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    • savingisthegame
    • By savingisthegame 4th Dec 17, 11:49 AM
    • 12Posts
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    savingisthegame
    Parking Charge on a personal leased car
    • #1
    • 4th Dec 17, 11:49 AM
    Parking Charge on a personal leased car 4th Dec 17 at 11:49 AM
    Hi Guys,

    received a "parking charge" from UKP

    leasing the car. They are named as registered keeper of the car.

    I know on the leasing terms it says all fine etc are paid by them then they send the bill to me with an admin charge on top.

    So what are the options?

    Thanks in advance ��
    Last edited by savingisthegame; 08-12-2017 at 11:34 AM.
Page 1
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 4th Dec 17, 12:06 PM
    • 15,870 Posts
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    Umkomaas
    • #2
    • 4th Dec 17, 12:06 PM
    • #2
    • 4th Dec 17, 12:06 PM
    If all you’ve received is a windscreen ticket then you need to distract the PPC from contacting the DVLA to obtain the RK’s details. If they do so, the danger is that the hire company will blindly pay the charge, bill you for it and add a tasty admin fee for themselves.

    You do this by appealing to the PPC (NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post # 1, blue text template) around day 25 after the parking event. You are the (day-to-day) Keeper of the vehicle and can argue that the PPC, by not fulfilling the requirements of PoFA (no Notice to Keeper), cannot hold you liable. You will win this at POPLA.

    The alternative strategy is to contact your hire company and ask them how they would deal with a private Parking charge invoice, as opposed to a council parking penalty. Do they follow the advice given by their trade body, the BVRLA in the Memorandum of Understanding (MoU)with the British Parking Association.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/9b0iavad3aqeh28/BPA%20BVRLA%20MoU.pdf?dl=0

    Talk to them about the possibility that they might get a NtK from UKPC (if you don’t follow option 1 above) and would they handle it precisely in the way the MoU and the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 provides for.

    Then you need to decide how you want to play this.

    Here’s an example of the potential mess you can hopefully avoid.

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5740216
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • StaffsSW
    • By StaffsSW 4th Dec 17, 12:30 PM
    • 5,383 Posts
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    StaffsSW
    • #3
    • 4th Dec 17, 12:30 PM
    • #3
    • 4th Dec 17, 12:30 PM
    If all you’ve received is a windscreen ticket then you need to distract the PPC from contacting the DVLA to obtain the RK’s details. If they do so, the danger is that the hire company will blindly pay the charge, bill you for it and add a tasty admin fee for themselves.
    Originally posted by Umkomaas

    This....! Hitachi will pay it as soon as it arrives, and you lose any chance of appeal. It's arguably harder to extract yourself from that payment than it is UKPC. Hitachi are just an asset finance company, and have very little knowledge of the day to day issues of vehicle supply.

    Contact UKPC as Keeper, but also contact Hitachi to let them know you are dealing with it.
    <--- Nothing to see here - move along --->
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 4th Dec 17, 12:42 PM
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    Umkomaas
    • #4
    • 4th Dec 17, 12:42 PM
    • #4
    • 4th Dec 17, 12:42 PM
    Good advice from StaffsSW - he’s very experienced on the care hire front. Go with it.

    Thanks SSW.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • savingisthegame
    • By savingisthegame 4th Dec 17, 4:08 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    savingisthegame
    • #5
    • 4th Dec 17, 4:08 PM
    • #5
    • 4th Dec 17, 4:08 PM
    Hu guys thanks for the speedy replies ��

    So pop an email over to Hitachi say I've been issued a "Parking Charge" and that i am dealing with it directly.

    And to UKPC...

    Send an email or a letter?

    Also what exactly do i send on the noobie thread.

    I want to make sure i send the right part.

    Thanks
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 4th Dec 17, 4:17 PM
    • 15,870 Posts
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    Umkomaas
    • #6
    • 4th Dec 17, 4:17 PM
    • #6
    • 4th Dec 17, 4:17 PM
    And to UKPC...

    Send an email or a letter?
    What does their windscreen ticket say? Follow the method advised on it.

