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  • FIRST POST
    • custservice
    • By custservice 4th Dec 17, 10:54 AM
    • 4Posts
    • 2Thanks
    custservice
    Animal cruelty
    • #1
    • 4th Dec 17, 10:54 AM
    Animal cruelty 4th Dec 17 at 10:54 AM
    Please think twice before purchasing products containing goose and duck feathers. These animals can be treated horrendously.

    Peta.org/features/down-investigation
Page 1
    • Blackbeard of Perranporth
    • By Blackbeard of Perranporth 4th Dec 17, 12:25 PM
    • 4,688 Posts
    • 28,349 Thanks
    Blackbeard of Perranporth
    • #2
    • 4th Dec 17, 12:25 PM
    • #2
    • 4th Dec 17, 12:25 PM
    Thanks Peter!
    I soled my last sock
    For a whiff of your cheap perfume filled with hope of tears gone by
    • firefox1956
    • By firefox1956 4th Dec 17, 1:26 PM
    • 1,382 Posts
    • 790 Thanks
    firefox1956
    • #3
    • 4th Dec 17, 1:26 PM
    • #3
    • 4th Dec 17, 1:26 PM
    Right...................
    • Carrot007
    • By Carrot007 4th Dec 17, 1:29 PM
    • 736 Posts
    • 589 Thanks
    Carrot007
    • #4
    • 4th Dec 17, 1:29 PM
    • #4
    • 4th Dec 17, 1:29 PM
    I might believe it if you cited a reliable source rather than peta who are just a joke.

    Not that I would buy such things anyway. Man made fibres are so much better and don't set off my allergies.
    • grayme-m
    • By grayme-m 4th Dec 17, 2:47 PM
    • 1,358 Posts
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    grayme-m
    • #5
    • 4th Dec 17, 2:47 PM
    • #5
    • 4th Dec 17, 2:47 PM
    I think we should all think before we buy anything.

    I did just google 'bird abuse down feathers' and the third link was from a high street chain who have a statement to say they source their feathers from birds killed for food, so that should put some minds at rest that it is not all down.
    Last edited by grayme-m; 04-12-2017 at 2:49 PM.
    Toyota - 'Always a better way', avoid buying Toyota.
    • montyrebel
    • By montyrebel 4th Dec 17, 9:45 PM
    • 552 Posts
    • 457 Thanks
    montyrebel
    • #6
    • 4th Dec 17, 9:45 PM
    • #6
    • 4th Dec 17, 9:45 PM
    Peta as a source? they kill more animals than they ever save
    mortui non mordent
    • hollydays
    • By hollydays 4th Dec 17, 9:46 PM
    • 15,624 Posts
    • 11,420 Thanks
    hollydays
    • #7
    • 4th Dec 17, 9:46 PM
    • #7
    • 4th Dec 17, 9:46 PM
    I don’t trust peta op -have you heard about the way they kill animals.
    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/nathan-j-winograd/peta-kills-puppies-kittens_b_2979220.html
    “A postcard written and signed by Ingrid Newkirk, PETA’s founder, admitting that PETA does not believe animals have a right to live, despite its public perception of PETA as an “animal rights” organization
    Last edited by hollydays; 04-12-2017 at 9:51 PM.
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 5th Dec 17, 7:35 AM
    • 18,553 Posts
    • 47,763 Thanks
    Pollycat
    • #8
    • 5th Dec 17, 7:35 AM
    • #8
    • 5th Dec 17, 7:35 AM
    I don’t trust peta op -have you heard about the way they kill animals.
    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/nathan-j-winograd/peta-kills-puppies-kittens_b_2979220.html
    “A postcard written and signed by Ingrid Newkirk, PETA’s founder, admitting that PETA does not believe animals have a right to live, despite its public perception of PETA as an “animal rights” organization
    Originally posted by hollydays
    Yes, you've posted that link before, hollydays and I was truly shocked to read about Peta.

    I remember their iconic advert from years ago that said something like "it takes about 40 dumb animals to make a fur coat but only one to wear it".

    Maybe the OP can comment on the article in your link.

    Cruelty to animals is (imho) unacceptable but for an organisation to lecture on one aspect of animal cruelty and practice something entirely different is appalling (not to mention duplicitous).
    • grayme-m
    • By grayme-m 5th Dec 17, 8:38 AM
    • 1,358 Posts
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    grayme-m
    • #9
    • 5th Dec 17, 8:38 AM
    • #9
    • 5th Dec 17, 8:38 AM
    There seems to be a general consensus that PETA are a bunch of a---holes.

    What about cruelty to birds providing feathers used in duvets?
    Toyota - 'Always a better way', avoid buying Toyota.
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 5th Dec 17, 9:05 AM
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    Pollycat
    There seems to be a general consensus that PETA are a bunch of a---holes.

