonis 6th Dec 17, 7:51 PM
    • 724 Posts
    • 677 Thanks
    adonis
    Hmm.

    So whats my plan of action when the guy turns up monday.?

    The boiler has not misbehaved since monday.

    Do i cancel and try and get my £125 back? What if I could track the installer down ?
    Originally posted by RetiredButNotDeadYet
    You said the 12th that's Tuesday, if you cancel it and manage to get your £125 back what will you do if it goes bang a week later?
    • RetiredButNotDeadYet
    • By RetiredButNotDeadYet 6th Dec 17, 8:34 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    RetiredButNotDeadYet
    Well, it depends what they guy is going to do for £125. I think they said the £125 was for 'activation' of the warranty and to pay the bloke to come and diagnose it. If thers no fault when he turns up, what then?

    Too many variables at the moment to make a judgement call :-(
    • southcoastrgi
    • By southcoastrgi 6th Dec 17, 10:46 PM
    • 5,250 Posts
    • 3,056 Thanks
    southcoastrgi
    You have just been ripped off by the worst customer service in the industry, if your installer registered the boiler with Ideal that is all that is needed you didn’t need to do anything, yes it has to be serviced every year the same as every other manufacturer, the sooner people stop fitting these boilers the better it will be
    I'm only here while I wait for Corrie to start.

    You get no BS from me & if I think you are wrong I WILL tell you.
    • RetiredButNotDeadYet
    • By RetiredButNotDeadYet 6th Dec 17, 11:39 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    RetiredButNotDeadYet
    So how do i stand? can i get my £125 back? If not, what should these people be obliged to do now they took my money ? If ive paid £125 to 'activate' the warranty, as they implied. should i expect the guy to fix it now with no further charge ?
    • RetiredButNotDeadYet
    • By RetiredButNotDeadYet 15th Dec 17, 4:07 AM
    • 10 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    RetiredButNotDeadYet
    UPDATE;

    Well the guy from Ideal turned up. He had a quick look, and then spotted that there was a problem with the gas pipe outside. Now, this pipe has been there as long as we have , 18 years, and weve had three gas meter changes, a new boiler, and other stuff, absolutely no one has ever commented on the pipe until now.

    The problem, according to this guy, is there was a plastic Speedfit connector joning the pipe. He said this was illegal, wrote out a notice saying it was dangerous , and phoned Transco. They turned up 20 minutes later and cut the gas supply to the house, despite me pointing out there was no leak, and never had been in 20 years, and even if there was, there was no danger to the house 'cos the pipe was outside..

    So the useless tool from Ideal didnt repair the heating, quite the opposite, he left us with no heating or cooking. Anyway, i got hold of a Plumber, an hour later he turned up, replaced the joint, and powere it all back up

    Now, in the week prior to this, the boiler hasnt lost pressure. and still running now. The Ideal guy said he didnt think there was anything wrong with the boiler, and it could be caused by an egg cup full of water leaking out the pipes.

    Now, I know this is wrong on two counts. First, we proved it was the boiler, by closing the isolation valves, cutting the boiler off from the pipework. It still lost pressure. Second, having moved and changed a couple of radiators over the years, i know that to lose 1.5 bar pressure our system has to lose approx 1 litre of water, not an egg cup full. So, in short he gave me a load of bull, said he'd come back when the gas pipe was fixed, and scarpered.

    And I still dont know if the g'tee has been reinstated or not.

    So, since it now works ok again, ill wait till spring, forget the g'tee and get a local gassafe plumber to service it. - and Ill not be ringing Ideal. As someone else said, "Congratulations, you;'ve just been ripped off by the worst Customer Services in the Industry"
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