    Also what exactly do i send on the noobie thread.
    Did you miss what I said in my advice in post #2?
    You do this by appealing to the PPC (NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post # 1, blue text template) around day 25 after the parking event.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • savingisthegame
    • By savingisthegame 4th Dec 17, 4:57 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    savingisthegame
    • #7
    • 4th Dec 17, 4:57 PM
    • #7
    • 4th Dec 17, 4:57 PM
    It says on the newbies wait 25 after the event.. but then says appeal early
    If you are not the registered keeper - e.g. a hire/company/lease car - see asterisk below and appeal EARLY. *
    Why do i need to wait so long to reply? Won't that give them time to send a letter to the Leasing company?

    It says on the back of the ticket
    Part 2 - Contesting this parking charge

    Representations concerning this Parking Charge should be made within 28 days (beginning with the day after this notice was given) online at ukpcappeals or in writing ..."

    So im guessing send this template via online contact form

    "Dear Sirs

    Re: PCN No. ....................

    I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car.

    I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers."


    Thanks sorry im kinda bit confused what exactly to send!
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 4th Dec 17, 5:06 PM
    • 1,807 Posts
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    IamEmanresu
    • #8
    • 4th Dec 17, 5:06 PM
    • #8
    • 4th Dec 17, 5:06 PM
    That appeal is fine as all you want is to be able to appeal to the next stage (POPLA) and you need UKPC to reject your appeal.

    You'll need to do some work at the second stage to prevent it going back to Hitachi.
    Life's for living, get on with it rather than worrying about these. If they hassle, counter claim.

    Send them that costs schedule though, 24 hours before the hearing, and file it with the court. Take with you evidence that you have sent the costs schedule to them and when.
    LoC
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 4th Dec 17, 5:40 PM
    • 15,870 Posts
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    Umkomaas
    • #9
    • 4th Dec 17, 5:40 PM
    • #9
    • 4th Dec 17, 5:40 PM
    It says on the newbies wait 25 after the event.. but then says appeal early
    If you are not the registered keeper - e.g. a hire/company/lease car - see asterisk below and appeal EARLY. *
    Why do i need to wait so long to reply? Won't that give them time to send a letter to the Leasing company?
    The PPC is unable to access the DVLA database until after day 28, so leaving it to day 25 should mean them not being able to do so.

    But, on reflection, and given Hitachi’s likelihood to blindly pay this off, by all means send the initial appeal in earlier (immediately if you wish to) and keep UKPC well clear of Hitachi. Without DVLA confirmation UKPC will have no idea that anyone other than you has any interest in the vehicle. So keep it that way.

    As IamEmanresu says, the initial appeal is purely the route to a POPLA Code.
    Last edited by Umkomaas; 04-12-2017 at 5:43 PM.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • savingisthegame
    • By savingisthegame 4th Dec 17, 5:45 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    savingisthegame
    Thanks

    So will fill I there on-line form with my name and address and as the REGISTERED KEEPER
    I have also elected to "If you would like to receive the response to your appeal by e-mail please check this box."and send them the below:

    Dear Sirs

    Re: PCN No. ....................

    I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car.

    I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers.

    There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge.

    Should you obtain the registered keeper's data from the DVLA without reasonable cause, please take this as formal notice that I reserve the right to sue your company and the landowner/principal, for a sum not less than £250 for any Data Protection Act breach. Your aggressive business practice and unwarranted threat of court for the ordinary matter of a driver using my car without causing any obstruction nor offence, has caused significant distress to me.

    I do not give you consent to process data relating to me or this vehicle. I deny liability for any sum at all and you must consider this letter a Section 10 Notice under the DPA. You are required to respond within 21 days. I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

    Yours faithfully,



    and wait for a reply.....All correct? :
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 4th Dec 17, 5:57 PM
    • 15,870 Posts
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    Umkomaas
    Have they asked you for your name and full address? If so, despite them informing you of the result by email, do provide them with the details they require. Be careful with any drop down box on their website which defaults to ‘I am/was the driver’ (even though you change it, but later make an amendment to any information, it will revert back to the default).

    If you’re giving them an email, create a throwaway via Gmail or Hotmail, so they don’t have access to your regular email, and at the end of it all you can simply delete the throwaway from your desktop.