    What about cruelty to birds providing feathers used in duvets?
    Originally posted by grayme-m
    I'm sure that's a bandwagon that Peta will jump on - if they haven't already.

    This is a thread that discusses Peta in the later pages:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5544187
    • grayme-m
    • By grayme-m 5th Dec 17, 9:14 AM
    • 1,358 Posts
    • 822 Thanks
    grayme-m
    I'm sure that's a bandwagon that Peta will jump on - if they haven't already.

    This is a thread that discusses Peta in the later pages:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5544187
    Originally posted by Pollycat
    It is just what this thread was about before it got derailed to condemn the source.

    I keep trying to bring it back on track.
    Toyota - 'Always a better way', avoid buying Toyota.
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 5th Dec 17, 9:58 AM
    • 18,553 Posts
    • 47,763 Thanks
    Pollycat
    It is just what this thread was about before it got derailed to condemn the source.

    I keep trying to bring it back on track.
    Originally posted by grayme-m
    OK.
    Do you have an alternative source about cruelty to birds in making feather/down coats, jackets, pillows & duvets?

    I did see a jacket in a charity shop (made in China, looked expensive) that said it was stuffed with owl feathers.
    I was quite shocked.
    • grayme-m
    • By grayme-m 5th Dec 17, 10:17 AM
    • 1,358 Posts
    • 822 Thanks
    grayme-m
    OK.
    Do you have an alternative source about cruelty to birds in making feather/down coats, jackets, pillows & duvets?

    I did see a jacket in a charity shop (made in China, looked expensive) that said it was stuffed with owl feathers.
    I was quite shocked.
    Originally posted by Pollycat
    A selection from the first two pages of a Google search, passing over PETA. I've kept the one in from the Daily Hate as while I personally think it's a sign of what's gone wrong with the world, this time their point seems valid (like PETA's).

    It's certainly served as a good reminder to think before I buy.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/23/down-comforters-animal-cruelty_n_1224517.html

    http://www.40lives.org/?lang=en

    http://www.earthbyanna.com/down-on-down-the-cruelty-free-alternatives/

    http://gentleworld.org/how-down-feathers-are-collected/

    https://www.thealternativedaily.com/need-know-feathers-comforter-came/

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2240096/Feathers-ripped-birds-backs-gaping-wounds-sewn-pain-relief-The-barbaric-cost-winter-coat.html
    Toyota - 'Always a better way', avoid buying Toyota.
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 6th Dec 17, 4:15 PM
    • 18,553 Posts
    • 47,763 Thanks
    Pollycat
    A selection from the first two pages of a Google search, passing over PETA. I've kept the one in from the Daily Hate as while I personally think it's a sign of what's gone wrong with the world, this time their point seems valid (like PETA's).

    It's certainly served as a good reminder to think before I buy.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/23/down-comforters-animal-cruelty_n_1224517.html

    http://www.40lives.org/?lang=en

    http://www.earthbyanna.com/down-on-down-the-cruelty-free-alternatives/

    http://gentleworld.org/how-down-feathers-are-collected/

    https://www.thealternativedaily.com/need-know-feathers-comforter-came/

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2240096/Feathers-ripped-birds-backs-gaping-wounds-sewn-pain-relief-The-barbaric-cost-winter-coat.html
    Originally posted by grayme-m
    Had time to look at those links.
    Some seem to be old, ranging from 2012
    Plucking of live birds seems to be mainly in Poland, China, Hungary.

    IKEA and Patagonia are duvet brands who (at the time of the article in Jan 2012 anyway) "have taken a firm stance on the issue and are transparent about exactly how the down and feathers in their products was harvested".

    Debenhams, TKMaxx, Selfridges, The White Company & Argos are all doing various positive things about not using down from live plucked or force-fed birds.
    Duvets are mentioned specifically, not sure if this extends to coats/jackets.

    3rd link is run by an Aussie and gives recommendations for products available in Australia.

    4th link dated 2013.

    5th link dated 2016. States "In the United States and much of Europe, the practice of live-plucking feathers from birds is banned."

    6th link - The Daily Mail is the 2nd earliest 28/11/2012.

    No idea what the current situation is.
    Does anyone else?
    Maybe the OP could return to the thread and tell us what prompted him/her to start the thread.

    I agree it's a dreadfully cruel process (as is lots of other animal related things).

    I would always check before I bought.

    Hence my earlier comment about owl feathers from this thread, I posted on 8/11/2017:
    Meant to say earlier on that I saw a 'puffer' jacket in BHF.
    It said something like 'super-packable' and was very lightweight.

    I looked at the label and it was (I think) a man's name that I didn't recognise but it was made in China.

    Label said 90% down and..........10% owl feathers!
    Honestly.

    I've never heard of this before.
    Originally posted by Pollycat
    Note the country of manufacture.