    That is the blue text template we advise sending. I presume you’ve made no alterations to it?
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • savingisthegame
    • By savingisthegame 4th Dec 17, 6:03 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    savingisthegame
    They haven't asked for anything, just what's on the ticket which was on my windscreen, and to pay by 2 weeks for £60....then £100 la la...28 days to pay.

    I have put my full name and home address and details apart from mobile number, I used my own email address "doh"

    Yes sent the template but obviously added where it says"Re: PCN No. ...................." adding the PCP number and my name at the end after Yours faithfully,.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 4th Dec 17, 6:12 PM
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    Umkomaas
    That’s all OK, apart from the PPC rubbish infesting your regular inbox. Also there is no way of knowing whether they will selling on that email addy.

    Do they have a ‘Privacy Policy’ to which they provided a link and which you agreed to? Rhetorical question rather than one to go chasing after.

    Nothing fatal in what you’ve sent off.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • savingisthegame
    • By savingisthegame 4th Dec 17, 6:52 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    savingisthegame
    Yea now you mention is shouldn't have used my proper main email 🙄 and im an IT technician lol.

    They do have a privacy policy but not sure if i remember if it was on the form
    • savingisthegame
    • By savingisthegame 5th Dec 17, 11:26 AM
    • 12 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    savingisthegame
    Do the PPC not read these forums? Surely they know when they get appeal templates they know where they come from? ��
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 5th Dec 17, 2:24 PM
    • 1,136 Posts
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    nosferatu1001
    Yes, but noone "wins" the first appeal anyway - unless its highview, and occasionally smart. Why waste effort on them? They created an appeals system which essentially autorejects ALL appeals, so why waste time on them?
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 5th Dec 17, 2:37 PM
    • 15,870 Posts
    • 24,594 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Do the PPC not read these forums? Surely they know when they get appeal templates they know where they come from? ��
    Originally posted by savingisthegame
    But they don’t know who they come from in relation to posters on the forum. That’s why we always advise people who use their real name to change it to a pseudonym, to be careful they don’t drop identifiable litter (like PCN reference numbers, VRM and the like) throughout the thread and to redact their personal details and other identifiers in any images they link.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • StaffsSW
    • By StaffsSW 5th Dec 17, 4:43 PM
    • 5,383 Posts
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    StaffsSW
    Yes, but noone "wins" the first appeal anyway - unless its highview, and occasionally smart. Why waste effort on them? They created an appeals system which essentially autorejects ALL appeals, so why waste time on them?
    Originally posted by nosferatu1001
    As a slight aside, if we get a rejection to transfer liability on any of our fleet, I send in a letter with all of our usual appeal points to the PPC, suggesting that they transfer, cancel, or take us to court, and I no longer engage in POPLA or IAS appeals. I've got too many to deal with to jump through all of their hoops, but I've not had any new court claims raised against my fleet for a few months now.

    I do let the vehicle operators know about the tickets, and that sometimes gives me another angle to add to the defence, but generally I just focus on keeper liability issues, rather than the specific circumstances of each event.

    Of course I wouldn't recommend this course of action for any private individual!
    <--- Nothing to see here - move along --->
    • savingisthegame
    • By savingisthegame 5th Dec 17, 5:34 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    savingisthegame
    Thanks guys,

    Do I need to still contact Hitachi? tell them i have a charge notice and that i am dealing with it?
    • StaffsSW
    • By StaffsSW 5th Dec 17, 5:43 PM
    • 5,383 Posts
    • 5,423 Thanks
    StaffsSW
    Thanks guys,

    Do I need to still contact Hitachi? tell them i have a charge notice and that i am dealing with it?
    Originally posted by savingisthegame
    Yes I would, and make sure that the Fleet Admin team are aware. If you have appealed as Keeper, in theory UKPC won't need to contact Hitachi, but UKPC are not renowned for playing by the rules.

    Again, in theory, Hitachi should still transfer it to you if UKPC send a Notice to Keeper, but I think Hitachi VS pay everything on arrival and bill it to the driver.
    <--- Nothing to see here - move along --->
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