    I would never have bought that coat or anything similar.

    My opinion on PETA hasn't changed.
    • MothballsWallet
    • By MothballsWallet 6th Dec 17, 6:54 PM
    • 11,557 Posts
    • 15,152 Thanks
    MothballsWallet
    PETA's second in command, Mary Beth Sweetman, is a diabetic.

    She is more than happy to take insulin, which was tested and made with animal products, to keep her alive so she can run PETA with Ingrid.

    Also, PETA gave money to the legal defence fund for Rodney Coronado, a convicted arsonist tied to the Animal Liberation Front.

    They gave the money to Rodney's father who, according to his testimony, refused it.
    Always ask yourself one question: What would Gibbs do?
    Married to an immigrant.
    Even my PC is nicknamed "GIBBS".
    • grayme-m
    • By grayme-m 6th Dec 17, 8:39 PM
    • 1,358 Posts
    • 822 Thanks
    grayme-m
    Had time to look at those links.
    Some seem to be old, ranging from 2012
    Plucking of live birds seems to be mainly in Poland, China, Hungary.

    IKEA and Patagonia are duvet brands who (at the time of the article in Jan 2012 anyway) "have taken a firm stance on the issue and are transparent about exactly how the down and feathers in their products was harvested".

    Debenhams, TKMaxx, Selfridges, The White Company & Argos are all doing various positive things about not using down from live plucked or force-fed birds.
    Duvets are mentioned specifically, not sure if this extends to coats/jackets.

    3rd link is run by an Aussie and gives recommendations for products available in Australia.

    4th link dated 2013.

    5th link dated 2016. States "In the United States and much of Europe, the practice of live-plucking feathers from birds is banned."

    6th link - The Daily Mail is the 2nd earliest 28/11/2012.

    No idea what the current situation is.
    Does anyone else?
    Maybe the OP could return to the thread and tell us what prompted him/her to start the thread.

    I agree it's a dreadfully cruel process (as is lots of other animal related things).

    I would always check before I bought.

    Hence my earlier comment about owl feathers from this thread, I posted on 8/11/2017:

    Note the country of manufacture.

    I would never have bought that coat or anything similar.

    My opinion on PETA hasn't changed.
    Originally posted by Pollycat
    Can't argue with any of that.

    I'll move on now as it's gone back to PETA itself.
    Toyota - 'Always a better way', avoid buying Toyota.
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 6th Dec 17, 11:38 PM
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    • 47,763 Thanks
    Pollycat
    Can't argue with any of that.

    I'll move on now as it's gone back to PETA itself.
    Originally posted by grayme-m
    I don't think it really has gone back to PETA.
    It's just unfortunate that the OP used a link to that organisation as some people clearly don't have a high opinion of them.

    I'm quite interested to know what the current situation is with this 'live plucking'.
    Are companies signing up to the 'no live plucking' or was it just lip service when it was brought out in the open 5 or so years ago?
    I know M&S sell feather/down coats, I might see what the label says next time I'm near.
    Last edited by Pollycat; 07-12-2017 at 8:17 AM.
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 7th Dec 17, 8:43 AM
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    Pollycat
    This is a current link (Nov 2017) listing brands that 'are ditching down' - not just using non-live plucking:
    https://www.peta.org.uk/blog/major-brands-ditching-down/
    I know it's PETA but I thought it interesting.

    Of course, being cynical, there are some companies on there that possibly wouldn't be using down anyway.
    I'm nor sure if Doc Marten have any products that include down.

    M&S do a range of different down & feather coats & jackets but don't say anything on their website about how the down is obtained.
    • grayme-m
    • By grayme-m 7th Dec 17, 8:54 AM
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    grayme-m
    I was referring to MothballsWallet's post which was about PETA.

    M&S claim they do not use live plucking or foie gras: https://corporate.marksandspencer.com/documents/plan-a-2015/general-merchandise-animal-welfare-policy.pdf

    http://www.ethicalconsumer.org seems to do a comprehensive review of retailers, however I haven't confirmed their authority or independence.

    It would seem very few companies are using live plucking these days.
    Toyota - 'Always a better way', avoid buying Toyota.
    • forgotmyname
    • By forgotmyname 7th Dec 17, 9:15 AM
    • 26,207 Posts
    • 10,461 Thanks
    forgotmyname
    Think someone was a few years too late starting this thread.

    If the OP wants something to really get worked up about, I have watched a documentary with secret camera's in China where a large open market had dogs hanging up alive and being skinned.

    Now that would be something to bring to peoples attention, but you couldnt show people pictures of it.

    Its not something you can unsee.
    Punctuation, Spelling and Grammar will be used sparingly. Due to rising costs of inflation.

    My contribution to MSE. Other contributions will only be used if they cost me nothing.

    Due to me being a tight git.
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